Son in vo-tech for welding. College?

[rk911]

don't force him to go to college. instead support him in whatever he chooses to do. i hated school, went anyway, didn't finish and did better than ok with my career. my wife got her BA in a field she didn't pursue and yet she did better than ok. nothing wrong with so called blue collar jobs. my plumber makes more than some white collar professionals.

 

[stephenson]

I think a HS diploma with math, physics, history, humanities, politics, chemistry, etc is invaluable, and, in some cases, is hard to regroup if missed.

Stay with your cadre, keep your social connections ...

 

[Brat]

The traditional 4-year college program isn't for everyone, even Google has dropped that requirement. Encourage him to explore a 2-year Jr. College program with a focus on welding but visit firms that hire welders so that he learns what the job entails. At the same time suggest he add other marketable skills.

Yes, CMA is a California state school but many states have tuition exchange programs. Since your wife is an academic she doubtless knows admissions officers, check that out.

 

[socca]

I grew up in a 99.9% white, affluent suburb of a major Midwestern city. Almost every adult I knew both within and outside my family had at least one 4-year college degree (many had multiple degrees). Back then, it was inconceivable that I wouldn’t pursue and obtain at least a BS (or BA). If I had grown up down in the ghetto my teenage expectation for what a “normal” life progression looks like might have been very different.

If someone tells me that they have a BS or BA from a well-respected institution, I can assume that the person has a certain level of (1) intellectual ability, (2) project management ability, and (3) maturity. Does that mean that a person lacking a degree also necessarily lacks these characteristics? Heck no! However, an academic credential provides immediate, easily-accessible evidence of abilities and maturity that may otherwise be lacking.

My thinking on this topic is probably about 40 years out of date. Thanks to the internet, our educational institutions are no longer the sole repositories of precious human cultural jewels handed down from one generation to the next. For example, wikipedia, Google, TED talks, and The Teaching Company are mildly disrupting the old academic model.

The drama you are experiencing regarding your son’s decision not to go to college is currently playing out in a distant branch of my family. Both parents are degreed professionals; one of their kids didn’t apply to any colleges and is in a vocational program at age 19 (and living at home). What to do? Well, I suspect that this horse has long since left the barn. Like all of us, the kid (and the parents) will have to make the best deal with the world given the situation as it is.

 

[Music Lover]

But will those welders still be needed over the next 50 years?

Probably more need for welders than those with a degree in gender studies

 

[CRLLS]

I would suggest that he follow his heart and do what he likes. I would also encourage him to take a couple of night courses each semester at the local Junior college in the basics: English, Speech etc. that are requirements for an Associates degree of some sort and would be transferrable to a 4 year degree should he decide later on to go to college. This would be a step up later on in case things don't work out in the welding career. Once those basic courses are completed, some basic business courses and project management courses would help.

Not everyone is college material. Not everyone knows what they want to be when they grow up. And not all jobs require a college degree. It certainly helps to have some degree should he want to change paths later on.

 

[Bamaman]

I would take your son to an automobile assembly factory (arrange a tour if you live near one) and show him all the robots welding down the assembly line and explain to him that those jobs were once held by humans. You are correct to push him into a degree program.

Our local community college has a huge facility that's just for training for robotics. That school was a big reason that Toyota-Mazda's new factory is being built 6 miles away with an estimated 4,000 future employees.

I understand that a car factory now will have almost 200 robots of some kind doing assembly, welding, painting, etc. And it may take as many as 800 people to maintain them.

My cousin's son just finished an engineering degree in that field.

Robots are a big part of the future in manufacturing.

 

[stephenson]

Here's a huge review - folks trying to quantify ROI of colleges, levels of education, public vs private, etc ... way too big to summarize.

Your son should read it and think about the NPVs of various options.

https://cew.georgetown.edu/CollegeROI

 

[steveark]

I ran a business that had a bunch of welders. They told me that it's a young man's game requiring a lot of awkward stances welding in hard to access spaces. If he had the temperament and leadership skills to weld for a few years then to start his own business it is a much faster track to wealth than being a doctor or an engineer. My son is 36 and makes maybe $60k as a doctor in residency. True he should make 500-600k in another couple of years but a fabrication shop owner, or pipeline contracting business owner in his tenth year of business would already be a multimillionaire. My engineer daughter and professor daughter both make welder wages but don't have the upside potential of a business owner. If he isn't an entrepreneur then it would be safer to get a useful college degree.

 

[kfsinc]

DW is a College and Career Counselor at he local High School. We are an upper middle class, mostly Caucasian suburb of Chicago. Your question, is one that she deals with every day. And nearly always in the same context -- kid wants to go into the trades, parents want him/her to go to college. First question she always asks: Do you like school, and how are your grades, ACT/SAT, etc? If you're not good at high school, the chance of your success in college is very low, and you should focus on the trades. If you're doing well in school, and still want to go into the trades -- by all means, go into the trades. Jobs are plentiful, and pay well and you can always pick up the courses you need for a bachelors -- maybe a with a focus on something welding related -- or even focused on how to start and run your own business. We have several close fiends in the trades -- one started as a brick layer -- he now has 30 plus people working for him and is turning down work. The other started as an electrician -- at a little over 50 years old he FIRED two years ago. He splits his time between his second home in Naples where he keeps his 34 foot boat. When not there, he's here in the burbs, on a very nice lake with his other very nice boat. The trades are very lucrative, and very rewarding. Give him some guidance, but in the end he needs to do what HE wants to do. It looks like that is your current path -- and I commend you.

 

[PointBreeze]

Any chance he could do the welding, and take night courses at the College. That way he gets his cake and eat it too.

That is what I did when changing careers, took some night courses so I could see if I wanted to go in that direction all while earning $$.

Completely agree. I did the same thing when changing careers in my late 20’s.

And, the cost of him going to college now instead of welding right away should include his lost wages for all those years...

 

[brwesi]

I didn't go to college or trade school, just went to work, didn't really have a choice. I learned to weld, run wrenches and put in a full day for who ever was paying my wages. Today I run my own company, going into our 31st year. No robot will ever go into a manufacturing facility, trouble shoot a malfunctioning machine, figure out the repair and make it. I had and have a passion for what I do. We have never advertised a day. Have not borrowed money in 25 years, put 4 kids thru college. We are expensive to hire and have more work than we can say grace over. A very good living can be made without the 4 year degree. If your son is passionate, support him and ignore the naysayers who don't have experience in the field. Good, honest, hard work will still go a long way.

 

[imnontrad]

Welding is a great career especially for someone who wants hands on work. Many people in the "blue collar" professions no only have higher salaries than those with a degree, but little/no student debt. Plus many go on to start their own company.
He might decide to start at welding and after a few years go to college for a welding engineering degree. but either way, I bet at 28, he will be a LOT richer than someone who just finished medical or graduate school!

 

[jjuneau]

Share this with him. I thought I would go to trade school to become an auto mechanic. Then I chose to attend college as a business major, but ended up teaching. I loved teaching and still do. Having gone to college, I still could have chosen to work as a mechanic, and with my business training would have been prepared to start my own business. Had I not gone to college, I would not have found my way to the career choice I loved. I still like working on cars and have owned a few classics. Even just a year or two of college will likely be beneficial, and he can always do welding if he wants to. Lots of years ahead.

 

[Global Wizzo]

Get him start he welding and if he can, look at a mechanical engineering degree working in welding and weld design. Should take him far.

 

[427Vette]

I didn't go to college or trade school, just went to work, didn't really have a choice. I learned to weld, run wrenches and put in a full day for who ever was paying my wages. Today I run my own company, going into our 31st year. No robot will ever go into a manufacturing facility, trouble shoot a malfunctioning machine, figure out the repair and make it. I had and have a passion for what I do. We have never advertised a day. Have not borrowed money in 25 years, put 4 kids thru college. We are expensive to hire and have more work than we can say grace over. A very good living can be made without the 4 year degree. If your son is passionate, support him and ignore the naysayers who don't have experience in the field. Good, honest, hard work will still go a long way.

Thanks for joining our forum and congratulations on your success.

 

[movingrightalong]

I have hired very skilled technical labor (in software) for over 20 years. While that technical work requires a degree, I have found over time that people with the combination of technical skills and a liberal (like humanities, not liberal politically) education bring outsized value in a field of otherwise super-smart technical talent. I think your choice is more about "both" rather than "either," and I'd vote for "both" with a slight bias toward going to school full time, and welding part time while in school if that's possible.

Either way, he's on a GREAT track. You and he have a lot to be proud of and a lot to look forward to.

 

[travelover]

Get him start he welding and if he can, look at a mechanical engineering degree working in welding and weld design. Should take him far.

I agree - welding is fun until you have to do it hours on end in bad weather in awkward positions for a boss that is dumber than you are. Then, a degree starts to look good.

 

[indiajust]

To address rural exposure shortcomings... Insist on a gap and tour. Send forth and explore work around the country.. globe. Far cheaper than education and far more useful.

Management education useless. Most companies drink their own koolaid. Nuclear welding or other specialty and certifications far more useful. Steer clear of unionized BS.

 

[SpinDoctorTX]

I didn't go to college and as I rose in my career it did hold me back from some opportunities. While I don't regret my decisions, I can see where other choices would have made a difference. OTOH, my choices got me where I am (retired 3 yrs @59), so that's good enough for me.

With free college in play, I'm inclined to agree with others who encourage that be taken advantage of.

BTW if you are near a coast, underwater welding pays big bucks. It's dangerous though.

One of the neatest people I've ever known was a welder with whom my dad built stock cars in the 60s. We rented a guest house in Brookfield IL from his parents, and they worked on that car all of the time- all year. Some of my favorite memories were of the racetrack in Lyons (I think) as we kids were allowed to go into the pit & eat endless junk food (by our current standards).

 

[CRLLS]

I didn't finish college either. I was fortunate to move forward in my career of electronics new product development due to my OTJ learning and my demonstrated abilities. Others always knew me an could recommend me for a job opening. Today, that career path is pretty much dried up, as I found when reorg'ed at age 55. Things have changed. Today, one needs a degree to get past the headhunter's 1st gate in order to get a resume sent on to a prospective employer. With no degree, getting a jo in a technical field is virtually unheard of today. Certainly will get worse with time IMO.

 

[Buckeye]

Any chance he could do the welding, and take night courses at the College. That way he gets his cake and eat it too.

That is what I did when changing careers, took some night courses so I could see if I wanted to go in that direction all while earning $$.

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[fireorbust]

I built myself on my mechanical skills and business savvy...If your son displays both of those traits, let him go for it. If he just wants to weld for a wage, he may not FIRE, but maybe he'll be just as happy.

My daughter wanted to be a hairdresser at 16. By 18 she decided to join the army. Since then, she finished her degree, got a great job and her first house. She's making 70K with 40K already in her 401K (sorry for all the K's).

Your son may change his mind 10 more times before he turns 18. Try not to steer him too much.

 

[Brat]

My nephew hated high school (OK, it was a highly competitive academic school). The HS counselor recommended a program at the local CC where he could take automotive classes (his area of interest) and finish his HS classes. He did that, was hired by Costco working in the tire department. Time passed, Costco promoted him to lead, then supervisor. He met and married a Costco employee who ended up as a manager for a major insurer. Costco kept him on the payroll as he followed his wife's career from city to city While working he earned finished college taking many classes on line. He accepted an offer from the State of CA.

His very academic brother is working on a Master's degree, earning substantially less.

 

[Amethyst]

I wonder how important it is to make that college decision early when you are as young as possible. In his late 20s, my Dad became an apprentice electrician (he eventually worked his way up to Master). He started as a cable-splicer, since he'd landed in high voltage construction. This was physically demanding work. I have no idea how it compares with welding, in that respect.

At any rate, he tried to work full-time and take electrical engineering classes at night. Even though he liked his classes (or so he told us kids many years later), he finally gave up. I asked why. "I was falling asleep behind the wheel and at work," he said.

My brother did better. He majored in EE at the USNA, which is also a physically demanding environment where you don't get a lot of sleep! But he was only 18 when he started.

Any chance he could do the welding, and take night courses at the College. That way he gets his cake and eat it too.

That is what I did when changing careers, took some night courses so I could see if I wanted to go in that direction all while earning $$.