PSA: Turnoff water AND depressurize

[PageTwo]

My plumbing is set up to isolate my domestic water from the heating system so I can turn off my domestic hot and cold water (sinks, showers, toilets, etc) but still have water going to my hydronic heating systems... one zone is in-slab radiant heat and the other zone is hot water baseboard.

When I'm away for the winter I turn off the domestic water but leave the heating on.

Guess I'll have to find out if that's the case for my house too! Thanks for the tip.

 

[pacergal]

Wow--in the past, we just turned off the lights and locked the doors, usually never gone more than 1-2 weeks.
Now we hire a house/dog sitter, so not a problem.
I guess it could have been before.

 

[CardsFan]

Wow--in the past, we just turned off the lights and locked the doors, usually never gone more than 1-2 weeks.
Now we hire a house/dog sitter, so not a problem.
I guess it could have been before.

OP here.

That is all we used to do too. Then we had two different friends have the water line to the ice maker break while gone for several days to a week.

They had MUCH bigger problems than us with probably 100's of gallons of water ruining floors, carpets, cabinets, walls and furniture on much of the first level and also flooding the basement. $25k to $40k worth of damage.

Just got our insurance estimate. $3,800 less $1,000 deductible. Now we need to get a quote from a contractor. May upgrade to vinyl plank. Some of that stuff looks really nice, and it would not be ruined by a gallon of water like the laminate.

 

[Sunset]

Wow--in the past, we just turned off the lights and locked the doors, usually never gone more than 1-2 weeks.
Now we hire a house/dog sitter, so not a problem.
I guess it could have been before.

We were away one summer , and had someone checking our house and mail every couple of days.
Literally about 2 days before we returned (estimate based on water bill and spray of the water) the toilet shutoff burst open a bit.

The person checking the house had been in the house the day before we returned, we could tell from the mail in the house.
That person didn't notice anything. It was a lower bathroom so likely the sound didn't carry up the stairs.

Now I'm thinking of water alarms wherever there is a potential leak (bathrooms, under dishwasher, by water heater, under kitchen sink).

Of course now, we turn it off if gone from house overnight, as that really means gone at least 24 hrs.

 

[6miths]

I shut off the water, turn off pump breaker, turn off water heater breaker, unplug water softener and iron filter. And I open basement hot and cold faucets until no more water comes out.

But there probably is a little water in the system at the some places - such as the dishwasher. I don't think that opening the lowest valve syphons all water out of the system.

This is my routine at the cottage. When leaving in winter weather open all taps up and down and leave open. March to November just depressurize from downstairs taps and then close. Also close the shutoff between the pressure tank and the house so I don't drain the tank entirely. At home I only shut water off if no one around for more than a week or so. Not nearly as conscientious.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Depressure won't help -- you would need to drain the system. Pressure or no, the pipes hold the same volume of water (water can not be compressed). Then, you have to bleed the air out of the system when you return. And, I've been told but don't know if it is true, the seals dry out and can fail sooner if you keep draining the system. And, you might damage the ice maker in your fridge if there is no water service?
I always shut off the main water supply and did not drain the system when I left. I thought that I could handle the limited volume of water in the pipes if something burst/leaked. Your experience tells me I was wrong.

I would also note that few homes will maintain a pressure over a long period...and if you don't turn off the ice maker, that pressure will be lost almost immediately.

I've never turned my water off when gone. How long do you have to be gone to bother with this?

For us, if we are gone for more than a couple of days. We have already had a couple of leaks while at home and the amount of water that was "dispensed" in a very short period of time was amazing. It takes me about 1 minute to turn off the well pump, close the shutoff valve and turn off the ice maker(s). Well worth the time, IMHO.

That seems like overkill. You are as likely to sleep through a water leak as not, so being there wouldn't make much of a difference.

Overkill for you perhaps, but maybe not to others. There are simple/cheap alarms for this and after our first leak, I bought them and it alerted me to the second leak at 2:30 in the morning. Our house is primarily hard wood floors, so I do *not* want to deal with them being damaged to water. The insurance claim (and big deductible) is one thing, but finding someone to fix them these days is a whole 'nother battle I do not want to wage.

 

[W2R]

Sorry you came home to such a mess!

That's never happened to me, but then I don't ever travel, either. I am one of the lucky few who doesn't have the slightest desire to travel any more.

On the other hand, who says I would have noticed if this type of leak had happened while I was at home? I tend to walk around with my head in the clouds, and I'm not the most observant person in the world.

 

[audreyh1]

I shut off the water, turn off pump breaker, turn off water heater breaker, unplug water softener and iron filter. And I open basement hot and cold faucets until no more water comes out.

But there probably is a little water in the system at the some places - such as the dishwasher. I don't think that opening the lowest valve syphons all water out of the system.

Yeah we also turn off power breakers for a few major appliances including the on demand gas water heater.

 

[Livefree]

Home Depot sells a battery operated water leak sensor, that emits a loud alarm, like a smoke detector, for about $10. I keep one next to my water heater.

 

[triangle]

Went away for 3 weeks. Turned off the water as always, BUT did not open a faucet to depressurize the system.

Came back, and the dish washer is dripping on to the LAMINATE floor, and had been for a while.

Near as I can figure, there was a gallon (+/-) dumped, but it sat there for days (weeks?).

I am guessing the dishwasher valve has a slow leak, filled it up (not much water volume there) and it dripped for days.

Insurance has been here, and were very helpful. May get a new floor, but i just keep hitting myself in the head. Next time open a faucet.

Unfortunate, but you did the right thing and should not feel too much regret. My neighbor was gone for a long weekend during which time a washing machine hose burst flooding everything. Had to replace the floors, HVAC vents, and drywall.

I considered installing one of those automatic shutoff values, but then thought that is going too far and would need to deal with false positives.
https://www.smarthomeperfected.com/automatic-water-shut-off-valves/

 

[Sunset]

Unfortunate, but you did the right thing and should not feel too much regret. My neighbor was gone for a long weekend during which time a washing machine hose burst flooding everything. Had to replace the floors, HVAC vents, and drywall.

I considered installing one of those automatic shutoff values, but then thought that is going too far and would need to deal with false positives.
https://www.smarthomeperfected.com/automatic-water-shut-off-valves/

Washing machines are famous for bursting hoses. What is nice is most of the time there is a shut off right where they connect.
Myself I've never had one burst, so I don't know how they get the reputation.

 

[Ronstar]

Home Depot sells a battery operated water leak sensor, that emits a loud alarm, like a smoke detector, for about $10. I keep one next to my water heater.

I have a YoLink subsystem with water leak sensors under kitchen sink, water heater, water softener and pressure tank. I'm supposed to get a notification on my phone when water hits one of the sensors. Should work ok, but I would also like a loud alarm like yours.

 

[DayDreaming]

Home Depot sells a battery operated water leak sensor, that emits a loud alarm, like a smoke detector, for about $10. I keep one next to my water heater.

I have a couple of these alarms - they're wi-fi enabled and alert your phone:
https://smile.amazon.com/Roost-Smart-Water-Freeze-Detector/dp/B01NC0SWDT

My homeowners insurance offered them for free so I took advantage of that. I use it mainly to know if my sump pump fails and the basement is flooding. Of course this is useless if your power or internet is out, but no alarm system is perfect.

 

[tb001]

We have never turned the water off, but now I’m thinking we should.

Dumb question... when you turn it off and open the faucets to drain the pipes, is there a secret to turning it back on? I’m asking because we had a plumber do this and we now have a knocking in the pipes, which I’m assuming is due to air. We also turned on an upstairs shower before most other things and the shower head became completely clogged.

Another option, which we’re installing at the main line, is a phyn or moen leak detection with a shut off valve. We had a huge problem after one of the big box stores installed a dishwasher. We ran it overnight and didn’t discover it was leaking for several weeks. Water is so destructive.

 

[audreyh1]

I don’t drain the pipes. I may relieve a little pressure.

Our main goal is if a leak develops, have a limit on the amount of water.

 

[Livefree]

We have never turned the water off, but now I’m thinking we should.

Dumb question... when you turn it off and open the faucets to drain the pipes, is there a secret to turning it back on? I’m asking because we had a plumber do this and we now have a knocking in the pipes, which I’m assuming is due to air. We also turned on an upstairs shower before most other things and the shower head became completely clogged.

The knocking (water hammer) may be due to not opening the valve enough. Our upstairs toilet, due to high pressure, will knock if I don't open the shut off valve all the way. I've had this happen a few times with different valves...try opening the valve all the way to relieve pressure

 

[tb001]

We have never turned the water off, but now I’m thinking we should.

Dumb question... when you turn it off and open the faucets to drain the pipes, is there a secret to turning it back on? I’m asking because we had a plumber do this and we now have a knocking in the pipes, which I’m assuming is due to air. We also turned on an upstairs shower before most other things and the shower head became completely clogged.

The knocking (water hammer) may be due to not opening the valve enough. Our upstairs toilet, due to high pressure, will knock if I don't open the shut off valve all the way. I've had this happen a few times with different valves...try opening the valve all the way to relieve pressure

Hmmm, I’m pretty sure all the valves are fully open, but I’ll double check. Thank you!

 

[ElizabethT]

OP here.

That is all we used to do too. Then we had two different friends have the water line to the ice maker break while gone for several days to a week.

They had MUCH bigger problems than us with probably 100's of gallons of water ruining floors, carpets, cabinets, walls and furniture on much of the first level and also flooding the basement. $25k to $40k worth of damage.

Just got our insurance estimate. $3,800 less $1,000 deductible. Now we need to get a quote from a contractor. May upgrade to vinyl plank. Some of that stuff looks really nice, and it would not be ruined by a gallon of water like the laminate.

You might reconsider filing a claim over a $2800 net payout. It's possible your insurance will go up by more, plus one more loss within three years could make you uninsurable for the ensuing three or more years. I encourage you to contact your agent to discuss what effect this claim could have on your premiums. (They won't/shouldn't tell you whether or not to keep claim filed, but can certainly advise as to future premium ramifications).

HO insurance claims should be reserved for the truly large losses, not smaller claims, for the reasons above.

(Former insurance industry professional)

 

[ERD50]

I've never turned my water off when gone. How long do you have to be gone to bother with this?

If a leak develops 2 hours after you leave, then 2 hours. If the leak develops after 2 minutes, then 2 minutes.

Clearly, there is no definitive answer to the question, it's all a matter of degrees. The longer you are gone, the higher the risk of a leak in your absence. Weigh the risk against the effort to turn things off, and drain for even more protection.

In our previous home, on a well, I would just flip the switch on the pump if we were gone overnight. It was easy, the switch was in the basement, easily accessible, and while the pressure tank could still push a few gallons (depending on where it was in the fill/empty cycle), it would limit the damage. Hmm, I need to verify the shut-off in the new-to-us home works OK.

I'd also unplug the water softener, and maybe turn the water heater to OFF. These things just take a minute or two, and were just part of our final walk through before leaving.

-ERD50

 

[Chuckanut]

For years I have turned off the water when I leave the house for any trip over a few days. I also shut off power to the water heater. I turn on several taps on the three levels of my home to drain as much water out of the pipes as I can. I figure if something is going to leak, the less water that leaks out the better. Upon return I flush each toilet, open all the taps and slowly turn on the water. That seems to nearly eliminate air in the pipes problem.

One year my then wife objected to this process since she wanted a neighbor to water her outside pots a few times. I grudgingly went along with it. We returned home to a warped bathroom floor caused by a leaky toilet. How the toilet knew we were going to be out of town for two weeks is beyond me. It's perfidious timing was exquisite.

Note: I held my tongue. She was worth it.

 

[Walt34]

Now I'm thinking of water alarms wherever there is a potential leak (bathrooms, under dishwasher, by water heater, under kitchen sink).

That's what we have done. Home Depot sells these alarms, I ended up buying (literally!) a dozen of them:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Resideo...ater-Leak-Detector-with-Alarm-RWD21/204116885

We didn't have any major damage but have had a couple of close calls because we were lucky enough to be home. Of course they don't do any good if no one is home to hear them. For that you need to turn off the water or spring for the one that is connected, lets you know about a "constant flow" situation, and lets you remotely turn off the water. Those are more expensive but still lots cheaper than water damage.

 

[Telly]

I've used this one for our water heater:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Basement-Watchdog-Battery-Operated-Water-Alarm-BWD-HWA/100038838

This one is easily remoted via wire. The sensor part is sitting in the water heater's drain pan. The alarm itself is inside on a wall. We would never hear the alarm go off if it were an all-in-one solution.

I snipped the wire off close to the alarm unit, and put a two-pin Molex connector on it. A mating Molex connector has the wire on it that goes through a very small hole I bored through the wall, and down into the pan to the sensing contacts. Adding your own wire to extend it longer than the wire provided is no problem. The Molex connectors allow the wall-mounted alarm unit to be taken down for battery check/replacement, without pulling wire back out through the wall. The wire is caulked in at each bored hole. The Molex connection tucks up inside the open bottom of the unit.

The bottom of the unit is open if the sensor is separated from the case. To use it as an all-in-one, the wire it comes with is stuffed up inside the case, and the sensor/case bottom is snapped into the case.

 

[ERD50]

Related to this and the water alarms, I plan to add an alarm inside our sump pit and utility pit (downstairs bath, washtub, A/C condensate, and any leakage from water heater would flow into the utility pit).

An alarm inside those pits would warn me that the level was rising before it over flows anywhere. Though ones on the floor are still good to have for detecting leaks that don't go right down the drain.

I thought about this after walking DD through a utility pump failure at her townhouse (video chat sure is useful for things like this!). Fortunately, she noticed the water on the floor as she was doing laundry, so she caught it before it got out of hand. It was the float switch, with the external plug, so I had her unplug the switch and plug the pump directly into the outlet to empty the pit, then unplug it. Then I was prescient enough to think about her water softener, so I had her unplug that also in case it ran overnight.

She called a guy in to fix it (replace the whole pump and float, which makes sense considering the labor of opening it up and a service call). I pointed out these water alarms for the floor, and she bought three of them.

Then later, I thought about how for a pump failure/blockage, those alarms only tell you after the water has backed up the drain onto the floor, which might be too late to prevent a big mess. An alarm inside that is set just above the level that triggers the pump would give you an early warning, before there is any mess.

-ERD50

 

[Jerry1]

I had an alarm inside my sump pit in my previous house. If the sump pump went bad, I’d have a flooded basement in short order. I just took one of those floor alarms (the ten dollar one from Home Depot mentioned earlier) and hung it in the pit. Worked perfectly to notify me when the water was too high, but still in the pit.

 

[ERD50]

I had an alarm inside my sump pit in my previous house. If the sump pump went bad, I’d have a flooded basement in short order. I just took one of those floor alarms (the ten dollar one from Home Depot mentioned earlier) and hung it in the pit. Worked perfectly to notify me when the water was too high, but still in the pit.

That should work well for a sump pit. I'm not sure those will work in a utility pit, probably too much "muck" that would bridge the electrical contacts and keep the alarm on after the water level goes down?

Though, if you do get an alarm, you'll probably be opening up the utility pit anyhow, so you could clean the sensor?

-ERD50