social issues

[Martha]

WHAT.. you should know us better than that   

And just like most discussions like this.... no minds are changed one iota.. just a good way to vent your opinions..  but I have to admit that there are some very good people on this board that have different views than me...  and I respect their view.. 

Since coming to this forum, has anyone changed their mind one iota on a social issue? Or at least learned facts about the issue that you didn't know before that modified your thinking?  This thread was inspired by Texas Proud's comment above on the Rich get Richer, Poor get Poorer thread. 

 

[haha]

I voted yes. I am not sure I could say that I have flipped on any issue, but I have definitely broadened my ideas, and I have become less sure that I really have enough information or insight to know what course of action might be best in many situations.

I am quite disappointed in what GWB has done to the Republican Party, and to our country, by first starting and then failing at this war in Iraq. Our military won the war, but lost the peace. Remind anyone of Viet Nam? I we stay the Repubs lose the next two elections at least, more of our troops get killed, we bankrupt our treasury, and every Muslim will hate us instead of just many or most Muslims.

OTOH, If we leave, Iran owns the Gulf and has a chokehold on Western economies. Who could resist them? Not the Kuwaitis, not the Saudis, not the Syrians.

We are essentially screwed, and it all started with big George going after "those weapons of mass destruction."

That still doesn't make me a Democrat, though if I could turn back the clock I would not have voted for the Bush Gang.

I skip a lot of posts, including most of the posts on politics and religion. Mainly I am looking for finance and financial planning related things. I have a number of investments that I found out about here. I also like practical knowledge like what cleaner to use or what diet is best, or tax and estate planning ideas, legal or medical tips, etc. Also, by looking into FireCalc I realized that for me at least the 4% SWR, 75/25 split is off the table at present. Previously I hadn’t really thought about it strategically

Another category I enjoy is affiliative banter and busting one another's chops, and that plus a little help from the moderater gang has caused me to change some ideas. 

Ha

 

[Nords]

Since coming to this forum, has anyone changed their mind one iota on a social issue?

Yep. I'm a lot more inclined to favor a government/industry partnership on healthcare, with the govt stepping in for the most severe expenses & situations.

Or at least learned facts about the issue that you didn't know before that modified your thinking?

Ooh yeah. More than I wanted to know!

But I also see this board as the first place to ask "Does anyone know how to..."

 

[sgeeeee]

Unfortunately, you won't get valid results when you ask the question this way. Most people do not realize how other's arguments have changed their own views. Some would hesitate to admit their views were changed by what someone else said -- especially if it were said during a heated debate. But if you monitor public opinion polls over a period of time, you know that people are changing their minds -- in large numbers sometimes. They are listening to what someone is saying and changing their minds.

 

[Eagle43]

I voted yes. Primarily about such things as pension issues and healthcare. And a big one is the work/retirement issue. I was very reluctant to retire. This is a Support Group that tells me you are not that bad and might be heroic.

 

[Texas Proud]

Since coming to this forum, has anyone changed their mind one iota on a social issue? Or at least learned facts about the issue that you didn't know before that modified your thinking? This thread was inspired by Texas Proud's comment above on the Rich get Richer, Poor get Poorer thread.

WOW... started a poll...

I was being a bit dramatic... with the iota part... yes, most people will learn something on this board.. but will they 'change their mind'... ie, was against universal health care, now for it... was for defense, now against it... was for Clinton, Bush, etc.. (you pick).. now against... I doubt it..

I have learned a lot from this board... but also have kept my opinions the same...

But, it is you poll and we will see what happens...

 

[Texas Proud]

I voted yes. Primarily about such things as pension issues and healthcare. And a big one is the work/retirement issue. I was very reluctant to retire. This is a Support Group that tells me you are not that bad and might be heroic.

When I made the quote... we were discussion the budget, universal healthcare and defense... I bet most people have learned things about pensions and investing and retiring.. that is what the board is all about!!!

So, like someone else said... bad results... so sorry..

 

[donheff]

Unfortunately, you won't get valid results when you ask the question this way. Most people do not realize how other's arguments have changed their own views. Some would hesitate to admit their views were changed by what someone else said -- especially if it were said during a heated debate. But if you monitor public opinion polls over a period of time, you know that people are changing their minds -- in large numbers sometimes. They are listening to what someone is saying and changing their minds.

I voted no, because I can't think of a specific social issue I have switched on but, in retrospect, I probably should have voted yes. Various things I have read on this board made me re-think what I thought were no brainers. I have also noted a few times when I spouted off on some topic without thinking it through (probably reflected my basic thinking) and an insightful reponse straightened me right out.

Sorry though, I am still a lefty and want to see a universal health care program

 

[Martha]

When I made the quote... we were discussion the budget, universal healthcare and defense...  I bet most people have learned things about pensions and investing and retiring.. that is what the board is all about!!!

So, like someone else said... bad results...  so sorry..

Not really, judging from both the comments and the votes.  I am encouraged. 

But I also see this board as the first place to ask "Does anyone know how to..."

Absolutely. 

Since coming to the board, I have become much more frugal and careful about shopping.

 

[justin]

voted yes - I'm still a youngin in my formative years - hence I still have a little bit of "idiot" in me.

I don't know that I have flip flopped 180, but I feel like a number of issues were explained and examined in great detail, and I learned a lot from the discussions, sometimes leading to further surfing or reading to learn more about issues - universal health care, immigration, homosexuality, international poverty/relief, etc.

My underlying general take on the world hasn't changed a bit - laissez faire, let the markets do their job. Govt can step in where there is a market failure. My view of what constitutes a "market failure" may be a little broader now.

 

[maddythebeagle]

I voted yes also, although I would rather read discussions that are on money, how things work, and funny stuff ....I think discussions on stuff like health care end up running into political battles and troll fodder....

I really enjoyed Rich's recent input on the health care reform issues, though....

 

[Donzo]

I find that my thoughts on several topics have changed since I retired. I used to be very republican - as was my father. Now.....? I am looking forward to the next presidential race - I will be much more open.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

Interesting to consider why people post their more extreme positions on a board like this.

Sometimes I think it is almost an invitation for others to change their mind - especially the radical rants that have no facts to back them up. Those posters might never admit it, but maybe their extreme views soften a bit, especially if folks don't rise to the bait.

Those who truly wish to persuade generally succeed by introducing new information to the debate, or weaving a tight logical argument that just makes sense.

 

[REWahoo]

Interesting to consider why people post their more extreme positions on a board like this.

Sometimes I think it is almost an invitation for others to change their mind - especially the radical rants that have no facts to back them up. Those posters might never admit it, but maybe their extreme views soften a bit, especially if folks don't rise to the bait.

Those who truly wish to persuade generally succeed by introducing new information to the debate, or weaving a tight logical argument that just makes sense.

What!!!!?? You are full of beans, Doc. Where are your facts to back up your obnoxious rant? Any studies you can quote to "prove" the accuracy of our outrageous claim? Didn't think so.

I'm fed up with the ravings of you medical wing-nuts...

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

:

What!!!!?? You are full of beans, Doc. I'm fed up with the ravings of you medical wing-nuts...

OK. That does it. I'm outa here. Y'all take care.




Aw, hell.

I'm baaaack.

 

[sgeeeee]

. . . I'm fed up with the ravings of you medical wing-nuts...   

As a newly converted neo-con wing-nut, I am offended. How dare you associate our brand of radical nonsense with that of the medical community.

 

[jclarksnakes]

Sorry but I cannot vote yes or no in this poll. Sure, I have learned a bunch here and incorporate some of what I have learned into my retirement planning but it is not likely that anything I read here will have me changing my basic religous or political orientations. In the words of the immortal sage, Popeye The Sailor Man; "I am what I am".
jc

 

[Texas Proud]

. In the words of the immortal sage, Popeye The Sailor Man; "I am what I am".
jc

Isn't it more like " I yam what I yam"

 

[jclarksnakes]

Texas Proud,
...I say it EXACTLY like you wrote it. I had even written it out that way and changed it because I was not sure everyone would understand what I was saying. Great minds think alike....sort of....well sort of great minds.
jc

 

[LRS]

Yup, I've learned lots from this board, but I have not changed my political point of view. Nor do I want too. I do want to learn to quit arguing about issues, because it's clearly hopeless. I learn more from lurking.

I read somewhere that our inclination to be either conservative or liberal is probably inherited, along with most aspects of personality. I think if this is true, all political discourse is inherently futile. Politicians would have to give up persuasive speachmaking and turn to lying as their only remaining rhetorical tool. Or, duh, maybe I'm the last one in the country to realize this ...

 

[sgeeeee]

. . . I read somewhere that our inclination to be either conservative or liberal is probably inherited, along with most aspects of personality. . .

The problem with that theory is that I know people from the same family (same parents) who are complete opposites on political views. I also know many people who change political perspective dramatically at some later point in their life.

Back when I took a course on voter behavior (many years ago), the sociologists and political scientists claimed that about 2/3 of US voters were unswerving in their devotion to a single party. It broke down approximately evenly between Dems and Reps. Actually Dems had a decided advantage, but higher voter apathy. So actual voting tended to be equally split between these groups. But about 1/3 of the voters switched their allegiance often. The results of this poll don't seem that far out of line with those results.

 

[ladelfina]

people who change political perspective dramatically at some later point in their life

Yep, don't they say a Republican is a Democrat who's had his wallet stolen?

You have to also look at the different axes (social liberalism/conservatism vs. economic lib./conserv.) as did one of the political "quantification" quizzes: http://politicalcompass.org/index

I had a pretty conservative dad, and that got me started out.. in opposition. Maybe if he'd been a hippie I've been a Young Conservative, who knows?    My sister, OTOH keeps moving rightward! I think it's somewhat based on fear, and also the fact she has two young kids -- she's fried, and responds to the emotional components.

--
I can't say my mind has been changed by the forum, but as someone else said, my horizons have been broadened, and I've stood corrected on occasion.  I know some folks can do without the political discussions here, but I find them valuable; I check out a number of political sites (both left and right) and you tend to find just the "true believers." Here there are people from a range of political complexions and I appreciate that! I know some people say "I just want financial info" but money and choices are SO tied up in economics, which of course leads to politics, that it's hard not to have opinions about things one way or the other.

--
Sibling update:  ESCALATION.
2000-2002 she sends me links to Andrew Sullivan
2002-2004 llinks to the National Review
2004-2006 links to Hugh Hewitt
September 10, 2006: link to Michelle Malkin

It's official! She's jumped the shark.

 

[HFWR]

Wha?? No Ann Coulter? :

 

[astromeria]

Ann Coulter: proof that hair bleach destroys minds! And somebody feeed that beast--she looks half-starved, reminds me of a neglected mutt, all snarls and whimpers.

 

[LRS]

Guess I haven't caught Ann Coulter at her best. The only time I saw her on TV, she was looking pretty wild--big weird hardo, wide staring eyes, etc.--and she was accusing the widows of WTC attack of hogging the limelight. Flecks of lather were flying out of her mouth ...