Obama Speech on Race

[JB]

I'm curious to hear what the Obama critics think of McCain making amends with Jerry Falwell, going so far as giving the commencement speech at Liberty U, after calling him an 'agent of intolerance' in 2000.

 

[haha]

Will he advocate racially based affirmative action? Or will he favor and support programs that benefit needy, underserved, citizens of all skin colors?

Who is his core support, blacks or whites?

How could there be affirmative action for everyone? That is called no afffirmative action.

Affirmative action by definition is re-norming the merit bases rules for some specially defined group. We have welfare for poor people of all races; be have affirmative action for all people, poor, middle class, and rich, as long as they are defined as belonging to some special groups which as far as I know are defined in the affirmative action laws by assigned race.

A wealth black businessman will get affimative action for example if he is bidding for spectrum or government construction jobs. A cracker with a pick-up truck will be out of luck.

Ha

 

[chinaco]

I am not supporting Obama for President, but neither do I support the idea of tearing him down as a person. I do not think it is right to render him down to a handful of vitriolic statements made by his angry pastor.

If this story had broken 2 months ago do you thin Obama would have won the delegates he has won?

The Dems may be caught in a trap. An unelectable candidate. It looks like there are not enough delegates left where Hillary can catch up. It looks like Florida and Michigan are not going to have a redo. If the Super Delegates move from Obama to Hillary... it will be painted as a racist and prejudiced move.

It seems that Hillary and McCain are not touching this thing with a 10 foot pole. I don't blame them... they would likely be painted as racist by someone.

 

[donheff]

DW and I have been going to the same church for many years. A few years ago the first Harry Potter movie came out and the pastor railed against withcraft and tried to tell us how the movies were trying to recruit our children to paganism.

Maybe he was just mixed up. If he had picked on The Golden Compass, he would have been right - or close to.

 

[dex]

"I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother - a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe."

Did he really need to throw his grandmother under the bus to make a point? Couldn't he at least have said - ... that made me cringe but I now understand that she was also a victum of the racisim of the times.
Didn't any of his black relatives say things that made him cringe?

I don't think the senator is the unifier people are projecting him to be.

 

[dex]

DW and I have been going to the same church for many years. A few years ago the first Harry Potter movie came out and the pastor railed against withcraft and tried to tell us how the movies were trying to recruit our children to paganism. We rolled our eyes and continued with our lives. But we still go to the church and still consider the pastor a friend. I guess if I ever run for office I'll be scrutinized for this?

My father-in-law uses phrases like "Cheech and Kong" when he sees a Hispanic and an African-American walking or driving together. It makes me want to throw up, but I still "closely associate" with him.

I'd be curious to hear from anyone who really, in their heart of hearts, seriously considered voting for Mr. Obama but now have decided to vote for Hillary/McCain. I'd like to hear what you liked about him before you tell me why this pushed you away from him.

You are equating a statement about Harry Potter with the racists ones such as whites developed aids to kill blacks?

Before you ask others for something maybe you should make the case that the statements the pastor made are not that bad and the senator was wrong to denounced them. How about it?

 

[HFWR]

A cracker with a pick-up truck will be out of luck.

Ha

Well, I'm screwed...

 

[TeeRuh]

Whites have these people, too, but they are less tolerated, so they stay underground. They may be preaching in some church in the backwaters and handling snakes at revival meetings, but they aren't preaching in large urban churches.

Perhaps. What I do know is that any church this overt about its politics and about political issues should lose its tax exemption.

Jerry Falwell, Rush Limbaugh, John Hagee, Pat Robertson, ... (I know, Rush is not an ordained preacher ...) Some are not so underground ... I agree that some of these churches should lose their tax exemptions.

I thought Obama's speech was probably one of the best ever, certainly a great commentary on the black experience and visionary on why we are where we are and what changes in mindsets would be needed to move forward. (Not to imply we haven't moved forward; move forward faster?) I doubt that many who are really upset with Wright's comments (justifiably so) will bother to read or listen to the speech and therefore will not change their hate rhetoric.

t.r.

 

[FinanceDude]

Jerry Falwell, Rush Limbaugh, John Hagee, Pat Robertson, ... (I know, Rush is not an ordained preacher ...) Some are not so underground ... I agree that some of these churches should lose their tax exemptions.

To include Rush in that group is silly.........

I thought Obama's speech was probably one of the best ever, certainly a great commentary on the black experience and visionary on why we are where we are and what changes in mindsets would be needed to move forward. (Not to imply we haven't moved forward; move forward faster?) I doubt that many who are really upset with Wright's comments (justifiably so) will bother to read or listen to the speech and therefore will not change their hate rhetoric.

I read and listened to the speech, and while I will give props to Obama as a great orator, I didn't see much else to be excited about. Clearly the speech was meant for Caucasian moderate Republican voters like me, but it didn't work for me as a voter.......sorry.......

BTW, I am not rascist........

t.r.[/quote]

 

[TeeRuh]

That's racist; but it's only a word ...

 

[dex]

I thought Obama's speech was probably one of the best ever, certainly a great commentary on the black experience and visionary on why we are where we are and what changes in mindsets would be needed to move forward. (Not to imply we haven't moved forward; move forward faster?) I doubt that many who are really upset with Wright's comments (justifiably so) will bother to read or listen to the speech and therefore will not change their hate rhetoric.

t.r.

Can you point me to the part of the speech where he states "what changes in mindsets would be needed..."

If you can tell me what specific policies he would enact to address the issuses I would apprciate it. I've searched and could not find them.

I watched the whole speech live on line.

 

[FinanceDude]

Can you point me to the part of the speech where he states "what changes in mindsets would be needed..."

If you can tell me what specific policies he would enact to address the issuses I would apprciate it. I've searched and could not find them.

I watched the whole speech live on line.

Obama talks a great game, it's the implementation plan that he gets hung up on. He better have a STRONG VP candidate if he wants to win in November.......

 

[ziggy29]

I read and listened to the speech, and while I will give props to Obama as a great orator, I didn't see much else to be excited about. Clearly the speech was meant for Caucasian moderate Republican voters like me, but it didn't work for me as a voter.......sorry.......

That's the thing about Obama. He's so long on eloquence and hope and unity that people desperately want to believe he can deliver this. But over and over again, he's short on specifics. I can't stand the Clintons, but at least Hillary provides some specifics.

His words make people feel good and hopeful. He's not the first person out there to do that. JFK did that. Reagan did that. To some degree, Bill Clinton did that. But words have to be backed by actions, and to date, I know very little about what actions a President Obama would take in order to turn these hopes into realities.

 

[TromboneAl]

Two things struck me:

First, the pastor thing should be a non-issue, and would be except that the media found something that could be whipped up into a big deal, increase viewers, and sell more commercials.

Second, I wonder what percentage of voters saw the Obama speech. In 1952, there were three (?) networks, and I'll bet that a lot of people watched the Nixon checkers speech. Today there are hundreds of channels, most people don't watch the news, and what they do watch concerns Britney Spears or Dupre.

 

[TeeRuh]

Can you point me to the part of the speech where he states "what changes in mindsets would be needed..."

If you can tell me what specific policies he would enact to address the issuses I would apprciate it. I've searched and could not find them.

"Changes in mindsets" (my term, not Obama's) in my thought are throughout the speech; he's just asking people to be more open minded:

I believe deeply that we cannot solve the challenges of our time unless we solve them together - unless we perfect our union by understanding that we may have different stories, but we hold common hopes; that we may not look the same and we may not have come from the same place, but we all want to move in the same direction - towards a better future for of children and our grandchildren.

The fact is that the comments that have been made and the issues that have surfaced over the last few weeks reflect the complexities of race in this country that we've never really worked through - a part of our union that we have yet to perfect. And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together and solve challenges like health care, or education, or the need to find good jobs for every American.

In the end, then, what is called for is nothing more, and nothing less, than what all the world's great religions demand - that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us. Let us be our brother's keeper, Scripture tells us. Let us be our sister's keeper. Let us find that common stake we all have in one another, and let our politics reflect that spirit as well.

The second part is not so easy (specific policies). That is clearly Obama's primary weakness and why I'm still not sure I'm ready to support him. But then again this speech was to address a particular topic; his relationship with his outspoken pastor; and I think he addresses that fairly clearly.

t.r.

 

[poboy]

I don't think Obama will visit Pastor Manning's church any time soon.

 

[tricky88]

I don't normally read or reply to posts on this forum having to do solely with politics. I admire all of you people and value your insight, and I don't want that to be tainted by possibly knowing that I strongly disagree with your political views.

That said, I can't help chiming in a little on this one. I was sorry to see the screamin' cable channels make such a big deal of Obama's affiliation with a church.

Obama's speech was remarkable. Read it sure, but also watch it if you can.
YouTube - Barack Obama: 'A More Perfect Union' (Full Speech)

I have little doubt this will go down as one of the great speeches of our time. It was also a textbook case of what NOT to do in a presidential election. It was long, nuanced, could easily be pulled apart into tiny soundbites to be criticized by Limbaugh and the like. (In fact, he was doing that on air immediately after the speech was given). It was written in paragraphs, not made up of 4 word declarative
sentences like "Racism is bad," as we have been listening to our President give for the past 8 years.

I have been a supporter of this man's campaign since the beginning of the race, and I continue to be now. This speech may not help him at all in the race. I do not think that was a big consideration in him writing this speech though. It was however a wonderful speech , and I'm almost glad the CNNs and FOX stations made such a big deal of Wright so that it gave him an opportunity to give it.

And let's not forget McCain sought the endorsement of John Hagee:
(Text follows from this link)

In all of the Rush Limbaugh-fueled outrage about the comments of Wright, let's not forget about the influential evangelical Pastor John Hagee.
This is the man that Sen. John McCain sought and received the endorsement of. (read story here.)
On Fresh Air in 2006, Terri Gross asked Pastor Hagee, "Do you still think that Katrina is punishment from God for a society that's becoming like Sodom and Gomorrah?"
His answer:
HAGEE: All hurricanes are acts of God, because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they are -- were recipients of the judgment of God for that. The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing. I know that there are people who demur from that, but I believe that the Bible teaches that when you violate the law of God, that God brings punishment sometimes before the day of judgment. And I believe that the Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans.
John McCain on getting Hagee's endorsement, "All I can tell you is I'm very proud to have pastor Hagee's support."
Hear the entire interview with Hagee at NPR:
Pastor John Hagee on Christian Zionism : NPR




OK. No more politics here from me. Thanks.

 

[donheff]

TClearly the speech was meant for Caucasian moderate Republican voters like me, but it didn't work for me as a voter.......sorry.......

BTW, I am not rascist........

t.r.

I don't think he was aiming at you. There is no reason you would hop the fence from McCain. He was aiming at moderate Caucasian Democrats and independents who he could lose to Hillary now and, potentially, to McCain in the fall.

 

[dex]

TeeRuh
Thank you for the reply.
I didn't see them because they are not a change that is needed in my mindset. I have those concepts in my beliefs.

 

[dex]

Two things struck me:

First, the pastor thing should be a non-issue, and would be except that the media found something that could be whipped up into a big deal, increase viewers, and sell more commercials.
.

I agree, Al.
The issue for me is:

1. Pastor Wright brought the senator into the church
2. The Pastor was the leader of the church
3. The has been attending the church for 20 years over which time the pastor's postions which the senator rejected and denounced were expressed
4. The senator did not - until recently - stand up against those sermons that he is now denouncing.
5. The senator made the pastor an advisor for his presidential campaign
6. The senator was married by the pastor and took his children to hear the pastor's offensive sermons.
7. The pastor has been a mentor for the senator

So the issue is: What does this 20 year association and the senator's choices say about his ability to know right from wrong and to stand up against it.

 

[FinanceDude]

Two things struck me:

First, the pastor thing should be a non-issue, and would be except that the media found something that could be whipped up into a big deal, increase viewers, and sell more commercials.

Could be, but Obama is smart enough to know that the average American voter DOES care whether the President of the USA has religious values, and what those values are.

Many voters would NOT be swayed by Obama's relationship with Pastor Wright, but ENOUGH could be to make it an issue...........

The ONLY real issue I have with Obama is the I believe he lied when he said he never personally HEARD any sermons where Pastor Wright spewed anti-American diatribe...........there's no way in 20 YEARS,he wasn't exposed to some of it............

 

[Fireup2020]

I second Laurencewill's statements. I have attended churches regularly where I do not agree with (or even necessarily pay attention to) the sermons/topics/delivery/tones/priest/pastor/fellow parishoners. Does not keep me from there - I am there for MY OWN REASONS, not to listen to the preacher pontificate about things I do not concern myself with. I also have loved ones and plenty of acquaintances who's beliefs are VERY different from mine (race, politics, religion, woes of the world, etc) These individuals do not define me, and to those who think I share such opinions are missing out on what I do offer.

I'm with LW - guess I better not run for office either!

 

[cman609]

My question

I curious how many southern born presidents attended services in southern churches during the heyday of segregation, and heard the preacher go on about negroes being kept in their place. Using the bible to justify slavery and Jim Crow. So much for selective rage.

 

[dex]

These individuals do not define me, and to those who think I share such opinions are missing out on what I do offer.

Longfellow "We judge ourselves by what we are capable of doing while others judge us by what we have already done."

 

[dex]

I curious how many southern born presidents attended services in southern churches during the heyday of segregation, and heard the preacher go on about negroes being kept in their place. Using the bible to justify slavery and Jim Crow. So much for selective rage.

Why wonder; let's not use guilt by "possible" association like others have done with the senator.

The senator and this discussion deserves reasoned discourse.

Here is a good place to start your research.
US Presidents: Lists and Records