Son in vo-tech for welding. College?

[Freedom56]

My 16 year old son is a junior in high school. He goes to vo-tech for welding. He absolutely 100% wants to work as a welder for his career. He's on the fence about whether or not he wants to go to college. My wife and I both strongly want him to go. My wife is a college professor and I am a doctor, so our own biases toward higher education are clearly at play here, so I figured I'd seek opinions here as well, as I know there is a broad range of occupations and education here.

We're looking at a bachelor of technical leadership degree, which is geared toward those working in blue collar industries to move into supervisory/management positions. My wife took him on a tour of the campus today, and he actually seems fairly excited about going this route. My thoughts on it are that firstly, having a degree will put him ahead of his peers for promotions, and secondly, if he were to ever be injured, he'd have a lot better shot at moving into a less physically demanding white collar job. And this last point is most important to me, as I have many patients with a particular skill set whose medical condition doesn't allow them to work in that industry, and they then struggle to find other work/go on disability.

Also, because my wife works at a state university, tuition is free, and room and board are discounted, so financially it will not be a burden for us. My biggest concern is that he will give up four years of earnings for a degree that may not ultimately earn him any more money.

What do you guys think?

I would take your son to an automobile assembly factory (arrange a tour if you live near one) and show him all the robots welding down the assembly line and explain to him that those jobs were once held by humans. You are correct to push him into a degree program.

 

[427Vette]

I would take your son to an automobile assembly factory (arrange a tour if you live near one) and show him all the robots welding down the assembly line and explain to him that those jobs were once held by humans. You are correct to push him into a degree program.

Or you could take him to several of the other sites where human welders are still needed and talk to actual people about their jobs so he can get a broad based view of the trade and not just the automobile assembly line.

 

[Bruno]

Am I the only one around that our high school taught Wood and Auto Shop, Welding and Home Economics. Might be what part of the problem is today. College is not for everyone and more should be going to Vo-techs to learn a skill. I took a 1 year auto mechanics class ended up going to work for a Gas Company making more than my BIL who was a School Superintendent. Just because you take a welding class does not mean you have to be a welder the rest of your life. Most welders i know where not very smart but made a lot of money.

 

[Freedom56]

Am I the only one around that our high school taught Wood and Auto Shop, Welding and Home Economics. Might be what part of the problem is today. College is not for everyone and more should be going to Vo-techs to learn a skill. I took a 1 year auto mechanics class ended up going to work for a Gas Company making more than my BIL who was a School Superintendent. Just because you take a welding class does not mean you have to be a welder the rest of your life. Most welders i know where not very smart but made a lot of money.

No I took metal working and wood working in high school. I'm glad I did as it has made me very handy around the house. But welding is a job where robots do a much better job than humans. His son is 16 years old with a half a century ahead of him before retirement. Do you think that job will be safe over the next 50 years? Not everyone has to go to college, but there are more secure positions in technology, healthcare, and biotechnology, that don't require a university degree. If you want to build things, work for a company like Boston Dynamics (If you can't beat them, join them).

 

[Freedom56]

Or you could take him to several of the other sites where human welders are still needed and talk to actual people about their jobs so he can get a broad based view of the trade and not just the automobile assembly line.

But will those welders still be needed over the next 50 years?

 

[dirtbiker]

Thanks for all the insight, suggestions, and opinions. It's actually nice to see the differing opinions on this, as it gives us something to think about.

As long as my wife continues teaching full time in the state university system, he will be eligible to attend with free tuition. There are no plans on her leaving the university any time soon. She expects to continue working there until retirement in 20 years.

 

[marko]

IMO, your worst case scenario is this:
Kid drops out of college either through poor grades or just doesn't like it.

Then goes into welding with the idea in his head that he's failed his parents, failed at school and is now a welder as merely a default.

OTOH, if he starts in welding as his own career choice, then later decides on college to improve his situation and, whether he stays or doesn't, his head is in a different place.

Other scenarios of course....

 

[MichaelB]

But will those welders still be needed over the next 50 years?

That’s an important question. The BLS Occupational Handbook projects that segment to grow, but slower than average (link here). In a post industrial economy, that seems intuitively correct.

Just about any profession can be rewarding if one makes it into the top tier. I think the important questions are not about the profession but how the person plans to rise above the average and then stay there.

 

[427Vette]

But will those welders still be needed over the next 50 years?

That’s hard to say but I don’t see robots building and fabricating structural building steel off of blue prints or any other type of custom work for that matter. Robot welders apparently have their place in large manufacturing facilities but I am betting that is a fraction of actual welding jobs out there.

Do we really know if any of our occupations will be there in 50 years?

As a parent I would be concerned and doing some research on the possible health issues of prolonged welding. There is a lot of smoke inhalation and fine metal dust particles.

 

[Mykle57]

a slightly different idea ... take about $1k (from what you planned to save for his college) go to a Harbor Freight and get him a enough equipment and a bottle of gas to do some basic welding... he'll either excel or become bored with it and move on.

If it's the latter, welding equipment can easily be resold. If he takes off with it then you'll know he's serious.

 

[OldShooter]

a slightly different idea ... take about $1k (from what you planned to save for his college) go to a Harbor Freight and get him a enough equipment and a bottle of gas to do some basic welding... he'll either excel or become bored with it and move on.

If it's the latter, welding equipment can easily be resold. If he takes off with it then you'll know he's serious.

Ack! I couldn't disagree more with this.

First, one of life's important rules IMO is: "Do not buy junk tools."

Second, the stuff that HF sells is completely different than the serious equipment DS is currently training on. So different as to probably be useless.

Third, having a welder and a bottle of gas gets you nothing. You need a welding table, test coupons to weld, stock from which to cut the coupons, and a shear to make the cuts.

Background: I have taken welding courses and currently have a Miller Dialarc 250HF in my garage. This is an older TIG welder that I used in fabricating various bits and pieces when I was racing formula sports cars. From experience, welding is not something that one can learn by playing around in a residential garage with amateur equipment.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

That’s an important question. The BLS Occupational Handbook projects that segment to grow, but slower than average (link here). In a post industrial economy, that seems intuitively correct.

Just about any profession can be rewarding if one makes it into the top tier. I think the important questions are not about the profession but how the person plans to rise above the average and then stay there.

Welding also has its health risks, particularly lung cancer from the fumes. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-welding-cancer/more-evidence-welding-fumes-raise-lung-cancer-risk-idUSKCN1SR2IA

Every blue-collar-job takes its physical toll, but it's hard to avoid breathing in vaporized metals. Just something to be aware of.

 

[marko]

OP, I'm sure you're also aware that the children of highly educated, successful parents face additional, unspoken and social pressures when they choose alternative avenues of life than their parents.

 

[catii]

If he also enjoys diving, let him study nuclear welding. I was a Project Engineer designing nuclear reactors, & my welders were making much more than I was!

 

[38Chevy454]

X2, while a small welder at home can be useful, what your son should do is take formal welding training at the junior college or at a welding school. There he will learn and have the resources to have a solid base to grow from.

Ack! I couldn't disagree more with this.

First, one of life's important rules IMO is: "Do not buy junk tools."

Second, the stuff that HS sells is completely different than the serious equipment DS is currently training on. So different as to probably be useless.

Third, having a welder and a bottle of gas gets you nothing. You need a welding table, test coupons to weld, stock from which to cut the coupons, and a shear to make the cuts.

Background: I have taken welding courses and currently have a Miller Dialarc 250HF in my garage. This is an older TIG welder that I used in fabricating various bits and pieces when I was racing formula sports cars. From experience, welding is not something that one can learn by playing around in a residential garage with amateur equipment.

 

[Car-Guy]

Other considerations. You can make decent money and usually find work in that trade, but welding over the long haul is hard on the eyes and lungs. Not to mention it's usually hot and dirty work and often dangerous. I've done enough arc and gas welding to appreciate the skill it takes and realize that's not something I'd want to do as a career.

A good math background beyond just the basics is really needed to be a welding pro. Geometry, Trig, etc....

 

[fasteddie911]

I'd have him try out welding first, work a bit, learn about himself and the world, then decide on college. He may reconsider welding, want to go into engineering, etc. IMO, I think a lot of young folks would be better served by this approach than jumping right into college and figuring things out then or even after college. I've known plenty folks who didn't know what to do in college or thought they know what they wanted only to change their minds once working. I can definitely understand the challenge in dealing with the perceptions and expectations of the kids of high-earning, highly-educated professionals.

 

[Teacher Terry]

My ex had a BA and MA and preferred working as a tool and dye maker. He never considered his education a waste of time and money. If he is willing to go to college I would do that first. In my career we helped injured workers in the trades get into other jobs but retraining when older is hard both financially and academically.

 

[stephenson]

First, most 16 yr old males are poor decision makers. This means, to me, they should be directed a bit.

I would recommend he skip the welding courses in high school and get a good high school education, adding more math, physics, chemistry, etc in his last two years.

If still interested in being a welder, given even a moderate amount of spirit, he can do that following graduation from HS, or even on weekends, as an apprentice.

He might also consider some time away from home with pseudo parents - the military. Lots of hands on technical training and they sort to see which you are best suited.

 

[pacergal]

Let your son follow his desire. I would encourage him to talk with his vo tech teachers/counselors to find out the best way forward for that career; then let him work it for a while.
We have tons of building going on around here, signs up all the time looking for trade people: plumbers, welders, pipe fitters, etc.

Many people just may not be college material, or may need a few years to get there.
College is always there in the future, when HE wants to go and is ready, and knows what he wants to study.

 

[Ed B]

Here is an accredited engineering technology degree with a focus on welding. Perhaps the best of both worlds.

https://www.letu.edu/academics/engineering/materials-joining.html

 

[Chuckanut]

There is something to be said for people who can make things.

I imagine a welder can have a good career and certainly out earn academics with a degree in Art History or Sociology. I would be careful about working on an auto assembly line. Those jobs can be taken over by robots and/or people who work more cheaply in foreign countries,

OTOH, a welder who can go to a site and repair a broken item, or modify something to make it more versatile should not have the above problems.

I don't know much about welding, but from what I have heard one has to know a lot about different materials how they intereact with each other and the welding process, and how to make a weld that will stand up to the stress and strains of the environment that surrounds it. It's certainly not a job for the ignorant and indifferent.

 

[dirtbiker]

A few things:

He's 2.5 years into his welding program at the vo-tech. The students can choose the basic welding program, and if they do extra work, they can specialize in different types of welding, and will get a certificate in that area. My son is specializing in TIG welding. Going through the program has definitely bolstered his love of welding. This isn't to say that he couldn't have a change of heart after he actually starts working though...

I do have a welder I've had for years at home that he also uses, not a nice Miller, ESAB, Lincoln, Hobart, or the like, but he does get to practice on it at home. It's an Eastwood multi-process with like a 40-60% duty cycle. I've been toying around with the idea of upgrading to better name brand one and passing it on to him once he's out and has his own place. The multi-process is fine for my needs... and now that he's started welding, I leave all welding projects to him, as he can outweld me easily.

I do know there are long term safety considerations with welding, as there are with many blue collar jobs. At his school, they have a robust ventilation system, and they use respirators with the dangerous metal welding projects. I've stressed the importance of proper ventilation and respirator use with him. I hope he heeds my warning when he gets out in the work force.

As far as outside pressure due to my wife and I's professions, we have been supportive of his choices. I wasn't crazy about it at first, but I don't want to push him into something that I want him to do, and he then ends up being unhappy in the end. One of my best friends went to medical school because his parents wanted him to be a doctor. They are an Indian family, and family pressure in his culture is very strong, so he followed his family's wishes even though he hated medicine. He wanted to do computer programming. He ended up dropping out after three years with a big student loan debt, and then ended pursuing computer programming anyhow. He's way happier being out of medicine and doing what he loves. I don't want my son in the same situation.

In addition, his mother and I are divorced and both remarried. His step-father is a farmer, so the outside social pressure isn't as high for him in this regard.

I've been trying to convince both of my sons to go into the military, either reserves or active army. I've been in the Army National Guard for 19 years and counting, so I know firsthand the benefits, both directly and indirectly from military service. My 16 year old so far is not interested. My 15 year old is somewhat interested. One thing I will say, however, is that the military is not very good at sorting people to see what each recruit is best suited for. Certain MOSes (military occupation specialty) may be unavailable due to low ASVAB scores overall or in certain areas, but largely recruiters push people toward areas the army is deficient in, and as a last choice, will put them into what they actually want. When I was enlisting, I wanted to be a medic. I had to basically argue with my recruiter to not enlist as a tanker, as that was the needs of the army at the time. Eventually I told him that I wouldn't join unless I was a medic, and he relented.

 

[karen1972]

Its his life, if this is what he loves, then he should go for it. I think the only question to ask really is what does he think he wants to do with the welding, that answer will likely steer towards if he actually has a plan as there are lots of type of welding jobs. It also may give you better insight if there is some degree out there that would help him longer term if he changes his mind.

My niece wants to be an artist, I'm like great, so you can be an artist but also be an industrial designer, an architect, etc.. ie you will learn all the same skills but may be able to apply it to a job you will get paid for or in your sons case a job he could still have if he got injured. My BIL was a welder and got hot metal in his eye and switched careers as he was always afraid after that of going blind.

 

[Freedom56]

That’s an important question. The BLS Occupational Handbook projects that segment to grow, but slower than average (link here). In a post industrial economy, that seems intuitively correct.

Just about any profession can be rewarding if one makes it into the top tier. I think the important questions are not about the profession but how the person plans to rise above the average and then stay there.

The BLS does not consider how CEOs think today or how technology can impact the labor market. Any high paying blue collar job is a target for automation. Automation companies are targeting those higher paying trades as the ROI is much more attractive. Where I use to work, our factory use to employ highly paid laser welders for precision welding of small assemblies. Our manufacturing director replaced three high paid laser welders with one 4 axis automated precision welder. The quality of our assemblies increased significantly and the investment paid for itself within 9 months. This is the world we live in like it or not.