Mother moving to Continuing Care Retirement--Sister Against

[MBAustin]

Tough situation, Jo Ann. You mentioned that your mother has a cousin and some friends at the CCRC - any chance you could take her for some visits? A trial week would be even better but just getting her to eat some meals, participate in some activities, etc., might help. Also people in CCRCs don't have to give up driving - they just don't need to do it as much. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[golftrek]

A bit of encouraging news--we have had a snow storm in our state and most of us have been stuck inside for a few days (including myself). I talked with my mother this morning (I try to talk to her everyday) and she said my sister who lives nearby to mother brought her a cooked meal last night. Mother has been stuck in her house for several days because of snow and ice so the meal was appreciated. I have never known my sister to do this so maybe sister is stepping up to the plate.

I am not giving up on the CCRC idea. I will keep everyone posted.

My husband and I have our names on the waiting list at a very nice CCRC in our town and we have made up our minds to move there in the next few years, at least by the time we are 70 (we are 65 now). It would ironic if we move into a CCRC before my mother does. Maybe she can come visit us there!

Jo Ann

 

[Walt34]

Do they offer test weeks? That helped my mom a lot to take the decision. She could find out how life would be there and loved it directly.

That's a great idea to overcome any resistance from relatives and the potential new resident.

My mother lived in a CCRC for a bit over 11 years and except for the last year when health took a serious downturn she loved it. She cried when the house she'd lived in for 40 years was sold but six months later said of the move "I should have done this ten years sooner!" Being very pragmatic and seeing how her sister in Buffalo had to take care of their mother who had Alzheimer's, she didn't want put that burden on any of her kids. I was very grateful she was that forward looking.

She was in assisted living for the last six months of her life. I was impressed with the facility and the staff, and seeing how well she fared in the CCRC made me a fan. We are also on a waiting list for one that has SF homes and apartments and the full range of care if needed.

FIL, however, waited far too long in his SF house and became somewhat of a burden to DW. She had no resentment, but I sure did because of his refusal to face the reality that he had neither the income nor the ability to maintain the place. Finally it became clear even to him that he couldn't stay there.

 

[Bamaman]

My mother was in a CCRC for about 2 years. The facility was brand new and very plush. They had pools, walking paths, crafts rooms, a bar and a couple of restaurants. The dining room was the nicest restaurant in a city of 1 million people, and the chef was Dutch. They had full nursing care when and if it was needed. And the almost 300 people with apartments there were a very social bunch.

We had to pay $177K "security fee" to get her in, and it was about $2000 per month including 40 meals monthly. My mother fell and broke a hip, and we then had 24 hour caretakers watching over her. She still had her car and was chaufferred around.

While my mother was very anxious about moving from her old luxury apartment, she shortly was very happy living in this beautiful place.

Our problem was that $12 per hour help 24 hours per day cost $105K per year--not including $2,000 monthly rent and extensive healthcare costs (even with good insurance.)

In her 2 years in CCRC, she was really going through her money, and we were having a very difficult time trying to decide how to fund her care. And suddenly, Mom passed away suddenly and she had no idea she was down to $5K cash.

We're certainly not complaining about her care or how happy my mother was. I just wanted for those reading this to understand what's involved with some CCRC's. We were very thankful to receive 90% of our $177K security deposit into the estate. And the level of service at the CCRC was absolutely superior in every way. It sure beat 2 years of full nursing home care my mother's sister had until her death at 99 years and 9 months.

 

[bmcgonig]

My mother was in a CCRC for about 2 years. The facility was brand new and very plush. They had pools, walking paths, crafts rooms, a bar and a couple of restaurants. The dining room was the nicest restaurant in a city of 1 million people, and the chef was Dutch. They had full nursing care when and if it was needed. And the almost 300 people with apartments there were a very social bunch.

We had to pay $177K "security fee" to get her in, and it was about $2000 per month including 40 meals monthly. My mother fell and broke a hip, and we then had 24 hour caretakers watching over her. She still had her car and was chaufferred around.

While my mother was very anxious about moving from her old luxury apartment, she shortly was very happy living in this beautiful place.

Our problem was that $12 per hour help 24 hours per day cost $105K per year--not including $2,000 monthly rent and extensive healthcare costs (even with good insurance.)

In her 2 years in CCRC, she was really going through her money, and we were having a very difficult time trying to decide how to fund her care. And suddenly, Mom passed away suddenly and she had no idea she was down to $5K cash.

We're certainly not complaining about her care or how happy my mother was. I just wanted for those reading this to understand what's involved with some CCRC's. We were very thankful to receive 90% of our $177K security deposit into the estate. And the level of service at the CCRC was absolutely superior in every way. It sure beat 2 years of full nursing home care my mother's sister had until her death at 99 years and 9 months.

Some CCRCs will charge a higher monthly fee but it doesn't go up as you move from independent to assisted living to nursing home.

 

[Texas Proud]

Tough situation, Jo Ann. You mentioned that your mother has a cousin and some friends at the CCRC - any chance you could take her for some visits? A trial week would be even better but just getting her to eat some meals, participate in some activities, etc., might help. Also people in CCRCs don't have to give up driving - they just don't need to do it as much. Good luck and keep us posted.

Also, just see if they have a room to rent... the few I have seen said there are rooms to rent for family to come and visit... so, just rent the room for a day or two and let her stay and see what it is like... do not have to try and get her to agree to a week...

 

[Texas Proud]

My mother was in a CCRC for about 2 years. The facility was brand new and very plush. They had pools, walking paths, crafts rooms, a bar and a couple of restaurants. The dining room was the nicest restaurant in a city of 1 million people, and the chef was Dutch. They had full nursing care when and if it was needed. And the almost 300 people with apartments there were a very social bunch.

We had to pay $177K "security fee" to get her in, and it was about $2000 per month including 40 meals monthly. My mother fell and broke a hip, and we then had 24 hour caretakers watching over her. She still had her car and was chaufferred around.

While my mother was very anxious about moving from her old luxury apartment, she shortly was very happy living in this beautiful place.

Our problem was that $12 per hour help 24 hours per day cost $105K per year--not including $2,000 monthly rent and extensive healthcare costs (even with good insurance.)

In her 2 years in CCRC, she was really going through her money, and we were having a very difficult time trying to decide how to fund her care. And suddenly, Mom passed away suddenly and she had no idea she was down to $5K cash.

We're certainly not complaining about her care or how happy my mother was. I just wanted for those reading this to understand what's involved with some CCRC's. We were very thankful to receive 90% of our $177K security deposit into the estate. And the level of service at the CCRC was absolutely superior in every way. It sure beat 2 years of full nursing home care my mother's sister had until her death at 99 years and 9 months.

Just curious... if she ran out of money and you did not fund it... would she be able to stay

If she were able to stay, do they take the payments out of the deposit It looks like you have 7+ years 'prepaid'....

 

[imoldernu]

FWIW...
Links to 3 posts about my outlook on CCRC's. We moved into our "CCRC" Villa at age 68... 12 years ago. As we still live in a regular 1600sf villa home, it's not so different from living in a non age related facility. In fact our home is in a somewhat "upscale" area of town. For the first 9 years we split our time between here Illinois and Florida, but now staying north.
Since we have integrated into the CCRC community, we spend many social hours in the function rooms in the main building, and totally enjoy the many friends who line in the apartments (independent living) and those who live in the assisted living section.

Important to understand the difference between independent, assisted, nursing and memory quarters.

I would encourage those who haven't looked at or been familiar with CCRC's to look check out our "Liberty Village Peru IL " description... You won't move here, but gives an overview of a full function CCRC. It is probably in the midrange of costs, and does not require the "endowment" or "security deposit" up front cost.
............
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/sharing-23-years-of-frugal-retirement-62251-3.html#post1767928

Posts #254, #258 and #282

 

[Taxman59]

Instead, what popped into my mind was "birth order issues." I'm the youngest of 3 widely-spaced siblings. Even as aging adults, oldest kid still pretends to authority, youngest resists being talked down to, while elderly middle kid asserts self loudly and long.

For us (three DS and me, the youngest), we have settled into different roles. The oldest is a nurse, she handles the medical issues for Mom, I am the youngest, a CPA and planner, I handle the taxes and financial decisions, 3rd sis is an attorney, and lives in town, she handles the day to day issues, acts as chauffer and confidant to Mom, and watches out on the legal end. The only "birth order" issue is the second oldest DS. She was a teacher, and she tends to assert herself into the role of eldest daughter. That doesn't work as Mom and the other siblings all talk and work together to come to a mutual decision.

My gut tells me this is a combination of $$ and power. Your sister thinks that if she can protect Mom from the evil retirement warehouse, she will gain power with Mom and save an inheritance.

 

[ivinsfan]

But really who knows what is causing your sister to react this way. Perhaps she takes the idea of the move as implied criticism of her..as in you all think she doesn't care or hasn't been caring for your Mom. Perhaps she has done most of the hands on care and thinks you guys swooped in behind her back with a "better idea". And last perhaps she always "wanted" to do more for her Mom but everyday life interfered as it has a way of doing and feels remorse that she didn't step up and wants to try harder.

I think writing it off as a money problem isn't very kind until you all talk about this some more.

 

[audreyh1]

I wonder whatever happened? And if mom did move into the CCRC? I guess we haven’t heard from Golftrek in a while?

 

[kimcdougc]

I wonder whatever happened? And if mom did move into the CCRC? I guess we haven’t heard from Golftrek in a while?

I was wondering the samething.

 

[audreyh1]

I was wondering the samething.

I also sent a PM. I hope she’ll get back to us.

 

[gretah]

...When I faced sibling issues while helping my mother, I saw there was no point in arguing, as they would never see it my way, and arguing the case with mom present only created more stress for her. I took her to see a geriatric psychiatrist and met with her GP, discussing it with both. With their support in hand, when it came time to talk with the siblings it wasn't my opinion, it was the physicians, that ruled the day, and when the siblings chose to discuss it with mom, all I needed to do was remind (and reassure) her I was just helping carry out the plan discussed with her doctors.

Good on you, MichaelB! This is what I should have done with my mother and siblings. It would have saved me a lot of nasty phone calls. My siblings wanted to argue but didn't want to do anything. Awful. But I got Mum into an Assisted Living home and it all worked out fine

Now Case Managers or Geriatric Managers can be hired to have someone medically assess Mum and help her (and the family) put together a care and residence plan. It's like Hospice for well people. These Managers know all the retirement residence facilities and can give recommendations for which is best for Mum. Hospice offices can usually refer you to these Managers.

I'm in the process of writing out my own plan and "what if" contingencies. I want to make decisions over where I live and when. And my new PoAs will be Springing ones. (My plans involve moving to a CCRC when in my 70s. I love the idea of not losing friends as I need more medical care since I'll live on one campus during all stages.)