Rant about electronics on newer used car

[Car-Guy]

I buy at least one new car every year. My two current daily drivers are a RAM PU and Jeep GC and they have all the latest and greatest electronic offered by FCA but I don't pay for any on-going subscription services (except XM radio @ ~$60 yr). Don't need them, don't miss them, don't want them... Lot's of cool things/features built in these days...Some I use and some I don't. One of the coolest things (IMO) is OTA updates. That has saved me more than one or two trips to the dealer for updates.

 

[Car-Guy]

You want your engine to produce the full 400hp? That's $22/mo, else we detune your engine to the "base" hp.....

That would be almost criminal IMO... I have never even heard of that (not surprised though) but no matter, there is no way, I'd buy a car the pulled that sort of BS.... I paid almost $100k to get the level of HP in my car and, that's enough money!

 

[Midpack]

Sorry to misunderstand. Re add-ons, I'll join the rant. Last year DW bought a never-sold Mini Countryman that was a Mini rep's car. It had every option in the book, including a little projector light that puts the Mini logo on the driveway when the driver door is opened at night! Heads up display of course, GPS, etc. etc.

The killer, though, was that the manual to operate all this stuff is stored in the main electronic box itself, so you can either read the manual or operate the box but not both at the same time. Paper manual? "No problem, sir. They are available for $65." !??!?!

Or for free, like almost any car these days... https://www.miniusa.com/content/dam/mini/PDF/archiveownermanuals/MY19/f60.pdf

 

[OldShooter]

Or for free, like almost any car these days... https://www.miniusa.com/content/dam/mini/PDF/archiveownermanuals/MY19/f60.pdf

Yes, but hard copies are not free. PDFs are very useful for searching but awkward to use while sitting in the car. So I printed a hard copy on my two-sided laser and paid a few bucks to have it spiral bound.

 

[Midpack]

I believe Tesla already does that for some features. All the hardware/software is installed, but you have to pay to get it activated.

If I’ve read correctly, Full Self Driving is the biggest software upgrade at $10,000 if you buy it when you order car, or later. No hardware upgrade is needed as you can upgrade to FSD later. Evidently Tesla is working on a FSD subscription option for folks who don’t want to pony up $10K in one fell swoop...

 

[Beldar]

We bought our 2016 Subaru Outback new and I ignored all of that stuff... we have AAA for roadside assistance but that is all

^^^ Winner.

We are looking for a late model vehicle with some interior room as we can't fit furniture or large boxes in our MX-5.

But I'll be darned if I pay for services that don't directly help in my driving. And, based on recent rental experiences, I'll probably leave those annoying LCD screens turned OFF. I have enough distractions.

_B

 

[Midpack]

Yes, but hard copies are not free. PDFs are very useful for searching but awkward to use while sitting in the car. So I printed a hard copy on my two-sided laser and paid a few bucks to have it spiral bound.

Great, problem solved without spending $65. I don’t miss hard copies of instructions, clearly YMMV.

 

[ls99]

I ignore the optional doodads. My major annoyance is when onstar kicks on every so often to tell me that this vehicle is equipped with it. I generally utter a few choice words not printable here.
Too lazy to open the dashbord and s*itcan the onstar devices. For maps I have independent GPS. AAA for towing. Weather is avalable on pc and thermometer in mirrors.

My true gripe is the cars and trucks are starting to look like video games on wheels. Really annoyed by touch screens, talk about distractions! Seems the things are bigger in every new edition. They seem to copy razor manufacturers with half dozen blades.

 

[Midpack]

Another ER.org theme thread...

 

[Z3Dreamer]

I'm not following what the rant is.

Does the OP want all of this included with the base car? I don't want the base price going up for features I don't use.

Does the OP want those somewhat related features to be grouped together in one package? I don't want to pay for Sirius if I just want the emergency products.

Is the rant about the $410 cost of all this? Don't get it then.

No, I do not expect everything included with the base car. I also understand that I don't have to subscribe to all or any of the optional services. I am just trying to understand what I need to subscribe to to get all features working. Once I understand what it does and what it costs, then I can decide what to get.

Car is a 2017 Subaru Legacy. Many/most of the features on the screen don't work. A few work by just connecting a bluetooth or usb connected phone. No cost. Others need a Sirius subscription. Others need a Starlink through the phone. Others need a Starlink Safety and/or Security subscription.

With MidPack's help, I have now figured it out. Question now is what features do people like?

 

[RetireeRobert]

Starlink notifies people but they don't do anything. For example, no towing is included above. For that, you should get Roadside Assistance Plus. $80 a year. For this you get 4 - $100 credits, one per incident. Can be used on all of your drivers and cars. $80 is per family, not per car....

For roadside assistance look into Good Samaritan Club RA coverage. Things like tows, lockouts, dead batteries, out of gas. From time to time they even put their RA policies on sale if you time it right. Gives better two coverage than AAA who now limits a tow to 3 miles I think on the basic policy. Good Sam covers tow to "nearest repair facility".

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

For roadside assistance look into Good Samaritan Club RA coverage. Things like tows, lockouts, dead batteries, out of gas. From time to time they even put their RA policies on sale if you time it right. Gives better two coverage than AAA who now limits a tow to 3 miles I think on the basic policy. Good Sam covers tow to "nearest repair facility".

Or look to your credit cards. Many of the issuers have this as an added benefit to the card. I don't remember the specifics, but our USAA Unlimited Cash Back card's coverage was comparable to the base AAA plan.

 

[JRon]

$410 is quite a bit, but all up to what you want. We have GM cars, but do not pay for Onstar. I have no problem with GM offering it for a monthly fee. I used to pay for XM radio when I traveled the northern plains building restaurants and hotels. Having talk radio and not losing the signal while driving state to state was the best!

 

[Midpack]

Question now is what features do people like?

If you’ve read the replies, many/most here don't find any of the added cost subscription services worth paying for. There are equal or better options through your smartphone, many at zero added cost. There’s no universal right answer, what services are value added to YOU is all that matters...

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

As a driver of beaters, I have the number of a tow company that I trust on my cell phone. That's my low-budget alternative to AAA.

I had to use it just before Christmas when the neutral-safety switch on my '05 Ford Ranger seized up. Got a tow home for $100, and I tipped the driver $20 because it was Xmas.

 

[Koolau]

Last time I looked for a used car, I peered in the window of each car I came to on the lot. If I DIDN'T see a computer screen on the dash, I checked the price and maybe talked to a sales person.

Heh, heh, my 2000 has ONSTAR capability but it never occurred to me to find out how to activate it. I figure if I can't call for help, DW will know about where I am and call someone if I don't return. I think in an emergency, someone can figure where my phone is - and it's always with me.

We had a major news story not too long ago about a car that went over a cliff (IIRC the driver was killed.) The car WAS spotted by someone, obviously. Here in the Islands, you would think this would be common and that all the $100/month (or whatever) "safety" packages would be a big seller. I can't tell you if they are or not. MY point is that this isn't very common as the story was big - in a state where you would expect a lot of it.

But, I'm not suicidal. I DID purchase an important safety package to go with my car. It's a little hammer-like device with a sharp point on the head. I'm surrounded by water where I live so if my car ever ends up submerged, this device is designed to break out a window and allow me to escape (just hope Jaws is not waiting to see what all the commotion is.)

My gut tells me that car companies have found a new profit center - selling goodies to their customers. I have no problem with that, but my gut also tells me that most of these goodies are of limited value. If you NEED them, they're gold. My gut says most of us will never need them. BUT, I could be wrong. I was once so YMMV.

 

[Ginny]

I have had my son's 17 Honda civic for a year (he's overseas in the military) and I cannot figure out the e brake.

 

[Koolau]

I have had my son's 17 Honda civic for a year (he's overseas in the military) and I cannot figure out the e brake.

Okay, you made me look. I guess you learn something new every day. I thought maybe "e brake" meant "emergency brake." Now I find out there really IS an electronic emergency/parking brake. Who knew? (I guess all you tech wizards and newer car owners.) Apparently the concept goes back 20+ years, but I've never had a car with the future, so forgive a dinosaur for misunderstanding this new-fangled car stuff.

BUT, regarding e-brakes, if you can't figure out from the manual, you might try looking for your make/model on youtube. I found a "generic" discussion of the feature on Jeeps. YMMV

 

[Out of Steam]

Last time I looked for a used car, I peered in the window of each car I came to on the lot. If I DIDN'T see a computer screen on the dash, I checked the price and maybe talked to a sales person.

Heh, heh, my 2000 has ONSTAR capability but it never occurred to me to find out how to activate it.

You don't need to be concerned about the OnStar. At that year, it was based on analog cell phone technology, and the network it talked to has been gone for over a decade.

 

[NW-Bound]

I just received an email from GM Onstar about the monthly status of my new car (bought on Jan 4th). Said everything is OK, other than 3 of the tires are at 31 psi instead of the spec'ed 35 psi.

I got 3 months of free trial of some kind of service (summon help for emergency and other things like that). Don't know how much they will charge when that ends. Does not seem worth the cost.

The car has lane keeping assist, and it seems to work. On an empty stretch of road, I let the car drift out of its lane a few times, and the computer nudged the steering wheel to get it back in the lane. Don't want to try and test the rear-end collision thinggie though.

 

[rk911]

Just purchased a 2017 Subaru Legacy. I read the manuals and studied online stuff and called. Here is what you are supposed to get:

Starlink is the name of their Safety ($100 a year) and Security ($150) product. Totally different products so you should get both. They have features like automatically notifying people in case of accidents, locating the car if stolen, remote locking/unlocking via a cellphone app, etc.

Starlink notifies people but they don't do anything. For example, no towing is included above. For that, you should get Roadside Assistance Plus. $80 a year. For this you get 4 - $100 credits, one per incident. Can be used on all of your drivers and cars. $80 is per family, not per car.

Are we done, yet? No, read on.

There is an information page that gives you weather, sports, stocks, etc. To use this, you need Sirius XM for $16.95 per month plus taxes and fees. See ongoing thread about the Sirius dance where you can get the cost down to $80 a year and they may even throw in an Echo dot!

Total $410 a year, if you are lucky and persistent. Oh, I forgot, other features of Starlink appear to need you to Bluetooth connect to your phone. I am talking about the maintenance data and a few others.

BTW, the car is great.

Do you have similar experience with your car electronics?

none of that junk was available (thankfully) when we bought our 2010 Jeep in 2010. we'll likely be buying our last car in a few years and in a way j dread it. don't care about the fancy electronics...have no need of them. also not looking forward to some (most?) of the "smart" features...you know, the 'i-don't-have-to-pay-attention-cuz-the-car-will-save-me" features. yeah, i'm cranky about such things.

 

[jollystomper]

It gets worse. Here is something I read BMW was approaching recently, but then backed off from saying it was "not quite ready to be rolled out."

Subscription services for features in your car. You want heated seats? Ok, pay us $17 a month. If you don't we will deactivate them in your car via wireless link. Keep in mind the heaters are always THERE, they will just make them work (or not) unless you pay them. Same with all the fancy infotainment stuff. Every car has all the same hardware (that actually saves the maker money) but you'll just need to (keep) paying them to keep them working. You want your engine to produce the full 400hp? That's $22/mo, else we detune your engine to the "base" hp.....

Needless to say, I have no plans of buying a Beemer.

The more cars get computerized and contain firmware/software, the more you will see this. It is a common practice in the IT world, where computing hardware manufacturers build all kinds of features in the hardware but some will only be turned on if you pay for them.


The more reliable things get, the way to make more money off of them is via subscription services.

 

[jollystomper]

I donot look for many new electronic features/options when buying newly used. The more of those features the more likely they are to distract me when driving. The main new electronic features I will look for:
- Bluetooth connection for phone for calls and music
- Backup camera
- USB ports with some providing >= 2.1 Amps (1.0 does not charge some items quickly enough, I have supplemented this with addons in some of our cars).

I will look at features that require me to do nothing and will just alert me to issues. Our 2017 Kia Sorento will display the psi for each tire and will highlight any of them if that tire falls below the recommended pressure. I do not have lane assist, but have test driven cars and would find that useful Actually, I want the lane assist feature one that also starts blasting "WAKE UP! YOU ARE DRIFTING, IDIOT!!" from the speakers.


I'm not in the car enough currently to make Sirius XM worthwhile. I would like if it they had a reasonably prices "trip" subscription. If we are using our car for a long trip, specify the start and end dates and only pay a prorated monthly rate for those days.

I have rented cars that had Waze built in. That would be convenient, as it would be one less thing draining my phone battery (particularly when the car USB ports max out at 1.0 amps).

 

[harley]

Well, my Highlander has a cassette player, but it ate a couple of my tapes so I quit using it. Damn electronics!

 

[Nick12]

Our Hondas still have the 6 CD changer. I have just never put 6 CDs in the unit to ever try it out.