Poll:100% Synthetic oil - change frequency

[ERD50]

I would not assume "smart" oil minders abound. According to my BIL, who is a mechanic, they just use miles. I checked the Sienna forum, and it sounded like a dumb minder. My goal was to see how/if there was a way to tell the minder you used synthetic, but, alas, no.

I specifically looked in to the GM system, and it clearly states it is a combo of revolutions and engine temperature.

I found this, and it does say the Toyota Sienna (at least 2016) is a "miles only" measure.

https://www.yourmechanic.com/articl...a-service-indicator-lights-by-brent-minderler

I'm surprised Toyota would be that far behind. I searched "Ford Oil minder what does it measure" and the first hit says it monitors conditions, same with "Honda". But Hyundai and Volkswagen seemed to be miles only as well.

Yep, "it depends".

-ERD50

 

[ncbill]

Two older vehicles still using dino oil...changed every 6 months.

Every other vehicle...synthetic oil changed once annually.

With the caveat that none of the latter are driven more than 6,000 miles/year.

 

[zinger1457]

Saw the same info.

BTW, am I the only one that finds using 0W-16 oil makes it darn near impossible to determine the oil level on the dipstick? Super thin and colorless...

My 2 years of dealer provided service expired so did my first oil change using 0W-16 on my Avalon Hybrid earlier this year and did have difficulty seeing the oil level on the dipstick. The oil capacity is listed at 4.8 quarts so put in close to that amount and rechecked it a few times after short drives.

 

[Texas Proud]

I would not assume "smart" oil minders abound. According to my BIL, who is a mechanic, they just use miles. I checked the Sienna forum, and it sounded like a dumb minder. My goal was to see how/if there was a way to tell the minder you used synthetic, but, alas, no.

My Genesis has a dumb minder as I saw you can change the miles you want it to remind you....


My Pilot is 'smart'... not sure how smart but I do know it is not pure miles as I have had it at 10% with 6,000 miles and 7,500 miles... the longer trips make the reminder longer...

 

[REWahoo]

My 2 years of dealer provided service expired so did my first oil change using 0W-16 on my Avalon Hybrid earlier this year and did have difficulty seeing the oil level on the dipstick. The oil capacity is listed at 4.8 quarts so put in close to that amount and rechecked it a few times after short drives.

We are obviously not alone in having trouble reading the oil level.

I took my Highlander hybrid to the dealership for it's first (free) oil change and, with some difficulty, read the oil level the following morning - it was about a quart overfilled. Not sure they didn't realize it was a hybrid (takes 4.8 quarts vs. the non-hybrid's 5.8 quarts) or couldn't read the level on the dipstick and added extra "just to be safe". Overfill is not good.

Used my little oil extraction pump to pull out the excess via the dipstick tube. PITA since the pump clips to the 12V battery which isn't under the hood, it's in the rear, above the tire on the passenger side. No way the power cord would reach. Had to crank up the riding mower in the shed, drive it into the garage and park it close enough to the engine compartment to allow me to attach the pump to the mower battery.

TANSTAAFOC

 

[ERD50]

We are obviously not alone in having trouble reading the oil level. ...

Sounds like they need to add some strong dye to it.

And yes, over-fill is not good. At least in the old days, they said the connecting rods could dip down into the oil, and whip it up into a froth. That froth can't be pumped, it compresses - the pump depends on a non-compressible liquid.

-ERD50

 

[Koolau]

Never.

Oil? What do you need oil for?

You and DW have a lot in common.

 

[Koolau]

Just realized this is a zombie thread - dead for over 15 years before yesterday's resurrection!

A fair amount has changed in oil in 15 years. (Heh, heh, price being a biggie.) I always chuckle when I go to "quickie lube" or whatever, pay (now) $100 for a full synthetic change, and then they slap the little plastic reminder on the inside of my windshield that tells me to come back in 3000 miles or 3 months! That's a minimum of $400/year just for oil! Fuggiddabouddit.

This past time when I came in, it had been the better part of 2 years and about 6000 miles. Yea, I know, I'm supposed to change the oil at LEAST every year. But I figure at the rate I drive, I'll never wear out my car with 90K on the OD - even if I don't change the oil every year. YMMV

 

[Chuckanut]

Sounds like they need to add some strong dye to it.

And yes, over-fill is not good. At least in the old days, they said the connecting rods could dip down into the oil, and whip it up into a froth. That froth can't be pumped, it compresses - the pump depends on a non-compressible liquid.

-ERD50

Back in the 1980's ARCO sold an oil that had graphite mixed in with it. It was a very dark grey. The graphite was supposed to be super lubricating. One problem people had with it was that looking at the oil told you nothing about how dirty it may or may not be. Also, little leaks that went unnoticed before, now were highly visible. People blamed the oil for making the car leak. IIRC, the oil was only sold for a few years, then was discontinued

But, you sure knew where it was on the dipstick!

 

[Car-Guy]

I think a lot of the logic of frequency of oil changes is a hold over from days gone by. Back in the day of leaded gas you really needed to change your oil more often. But now with unleaded fuels, better filters and much better oil formulations, I think it's a bit of a waste to change oil too often. For years now I have been changing my oil every 5k miles and filter every 10k miles on my daily drivers, and that may even be too often. Currently using 0-40 MS-12633 spec'd oil (expensive) for my Hellcat engines and I change it every 5k miles (filters @ 10k). Never burn any oil and oil pressures are a steady 70 psi at speed. The oil never smells/taste/feels old or worn (old school skill) and doesn't even start to look dirty until I hit the 5k mark. Zero engine problems. YMMV

 

[REWahoo]

The oil never smells/taste/feels old or worn (old school skill)

Taste? Maybe something like this?

"Tightly focused, with a beam of linzer torte, bitter cherry, plum sauce and fig fruit laced with licorice snap, singed iron and roasted bay leaf. The long finish has lots of roasted fig, tar and spice notes for extra bass, but the acidity is there as well, deeply embedded…."

 

[aja8888]

Originally Posted by audreyh1
Never.

Oil? What do you need oil for?

The gear reduction unit on your Tesla drive has oil in it and an oil filter. Just so you know. The axle shafts are driven from it. Munro did t "take down" on an earlier Tesla Model 3 and went through the drive train.

 

[Out of Steam]

I'm not quite at every 7500 miles for synthetic, but that was closest to my 6000 to 7000 mile interval.

I sometimes had to work on convincing my wife to ignore the 3000 mile stickers that shops placed on her car. Even with petroleum-based oil, that was ridiculous for a hybrid. Our daughter has that car now, but drives few enough miles that oil will have to be changed based on time, rather than mileage.

Yes, Dad is still tracking maintenance on her car.

 

[Car-Guy]

Taste? Maybe something like this?

"Tightly focused, with a beam of linzer torte, bitter cherry, plum sauce and fig fruit laced with licorice snap, singed iron and roasted bay leaf. The long finish has lots of roasted fig, tar and spice notes for extra bass, but the acidity is there as well, deeply embedded…."

As I said, it's an "old school skill"... It's an acquired taste (like fine beer - I don't drink wine) and not recommended for most folks.

 

[Koolau]

Back in the 1980's ARCO sold an oil that had graphite mixed in with it. It was a very dark grey. The graphite was supposed to be super lubricating. One problem people had with it was that looking at the oil told you nothing about how dirty it may or may not be. Also, little leaks that went unnoticed before, now were highly visible. People blamed the oil for making the car leak. IIRC, the oil was only sold for a few years, then was discontinued

But, you sure knew where it was on the dipstick!

Yeah, I really liked the "visualization" factor of the graphite. No question how much was on the dipstick.

 

[Koolau]

I think a lot of the logic of frequency of oil changes is a hold over from days gone by. Back in the day of leaded gas you really needed to change your oil more often. But now with unleaded fuels, better filters and much better oil formulations, I think it's a bit of a waste to change oil too often. For years now I have been changing my oil every 5k miles and filter every 10k miles on my daily drivers, and that may even be too often. Currently using 0-40 MS-12633 spec'd oil (expensive) for my Hellcat engines and I change it every 5k miles (filters @ 10k). Never burn any oil and oil pressures are a steady 70 psi at speed. The oil never smells/taste/feels old or worn (old school skill) and doesn't even start to look dirty until I hit the 5k mark. Zero engine problems. YMMV

IIRC, my dad always changed oil at about 2000 miles. That was primarily because of the lead I think.

 

[Bamaman]

Only for people using 100% synthetic oil in their car engine.

I used to use Mobil-1 EP and change my oil every 10K. Now I use Mobil-1 Extended Performance and change it every 15K.

I've been known to go the premium oil and extended mileage. But I do change the filter and top off the oil every 5000 miles.

 

[Bamaman]

My car starts barking for me to change the oil at 5000 mile intervals.

And since it's a Toyota hybrid, it uses 0W16--a very thin oil for fuel mileage.

The problem used to be finding 0W16 which only comes in synthetics. Walmart carries only one Castroil, and I have to look hard to find it.

When I started driving hybrids, I had to order oil online. I'm glad Walmart's selling the one kind, however.

 

[Car-Guy]

IIRC, my dad always changed oil at about 2000 miles. That was primarily because of the lead I think.

Yep, same reason you had to change/clean spark plugs every ~5k miles... Lead in the gas really fouled things up.

 

[REWahoo]

IIRC, my dad always changed oil at about 2000 miles. That was primarily because of the lead I think.

My dad changed the oil in our '56 Chevy every 1,000 miles. That was primarily due to the fact it had no oil filter - and like him, oil was cheap.

 

[Chuckanut]

It's hard to believe that somebody has not taken a few identical cars (in a fleet for example), varied the oil change frequency, torn down the engines at 150K or so, and seen what they look like inside. But while pouring over the latest issues of Machinery Lubrication I found this article:

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30434/oil-change-intervalswe have this study of oil-flooded compressors:

Emphasis added....

We employ oil analysis for many of our screw-type, oil-flooded compressors. The original equipment manufacturer (OEM) recommends an oil change after 4,000 hours if a mineral oil is used and 8,000 hours if a synthetic oil is used. It is also recommended to change the oil filter and separator at 8,000 hours. The problem is that when we analyze the used oil, the data indicates that an oil change should take place in much shorter intervals, even half of what the manufacturer recommends. Typically, the acid number and viscosity have increased, there is some moderate water contamination, and the additive concentration has been greatly reduced. All these indicate that an oil change must take place. If this is the case, why do OEMs continue to give the same recommendations regarding oil change intervals?"

 

[zinger1457]

It's hard to believe that somebody has not taken a few identical cars (in a fleet for example), varied the oil change frequency, torn down the engines at 150K or so, and seen what they look like inside. But while pouring over the latest issues of Machinery Lubrication I found this article:

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30434/oil-change-intervalswe have this study of oil-flooded compressors:

Emphasis added....

Consumer Reports did an oil change study a few years ago to determine the best oil change interval. They would tear apart the engines and measure the wear on engine parts at various intervals. As I recall their finding was that there was no benefit to changing the oil at less that the manufacturers recommendations but it was important to perform regular oil changes.

 

[Koolau]

Yep, same reason you had to change/clean spark plugs every ~5k miles... Lead in the gas really fouled things up.

Oh, I do remember those days. Fortunately, getting to spark plugs was easy back then. I could climb inside the engine bay of my 283 Chevy to set the timing and pull the plugs. Now, I'm not quite certain where my spark plugs are under all the wiring, plumbing and plastic. Fortunately, I won't even think about spark plugs unless the gas mileage drops or the engine begins to miss fire. I think I like today better, but miss being able to do my own car maintenance. YMMV

 

[FLSUnFIRE]

Mobile 1 warranties up to 20K miles per change.... (shorter of that or manufacturers recommendation). I think I'd trust modern lubricants to protect my engine. My current car I go by the computer/manufacturer recommendation and seems to be about 8K between changes (turbo mixed driving but more short trips no that I'm FIREd)... I plan to keep it a long time.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

As it happens this thread started the year we got our first Toyota Prius (2007) and from that point on I have only ever had the oil changed once a year during the annual service which happens to be about 10k miles on average.

I have just had our current Prius in for its annual service and while waiting watched one of the promotional/information videos showing on one of the TV screens. For a Prius it stated that the engine only runs 50% of the time, and if that is typical of other hybrids then an oil change at 10k miles means that the engine has only done 5k.

Interesting. Our '07 Prius has an oil-change light that starts blinking at 4500 miles and glows steadily at startup around 5K. I usually get the oil changed before the reminder progresses to a steady glow.

The sump holds less than 4 quarts -- not much oil for an extended oil-change interval. On a Prius-specific forum I'm subscribed to (PriusChat), it's not uncommon to encounter threads about oil consumption in Generation 2 Priuses, as well as cures to clean out clogged oil rings on the pistons. I believe that's the condition the YouTube guy points out -- the clogging seizes up the oil rings, which causes them to wear down the cylinder bores.

Toyota also says the transmission fluid in the Prius is a lifetime fill, IIRC. I change mine every 50K. I think it's good protection. The transmission holds only a few quarts.