New Car Buying Hasn't Changed

[trirod]

Yep, same old stuff, different day....Some day down the road when conditions change, it will be a buyer's market again and they'll be begging people to take them. I'm waiting to buy until after the insanity dies down.

Not sure what's worse on that image - the $50,000 market adjustment or $495 for nitrogen fill!

 

[HF63]

I have avoided the itch for a new car because I hate, hate dealing w/sales guys.


I am not smart enough to get a good deal but smart enough to fixed my old clunkers so they just keep on rolling.

 

[Car-Guy]

Not sure what's worse on that image - the $50,000 market adjustment or $495 for nitrogen fill!

I actually bought one of those (TRX) back in August... At that time they were asking 10k to 50k over sticker depending on where you were in the country becasue of high demand and short supply. (Still that way today).... I bought mine off the showroom floor from a dealer here in Texas VIA Internet negotiations. Basically got if for an even trade for my used car which had appreciated in value in the last year. Love the truck!

 

[Dash man]

I had done my research and went to dealers to test drive vehicle models before I made my decision. Once I decided I searched for the exact car I wanted and it didn’t exist. So I started emailing dealers with my specifications and said I was willing to place an order and gave them the price I was willing to pay along with the info on my trade in and what I wanted for it. This was last January and the chip shortage hadn’t kicked in yet. After a week of back and forth I was down to one dealer and we agreed on a deal, pending inspection of my trade in. I expected them to try to further reduce the price of the trade in and had set my walk away price, which was an offer from CarMax. They surprised me and beat CarMax by a few hundred dollars and I completed the order on the car. It took seven weeks to arrive from Germany and I was given updates along the way. Ultimately I got the vehicle for about $9k under MSRP and it had everything I wanted. My salesman was in the hospital with Covid for two weeks during this process, but fortunately recovered. Though he says he’s still not 100%.

 

[freedomatlast]

I actually bought one of those (TRX) back in August... At that time they were asking 10k to 50k over sticker depending on where you were in the country.... I bought mine off the showroom floor from a dealer here in Texas VIA Internet negotiations. Basically got if for an even trade for my used car which had appreciated in value in the last year. Love the truck!

What did you trade, your Trackhawk?

 

[Car-Guy]

What did you trade, your Trackhawk?

Yes... Loved the Trackhawk too but it had over 30k miles on it so it was time.

 

[freedomatlast]

Yes... Loved the Trackhawk too but it had over 30k miles on it so it was time.

Enjoy!

 

[mystang52]

I generally have pretty good experience avoiding the hassles with dealers. I’ve been trying to get DW to get a full size SUV but she’s too frugal. I found a certified used vehicle I thought she’d like. The interior color we like isn’t available on the current year models. We drove 45 miles to check it out and it generally met our expectations. After a test drive the salesman and sales manager started doing their dance but I interrupted to ask for the “out the door” price. They would not give me a total price including all the fees. I asked three times and they’d say “x +y +z “ which were ballpark figures. Nothing in writing. I assume they figured they could find someone else to pay more. I didn’t push because DW wants a different exterior color anyway. I had a voucher from the Credit Union I was prepared to use. I see they have now lowered the advertised price which does not include some accessories that are already installed. I think they’ve had it on their lot for >90 days now.

OP here. DW wanted a car (SUV) to replace her excellent condition sedan. So, we didn't NEED a car. We checked a few different brands, but admittedly DW was highly partial to the Lexus RX from the get-go. After in-person shopping at dealers I was also working with 2 Lexus dealers via Internet. I NEVER could get an out the door price from either. Their responses were classical examples of obfuscation, even after one time having made a specific dollar offer.

 

[brett]

The best deal I got on a new car was years ago.

I walked out of the sales manager's office. He called the next day and we did the deal. At the right price.

That is why some dealers do not like internet sales. So easy for the customer to walk. And to shop. Locally, and outside the trading area.

 

[travelover]

...... I NEVER could get an out the door price from either. Their responses were classical examples of obfuscation, even after one time having made a specific dollar offer.

Be careful, you might give car salesmen a bad name.

 

[dixonge]

What you did even a year ago, much less further back, doesn’t apply at the moment unless you buy a make/model that’s very unpopular (aren’t many) - there are waiting lists for more models than not. Dealers don’t have as many cars, and demand is high, so they’re adding “market adjustment” charges and/or loading them up with every dealer option they can think of.

The car we wanted existed in only maybe 4-5 dealers in the entire state of Texas. The covid scarcity was in full force. Yes, it is worse now, but it was already difficult in the summer of 2020. The same for our RV. Massive RV lots had maybe 3 used units. We paid double what I was expecting and were happy to get what we got.

 

[braumeister]

Normally, DW would have been shopping for a new car about now, but her transmission suddenly disintegrated back in March so we went ahead then.

She picked an extremely popular model, and there was still good availability at that time. Even got a few percent off the MSRP, so right now I'm considering that we got very lucky despite the awkward situation at the time.

The stories I'm hearing right now are just incredible and I have so much sympathy for those who are going through the car buying experience at this time.

 

[Bamaman]

2021 is not a normal year for automobiles/trucks, and who knows if the car business will ever revert to doing business like they have the past 10-15 years. That may be a good thing.

I read the other day that new car dealerships may have far fewer cars in stock in the future--45-60 day supply (which is sufficient.) I look to low APR and sales incentives to be reduced and stabilized. Customers may have to special order vehicles in the future.

Car dealerships have always been very competitive amongst each other--always to try to get the "ups" on each other. But every city will have one low gross profit dealership willing to sell at relatively low prices. The trick is figuring out which dealers sell cheap.

I prefer to deal with home owned dealerships--and not those national chain stores. Big chain dealerships are high pressure places to work, and employee turnover is the norm for both salesmen and sales managers. I want to deal with one salesman and go back in 4 years and deal with him again. And I refuse to buy from any dealership with secondary window stickers and $699 Documentation Fees.

I've been disappointed to see auto manufacturers being so greedy--watching prices go up year after year. Supposedly the average MSRP of a car/truck sold now is $46K. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to pay $65K for a pickup truck. My wife and I are buying cheaper cars now than in the past--going contra to the current trends. In ER, we're after higher mpg and durability--no mechanical repairs.

I start by telling the salesman and/or sales manager about my 24 years in the automobile business. I'm telling them in a round about way that I'm on to their tricks and don't jerk me around. And they usually shoot me straight.

Fortunately, I still know quite a few people in the car business from years past. And some of those dealers I know have numerous franchises. I'm not complaining about the vehicles and dealer practices of those i've been dealing with in recent years. And I'm thankful I have a 2021 hybrid and 2020 pickup truck and won't have to buy any vehicle anytime soon.

 

[Dash man]

A few years ago we wanted to buy a car for our son and DDIL that just had twins. It was late 2018 and a Hyundai dealer had some loaner cars they were selling. I went to the dealership to see the car and negotiated what I felt was a good price. But the deal was contingent on the kids wanting the car. The next day we brought everyone to the dealership to look at the car. When the sales person and her manager saw the twins, they reduced the price of the car another $1500. They’re not all bad!

 

[JoeWras]

I read the other day that new car dealerships may have far fewer cars in stock in the future--45-60 day supply (which is sufficient.) I look to low APR and sales incentives to be reduced and stabilized. Customers may have to special order vehicles in the future.

Yeah, I read that opinion too.

I believe for the next few years, this will be true. However, it will eventually return to having over supply on the lot. The dealers and manufacturers are currently drunk on the idea of short supplying the customers. There is "forced collusion" due to the supply chain issues. Now they can make $50k market adjustments and sell paint protectors for 4000% profit.

We've seen this work before. In the 70s, OPEC very effectively colluded to short the world of oil. Prices skyrocketed. The promise was to do it forever.

Did it work? Yes, for a while. But eventually, some players cracked. New players sprung up. Dormant players came to life. They dramatically ruined the party in 1986.

The auto industry is not a cartel - yet. So a decade long short just won't happen unless the supply chain issue lasts 10 years. Do we think that will happen? Any overt collusion will bring down the Feds on them. Someone will find extra supply and take a few hundred off to become The Big Dealer In The City. The manufacturers will incentivize volume as they always have.

Or alternatively, interest rates will dramatically rise and cars will be out of reach for many. This could cause the current short crisis to resolve even faster than a few years.

They can say they'll only keep a 45 day supply and force customers into ordering -- until the customer decides to go down the road and happen to find the car that's "close enough." Then that dealer will want more inventory. Likewise, the manufacturers will lose customers to brand switching if it is easier to buy a Ford over a Chevy. And so on...

 

[Midpack]

The car we wanted existed in only maybe 4-5 dealers in the entire state of Texas. The covid scarcity was in full force. Yes, it is worse now, but it was already difficult in the summer of 2020. The same for our RV. Massive RV lots had maybe 3 used units. We paid double what I was expecting and were happy to get what we got.

The car I wanted wasn’t available at all within 500 miles. There were some like it “at sea” but a month out, I put a deposit on one, and the dealer assured me it was mine. They’d worked out a dealer trade, and already written a check to the other dealer, which they’d cashed. Two weeks later, about two weeks from the date I was supposed to get the car - my dealer calls and says the owner of the other dealership sold my car to a buddy of his. He was told by his sales manager we’d already paid for the car and he said “I don’t care, I sold it to my buddy.”

I kept watching inventory at other dealers and passed on two other cars “at sea” that I could have put a deposit on, because I’d been told I had a lock on my car.

So I ended up buying my third choice, another model entirely, at over MSRP. It was that, or no car for at least a month. Now is the worst time to buy a car that I’ve ever seen…

 

[Car-Guy]

The car I wanted wasn’t available at all within 500 miles. There were some like it “at sea” but a month out, I put a deposit on one, and the dealer assured me it was mine. They’d worked out a dealer trade, and already written a check to the other dealer, which they’d cashed. Two weeks later, about two weeks from the date I was supposed to get the car - my dealer calls and says the owner of the other dealership sold my car to a buddy of his. He was told by his sales manager we’d already paid for the car and he said “I don’t care, I sold it to my buddy.”

I kept watching inventory at other dealers and passed on two other cars “at sea” that I could have put a deposit on, because I’d been told I had a lock on my car.

So I ended up buying my third choice, another model entirely. Now is the worst time to buy a car that I’ve ever seen…

Well that's what they told you (bold text by me)...That's possible but my "guess" is that they sold it to some who paid a lot more... May have been your dealer or the other dealership, but someone made more money... And that's all they care about.

 

[Midpack]

Well that's what they told you (bold text by me)...That's possible but my "guess" is that they sold it to some who paid a lot more... May have been your dealer or the other dealership, but someone made more money... And that's all they care about.

Maybe but I doubt it. I had the VIN number, searched daily to track the car, and it appeared in the inventory of the other dealer, about 150 miles away. It was never assigned to my dealer as far as I can tell, but you may know more about how it all works.

 

[JoeWras]

My first car purchase involved putting down a payment and arranging to pick it up 2 days later after gathering my finances.

I arrive 2 days later and the car was "accidentally sold... but we have this nice Griswold-Mobile over here..."

Walked out of there and bought at a much better place. My deposit was held on to exactly 29 days, 1 day short of the expiration of that state's law.

I will never believe a word that a dealer spews concerning this situation. It is all BS.

 

[Car-Guy]

^^^^^
I've heard about these delay/cancellation tactics on a couple of the car forums I have been visiting for years... The story seems to change to fit the situation;


Examples and (my translations)

Accidentally sold, (someone paid more)
Reallocated (whatever that means)
Held up at the factory (someone screwed up the paper work)
Damaged in shipment (that does happen but if it is minor, they'll fix it without telling you)
Supply chain disruptions (sounds legitimate at this time, to me anyway)

OTOH, sometimes delays are as advertised (stuff happens) but it seems "most" people eventually get what they ordered... For me, I just buy what's off the lot... If I can't find something close enough to what I want at one dealership, there's another down the road. On-line dealership inventories has made that process so much easier.


YM(and opinion)MV

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

What you did even a year ago, much less further back, doesn’t apply at the moment unless you buy a make/model that’s very unpopular (aren’t many) - there are waiting lists for more models than not. Dealers don’t have as many cars, and demand is high, so they’re adding “market adjustment” charges and/or loading them up with every dealer option they can think of. I’ve been buying cars for 45 years, paid (much) less than MSRP every time - but you can’t do that today in 90%+ of situations.

Though there’s no haggling on Teslas, they’ve jacked up prices on most models by $10K or more in the past year and waiting lists are many months out. I looked into buying a Model Y in Nov, prices are up $10K and deliveries are out to Jun to Oct depending on model. So that’s useless for now…

This. I think it's entertaining when someone brags about "getting a great deal" on a new car. No, you might think you did...but they still are making money. You may have gotten a FAIR deal, but no one is pulling one over on a new car dealer.

We are not in the market for a car, but we aren't seeing many reasons to buy a brand new car. When things aren't crazy, there are decent deals on used cars that can save folks thousands of dollars. Of course, some of us don't have to worry about saving a few thousand dollars or just prefer new...but we just don't see that there is too much of an advantage to paying a premium for brand new.

 

[freedomatlast]

Well that's what they told you (bold text by me)...That's possible but my "guess" is that they sold it to some who paid a lot more... May have been your dealer or the other dealership, but someone made more money... And that's all they care about.

That's exactly what I was thinking as I read that. With this shortage, we're seeing again the dealers prioritizing a little extra profit today, over longer term positive potentially life long relationships with customers in the future.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

That's exactly what I was thinking as I read that. With this shortage we're seeing again the dealers prioritizing a little extra profit today, over longer term positive life long relationships with customers.

Dealers and salesmen seldom have a reason to look past the day your check clears. Car salesmen generally are gypsies, moving between dealers (and industries) freely. Even ownership of car stores changes fairly often.

 

[Fermion]

That's exactly what I was thinking as I read that. With this shortage we're seeing again the dealers prioritizing a little extra profit today, over longer term positive life long relationships with customers.

Yeah that didn't seem to stop the hardware stores from selling OSB for $70 a sheet

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Dealers and salesmen seldom have a reason to look past the day your check clears. Car salesmen generally are gypsies, moving between dealers (and industries) freely. Even ownership of car stores changes fairly often.

We had a local Ford dealer that had been around for years just change ownership. It's now a proper name like PETER GIBBONS FORD (not the actual name). Much of their advertising has been along the lines of "PETER WILL GET YOU THE BEST DEAL EVER!" I was curious as to who this character is and for the life of me, I couldn't make a definite determination that it's even an actual person. They also have one of the worst logos I have ever seen...the stickers they put on the back of the car are VERY LARGE and just the initials PGF...probably a good 10"x8".