Pets. How strong is the bond?

[donheff]

Edit to add: If you don't mind sharing: How much do you spend on your dog annually? I have read/heard of numbers that are multiples of GDP per capita of many many countries.

I missed this in my first post. We have two dogs. The veterinarian fees are probably about $500/year during a typical year. But with a previous Golden we popped for a hip replacement (don't even ask how much that cost). For the last three we have been careful to use only a breeder we know and trust. I don't know what the food costs but it isn't a separate line item in my ER budget.

If you are thinking about getting a pet remember that your ability to travel is significantly impacted.

 

[Sam]

If you are thinking about getting a pet remember that your ability to travel is significantly impacted.

I will heed your advice. Thanks. I'm not (at least I don't think I am) that emotional, so I think the bond will not be as strong for me, but after reading you guys' posts I'm having second thought. Better off staying away from it in the first place, then trying and taking a chance. At this moment, the kids and the house are already impacting travel plans.

Edit to add: One more question: Do veterinarians buy malpractice insurance? If so, do they get sued as often as doctors for human in this country?

 

[Sam]

Edit to add: One more question: Do veterinarians buy malpractice insurance? If so, do they get sued as often as doctors for human in this country?

Never mind. I found the answer.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-03-14-pets-malpractice_x.htm

The largest judgment in favor of a pet owner has been $39,000, which a jury in Orange County, Calif., awarded last year to Marc Bluestone.

His mutt, Shane, died of liver failure after a misdiagnosis. In a verdict that is being appealed by the vet, the jury awarded Bluestone $30,000 for the dog's "unique value" to his owner, and $9,000 for vet bills.


The USA's 64 million pet owners now spend more than $18 billion a year on pet health care, according to the American Veterinary Medical Association, which says that the owner of a typical American dog will spend $11,500 on the animal during its lifetime — half of it on medical care. Pet hospitals now have specialists such as cardiologists, neurologists and oncologists.

 

[Sandy]

Very strong. Routine costs - food, routine vet, toys not so bad and $$ varies with size and type of pet. But it is the destroyed household items and yards, boarding, and emergency and sick care put the costs over the top.

The stories of $$ spent and life adjustments made are too numerous to describe.

As a recent example, when our dog was bitten by a water moccossin in front of the whole family, it was total meltdown time - I grabbed the dog ($1,400 in vet bills - and that was without needing surgery) to the kids - who were screaming and crying hysterically as I drove away. The dog is scarred but fine, BTW.

Then there was my parapalegic cat...

 

[haha]

I am hoping to stay petless in the future. It would require lifestyle changes. With no pet, I will have to find people who will listen when I need to talk, whereas a pet always looks on lovingly while I babble. Also, with no young kids or grandkids, where will I get an outlet for baby talk? The right kind of lover would go fine, but we likely know what a tricky road that can be. If I tried it on my wife at this point she would think I had had a stroke.

Without my dog my walks have changed- more lonesome, but also faster and covering more ground. Over time I hope to find some human walk companions. For some years now my dog has been slowing down, especially in warm weather. But my walking time still went to him, so I got a bit less of health walking. OTOH, it is harder to get myself out in the rain without him. I am lucky to have a nice park a few blocks away. In the morning especially there are a lot of friendly exercise walkers and dog walkers out. Later in the day there are some spectacular skaters out at a new skate-park. There is also a dog shelter. I met a woman who asked me about volunteering there as a walker. I may do that if it won't tie me down too much. Maybe I could be a sub.

There are a few young women here who have huge dogs for protection. They can’t really train them (not enough time) and can’t really control them untrained. I understand their feelings, but would prefer that they get a gun and some training. These huge dogs lunging around are not confidence inspiring. It bothered me when my dog was getting so old and blind and weak, as I didn’t know for sure that I could protect him.

I doubt that anyone here doesn’t know it, but pets live a long time and require a big commitment in time, money and attention. For the pets sake, the family’s sake, and the sake of neighbors and passers-by, pets especially dogs have to be controlled. I would welcome more strict enforcement of ordinances and heftier fines for damage.

Now that I don’t have a dog, I will be looking for a no dogs building. I like to see them, but don’t want to run into somebody’s uncontrolled Rottie or Pit Bull on my way to the trash bin.

Ha

 

[Sundance Kid]

My earlier post got lost.

I recently adopted a 6 yr old Shih Tzu, from the Humane Society. She had been lost and unclaimed and looked like she had been frightened to death. Took her about three days, to adapt to her new environment and now, --She and I are soulmates!

6 months ago, I had to "put down." our beloved Misty. Another Shih Tzu, the most lovable dog I've ever had. She gave us 14 + years of love, affection and companionship. She is deeply missed!!

The new arrival, "Molly," is female. Seven pounds of furball. Timid and shy! Took her three days to get acclimated to her new home. BUT, When she did,----WoW, did she worm her way into my heart! She, is everywhere, that I am. Follows me everywhere! Waits for me, at the door when I go out. Barks and wags her tail, when I come in. Just a total joy, to be around!!

I'll always miss Misty!! But, Molly is my little girl now!! Can't love her enuf!!

 

[janeeyre]

Quite strong. My dog just had to be put down as he had developed an agressive gum tumor. I miss him terribly. He was my special buddy for 14 1/2 years, and I didn't want it to end.

Ha

I understand this pain. Over the last thirty years, we have had two dogs and two cats. I had to put them down when they became ill. It was such a difficult, heart renching experience that I don't think I can have another pet. My husband wants to get another dog, however, after I put our last dog down I swore -- no more animals. My husband and children keep telling me to focus on all the fun years.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

No hausenpfeffer jokes at Hale Nords!

Of course not. Thats strictly a chili item.

 

[Buckeye]

My oldest cat, Calico, turned 19 on April 18th. She is in great shape but I know it's only another couple of years at the most until she is gone. It makes me cry just thinking about it.

 

[calmloki]

My oldest cat, Calico, turned 19 on April 18th. She is in great shape but I know it's only another couple of years at the most until she is gone. It makes me cry just thinking about it.

Our Grandma kitty Little ran out of steam a few months ago - the last day I knew would be her last - predug her grave out near our old savage 3-legged Tiger's grave and let her die here at home. It was odd how the last couple weeks cleaning up after her when she totally missed the litterbox by 5-10' didn't bother me a bit - I'd be telling her it was ok Little honey. Three years ago I had my Mom here at home for her last week and had the ablulance take her to the hospital on her last day. At that time i kept pushing for the Drs. to pump her full of pain meds as her lungs filled up - i wanted her to die as easily as possible. Result was that she was incommunicado. I've taken cats and a dog in and held them while they were put down. I've taken in a cat and turned it over to the vet to be put down. I've killed a few of my own cats, thinking that they deserved to die by my hand if they were to die. It all hurts. People or pets. Probably Little dying fairly easily and naturally here at home was, while longer, one of the better deaths. I wish I had had the stones to let my Mom die here without the benefit of the medical community.

 

[YVR-Terri]

Nice to see I'm not the only one, sometimes people look at me like I'm nuts when I say that I don't want to do too much travelling because of my cat - he's stressed when left alone for long periods. Last time I was out of town for a few days, a neighbor came ba and let him out each morning, and a very understanding and loyal teacher friend came by each afternoon and did her marking at my place so he had company. In between I'm told he wandered around and made friends with all of the neighbours.

I also want to move but I can't find an appropriate place to live. An apartment would not work, he would be miserable cooped up inside all the time. A townhouse in the area I want to live is EXPENSIVE (650K+). A house is not an option (they don't exist). Traffic is also a concern. So I'm stuck until I find a solution.

The irony is, I never chose to have a cat. My ex took him in from a friend of his, and over time I ended up taking care of him. So when the ex moved out (and then left the country shortly afterwards), the cat stayed with me. Of course, I've totally bonded with him now and he's family, but there's also a responsibility there - he depends on me completely.

 

[Celany]

as strong as any human to human bond. I won't be having kids either, so the cats *are* my kids (and I like it that way, I don't want human babies!).

my first cat, elizibeth, was like no other. we don't know where she came from (appeared one cold january morning, sitting on top of the window AC, demanding to be let in) or where she went (went out for a stroll one day, never came back). We believe that she was brought by (and returned to) the aliens.

she was very smart & fiercely loyal to me. she used to sleep under the covers with me, and she'd lick my feet when I was sick. she used to wait for me at the bus stop every day, when I was coming home from school. when I got off, she'd jump up on my shoulder for the walk home (I grew up way out in the country).

there will never be another elizibeth.

my current cat, chloe, is a sweetie pie too. we don't have same intense bond, but we do love each other. she was very aloof when my mom brought her to me (and preggers, to boot!), but she's gotten more snuggly as the years have passed.

I don't know how much I've spent on cats over the years, but it's definintely in the thousand. when I was in college, I used to pick up strays, get them their shots/get fixed (at a discount, for bringing in so many), and find them homes. I placed over a dozen, in the year or so that I was living on my own & able to do it.

Ever since my bf got more into feline nutrition, we've been feeding them higher end canned food: natural balance, evolve, merrik's. it's made quite a difference in my chloe, she was getting a bit too voluptious for her own good. and she love's merrik's turducken.

If I ever move out of nyc, I would definitely have more cats. right now, I live with bf & his cat too (and she's a sweetie too, but obviously his little girl). If we had more room, I'd get at least a few more strays. not much makes me happier than a house full of good mews.

 

[LKH]

BTW, with the recent recall scares going on, I did some digging. Innova cat food (no, I don't work for the company) uses all organic ingredients, and they have their own manufacturing plant, so no possibility of cross-contamination. My vet's office is basically the "university hospital" of veterinary practices, so they have all disciplines, and their nutritionist said this was an excellent diet, so I switched my girls over to it. (More good news, my picky eater actually likes the stuff!)

Also, my vet tells me that it's better to have cats on dry food most of the time, with OCCASIONAL treats from the can. Evidently canned is harder on the teeth.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Funny...Oprahs vet was on tv the other day (hey...my wife was watching it, I was cooking...errr...nevermind) and his recommended food pecking order was:

- raw meat
- high end canned
- premium canned
- super premium dry
- premium dry

We feed ours the Costco brand, which so far hasnt had any recalls pointed towards it. We were feeding the Innova EVO to all the critters until the local feed store decided to raise the price 2-3 bucks a bag every time I bought it. I quit when it was topping $55 for a medium size bag. At $16 for a bag twice the size, and pretty good ingredients...back to the Costco food.

 

[Dog]

Extremely strong - my dad always joked that the dog was the only one excited to see him when he came home from work. I can now relate. How can I not be touched by the look of pure love and joy in my dog's eyes when I walk through the door after a long day at work.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Okay, I immediately have to take it back. Costco sent out recall notices for their canned kirkland dog food, its got melamine in it. Just took back the two cases we bought a few days ago. They're offering full refunds even for partially used cases.

On the original topic, I'm not sure what the hell we're going to do when our dogs and cats pass. We've got three dogs all getting towards 10 and three cats all over 14. All almost as close to us as a child.

Which means they're all going to go within a few years of each other and while Gabe is still a small boy.

Which means he and I both have a lot of hard lessons and hard decisions and experiences coming to us.

I'm not looking forward to any of it. I'm sure its going to be six of the worst days of my life. And his too.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

I'm not looking forward to any of it. I'm sure its going to be six of the worst days of my life. And his too.

Wish I could reassure you to the contrary, but I can't.

If I had a little one like Gabe (which I once did, same name) in that situation I'd consider quietly having the failing ones put down mercifully over the last couple of years while he was off at camp or something. The one or two really special ones (and I know they're all special) who died naturally at home would be more than enough to pass along lessons in life's realities, but that many dying year after year could generate a great deal of ungrounded fear about life's fragility.

Just some unpleasant options to think about down the road.

On a more upbeat note, pets bring so much to a kid's upbringing. I remember to this day being 8 years old and upset about something or other and Frisky was the only one in the entire universe who understood and listened to me. Worth the eventual loss (had him from kindergarten through sophomore year of college).

 

[samclem]

If I had a little one like Gabe (which I once did, same name) in that situation I'd consider quietly having the failing ones put down mercifully over the last couple of years while he was off at camp or something. .

I'm sure the "truth at all times" proponents will cry out in disgust, but I think Rich has offered a suggestion that's worth careful consideration. I know strongly suspect now that my Dad had one of our beloved collies put to sleep one year while we were away on vacation and the dog was being boarded at a kennel (I don't know who he had do it or how--never asked him, and did not seem worth making him relive it). I watched him cry along with the rest of us years before that when our family dog had died, and I know having the dog put to sleep must have been terribly hard on him, especially knowing the scene that awaited us after our vacation ended, and bearing the emotional burden himself of having the dog put down. But, it was easier on us kids than the alternative would have been.

True, death is just part of living. But we'll all see enough of it in our lives. It would be great save our kids from at least some of the trauma if a ripple of pet deaths seems likely.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Eh, when I was a kid my dad put down the family cat and told me he had "gone off to a farm because our new house didnt have a big enough yard for him".

For about the next 6 years I constantly wanted to know when we could go visit and why we couldnt get him back from "the farm" since we moved again and had a larger yard.

Had he told me right off the bat that he simply had the cat killed because my stepmother didnt like it, I could have gotten along to disliking her a good year or so ahead of schedule.

But Rich, your point about the persistence and volume of emotional injury is well taken. I need to find a way to strike a balance between truthfulness and impact on his little soul.

The very minute I figure out how to do it for myself.

 

[Dreamer]

We have a strong bond with our five cats, but I would always choose saving a child over any animal. I have no idea how much we have spent on our five cats and don't really want to know the amount. I have mixed emotions though. I say that if I could find them home where they would be treated as well as they are at our home, I would get let them go. If push came to shove, I don't know if I really could. I just don't know how I have arrived at this stage of my life, retired, children grown and ready to travel, with five cats. They are 3-5 years old and could very well outlive us even! I worry about what would happen to them if they do. I recently went away for a little over a week and my DH was home with them. One of our cats, Savannah, was a stray and has a strong preference for me. She needed so much love and attention for the first few days after I came home and I really felt guilty for leaving her for so long. She shies away from DH, although she will let him pet her for a second if I am right there with her. She has to go and clean herself right away though! We think that she must have been abused by a male before she came to us.

We had a dog, Susie, that lived for 17 years. She had to be put to sleep after she had a stroke. My DH took her to the vet and stayed with her. I am crying just remembering it. I swore that we would not have any more pets. Again, I still can't figure how we ended up with 5 cats!

 

[Nords]

Eh, when I was a kid my dad put down the family cat and told me he had "gone off to a farm because our new house didnt have a big enough yard for him".

Well, you know how you feel since you didn't get to say goodbye.

How would Gabe feel if he didn't get to say goodbye?

I think that if a kid doesn't get to experience a fairly benign (no offense intended) introduction to death then it'd be that much harder during experiences that aren't under anyone's control. And if a kid isn't around death as a kid then it certainly won't be easier when they're older and having to make the same decisions as adults-- maybe with our grandchildren.

Kids grew up around death for thousands of years. It's only since we've all moved off the farms (or away from buying the food to make dinner while it's still squawking) that we've decided to "shield" our kids from death. So it's nothing that a kid can't learn to handle... unless a well-meaning adult doesn't give them a chance.

And, yes, we've buried a full menagerie under one of our mango trees.

 

[Sheryl]

Well, you know how you feel since you didn't get to say goodbye.

How would Gabe feel if he didn't get to say goodbye?

I think that if a kid doesn't get to experience a fairly benign (no offense intended) introduction to death then it'd be that much harder during experiences that aren't under anyone's control. And if a kid isn't around death as a kid then it certainly won't be easier when they're older and having to make the same decisions as adults-- maybe with our grandchildren.

Kids grew up around death for thousands of years. It's only since we've all moved off the farms (or away from buying the food to make dinner while it's still squawking) that we've decided to "shield" our kids from death. So it's nothing that a kid can't learn to handle... unless a well-meaning adult doesn't give them a chance.

And, yes, we've buried a full menagerie under one of our mango trees.

Yup, I don't have room for may more bodies in the backyard.

But I think Rich's point about shielding Gabe was because of the sheer number of losses that are likely to occur in a short period - it's good to learn about the reality of death, but that volume might give him a false impression - "pets always die." ?

 

[Nords]

"pets always die." ?

Sounds like a harsh life truth to me... and one that many people, let alone 20-somethings or new parents, would do well to consider before they pick that cute puppy up out of the petshop window. Heck, just the few pages in this thread have almost talked Sam out of pet ownership, and I'm not eager to repeat the experience.

I'm not condemning 20-somethings or new parents, unless they're like the person I overheard at the Humane Society dropping off their dog because its coat didn't match the new upholstery in their living room.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

think that if a kid doesn't get to experience a fairly benign (no offense intended) introduction to death then it'd be that much harder during experiences that aren't under anyone's control. And if a kid isn't around death as a kid then it certainly won't be easier when they're older and having to make the same decisions as adults-- maybe with our grandchildren.

I understand and respect that perspective, Nords. My sense was that he could well learn those lessons by fully experiencing the death of one or two pets. One a year for six years? Not so sure whether the ups outweigh the downs, especially if he is younger than, say 12 or 13.

Ain't no expert, just some observations. Each family will decide what's best. I do know how it felt to me as a 58 year old (most recent one) -- hurt so bad it was almost enough to convince me not to get another dog. Almost .

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Yup, I don't have room for may more bodies in the backyard.

This is why its good that we had a boy and not a girl. I didnt have enough room at the old house for all the bodies...

I think that if a kid doesn't get to experience a fairly benign (no offense intended) introduction to death then it'd be that much harder during experiences that aren't under anyone's control.

Yep, his favorite toy in the world, grampa, is going to be 75 in a couple of weeks...I hope the old codger lives to see Gabe graduate from medical school, but thats a longshot.

I'll figure it all out as we go along. Hopefully circumstances will help in some shape or form. Teddy's his favorite and the feelings mutual...perhaps he'll hang in there for a long time and give him someone to hold onto through the tough times...besides mom and dad.