The Electric Vehicle Thread

[Fermion]

I can offer a coupon code good for $3 off a large pizza at Papa Murphys

 

[Samsung4321]

simple approximation ... Couple hundred feet. Give or take.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equations_for_a_falling_body

Google knows.

 

[NW-Bound]

I can offer a coupon code good for $3 off a large pizza at Papa Murphys

No deal. When I was doing consulting, my pay/hour was a 3 figure.

Maybe Samsung can google a free answer for you.

I am going back to testing my new powerful LFP cells.

 

[zinger1457]

Wonder how the ZEV (zero emission vehicle) mandates that are now required by 13 states (California, Colorado, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, and Vermont) will affect the distribution of new EV's in the next few years. From my understanding the ZEV mandate for the included states requires that each manufacturers total sales be made up of a certain % of EV's, PHEV's, or other zero emission vehicles or face fines. I know Hyundai is currently limiting EV/PHEV sales to these 13 states, same with the RAV4 Prime, probably will see other manufacturers follow suit.

 

[DayDreaming]

If these numbers are accurate the cost to insure a Tesla sure are high, at least compared to what I currently pay.
https://www.valuepenguin.com/tesla-car-insurance

I have a Tesla Model Y on order, possibly arriving next month. My current auto insurance company quoted me $1219/year to insure the Model Y when it arrives. This is for 1 driver, good driving record, located in NJ.

 

[Midpack]

Toyota and Subaru collaborated on this EV platform.

Subaru collaborated on all wheel drive for the bZ4x, but it was developed by Toyota. And the Solterra will be built by Toyota along with the bZ4X. Subaru couldn’t begin to develop an EV from scratch on their own, they don’t have the resources. Good thing they’re partly owned by Toyota…

 

[NW-Bound]

Here's an instant solar charger for your EV. Installed in 4 minutes!

I checked out the cost. It's $61K, and I am not sure if it includes delivery.

If Koolau can get a spot for it at his high-rise condo parking lot, the 4.3-kW solar array will generate 7,100 kWh/year, which is worth $2490/year at the average cost of $0.351/kWh in Honolulu.

The unit comes with different battery options of 22/32/43 kWh. The best daily output in Honolulu is 22 kWh/day in August, so the unit can squirrel up to 2 days of solar juice if you don't need it right away.

If you deplete your EV battery, it will take 4 to 5 days of good summer days to charge it back to full, and longer in the winter.

What I scratch my head on is that they claim a 120-mph wind load. Is that with the unit free-standing, or with a few pallets of brick weighting down on its base? I need help from a civil engineer to understand this.

 

[GTFan]

I know Hyundai is currently limiting EV/PHEV sales to these 13 states, same with the RAV4 Prime, probably will see other manufacturers follow suit.

I hate this with a passion. I know they're still in compliance mode but they're not going to get more adoption with these stupid limits. The Prime would be a hot seller in most states.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

If these numbers are accurate the cost to insure a Tesla sure are high, at least compared to what I currently pay.
https://www.valuepenguin.com/tesla-car-insurance

I pay $1800 for each Tesla. Those numbers must be for somebody with a half dozen DUI'S.

 

[Midpack]

I know Hyundai is currently limiting EV/PHEV sales to these 13 states, same with the RAV4 Prime, probably will see other manufacturers follow suit.

I hate this with a passion. I know they're still in compliance mode but they're not going to get more adoption with these stupid limits. The Prime would be a hot seller in most states.

I'm not sure I have hard numbers but it may have to do with current production capacity as much as anything. The Ioniq 5 went on sale in S Korea & Europe first, so the US isn't going to get many for (quite) a while? I did find articles saying Hyundai is looking to add EV production capacity in the US.

[I do agree the Ioniq 5 and it's Hyundai/KIA cousins are the most tempting EVs that aren't Teslas that I have seen so far. YMMV]

To meet the anticipated demand, Hyundai may be looking into expanding its EV production capacity in the U.S. with a new plant in Tennessee, or by retrofitting lines in its current factories in Georgia and Alabama. The decision hasn't been finalized yet, tip Korean industry sources, as Hyundai Motors is mulling its options.

Back in March, for example, newspaper Korea JoongAng Daily reported that the Ioniq 5's production schedule was slashed considerably at the automaker’s Ulsan, South Korea plant from 10,000 to 2,600 units [per month], due to a shortage of electric motors. [Tesla produced about 77,000 units per month in 2021, and they're nowhere near keeping up with demand]

This issue couldn’t have come at a worse time considering the Ioniq 5 has been an instant hit, racking up more than 35,000 reservations at home in South Korea. It also enjoyed huge initial success in Europe as well, where the first 3,000 cars available to preorder were sold almost instantly. Hyundai even went on to claim the Ioniq 5 represents the firm’s most successful new model launch in Europe so far.

Hyundai aims to kick off customer deliveries of the electric SUV in South Korea and Europe during the second quarter of 2021. The goal is to sell 70,000 units before the end of the year and at least 100,000 units annually starting with 2022. It remains to be seen whether the mechanically related Kia EV6 will be impacted by this issue, although there is a distinct possibility its electric motors could come from a different supplier.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

Hyundai just shut down their Engine Development Center as part of their shift to EV's.

 

[Fermion]

If Ford comes out with a AWD Transit with a decent size battery, I have a design in mind for 3600 watts of solar to fit on the roof rack mounts. It would be comprised of nine 400 watt panels, each 72" x 40" x 1.25", with electric actuators to slide three panels out from each side (when stationary obviously) much like how RV slideouts work. The whole unit should be less than 6 inches tall and with a small front fairing should not subtract more than a few percent from the highway mileage based on my current driving with a boat on top of our ICE Ford transit.

In the right parts of the country, this could add 20kWh per day to the battery and would be so great for camping or remote operations.

 

[Zathras]

I hate this with a passion. I know they're still in compliance mode but they're not going to get more adoption with these stupid limits. The Prime would be a hot seller in most states.

I agree with you. I am hopeful that as more states join up, it will reach a point where auto manufacturers just give in and do what it takes to sell the cars nationwide.

 

[cbo111]

I have a Tesla Model Y on order, possibly arriving next month. My current auto insurance company quoted me $1219/year to insure the Model Y when it arrives. This is for 1 driver, good driving record, located in NJ.

My 2021 Tesla Model Y runs $910 annually through USAA. The Tesla replaced a 2016 Subaru Outback which cost $880. So not much of a bump for me.

 

[ERD50]

Wonder how the ZEV (zero emission vehicle) mandates that are now required by 13 states (California, Colorado, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, and Vermont) will affect the distribution of new EV's in the next few years. From my understanding the ZEV mandate for the included states requires that each manufacturers total sales be made up of a certain % of EV's, PHEV's, or other zero emission vehicles or face fines. I know Hyundai is currently limiting EV/PHEV sales to these 13 states, same with the RAV4 Prime, probably will see other manufacturers follow suit.

I hate this with a passion. I know they're still in compliance mode but they're not going to get more adoption with these stupid limits. The Prime would be a hot seller in most states.

I agree with you. I am hopeful that as more states join up, it will reach a point where auto manufacturers just give in and do what it takes to sell the cars nationwide.

I'm confused by the responses from GTFan and Zathras.

What's to hate? If some states have set rules that X% of sales must be EV/PHEV, then the mfg are forced to play this game. Of course they are going to prioritize sales to those states.

And if the Prime, as you say, would be a hot seller in other states, then certainly the mfg would be selling there as well, unless there are other considerations. That's just good business.

So the other considerations could be: Not enough supply of parts for cars like the Prime (battery supply?). Or maybe, in order to hit sales targets of X% in the states with mandates, they need to lower the price in those states. That lower price means lower (maybe even negative) profits. It makes no sense to sell at a loss w/o some other incentive (the stick of no sales at all in that state, in this case).

This is the EV1 story all over again. History repeats itself. I don't think these state mandates are a good approach at all. And if the concern is global warming, then state by state shifting of artificial demand makes no sense, it's a global issue, not a state-by-state issue.

What do you think the mfg are doing that should be 'hated'? A car mfg doesn't have a goal of 'more adoption' of EVs, they just want to sell cars at a profit, to keep the company viable and keep employing people. If they can do that with EVs, they will, but they will do it whatever way they can. Right now, the best way of doing that seems to be by limiting sales to those states with mandates.

What is it you think they should be doing (w/o ignoring realities)?

-ERD50

 

[Koolau]

We carry this in our van, so don't have to go outside. Haven't used it, but it's reassuring:

Thanks. I'll suggest our son carry one in his Model 3 - just in case we're along when he gets stuck in traffic. Actually, though it's a long shot, imagine having one of these with you when I95 is stuck. Set it by the side of the road with a large drape-covering and "rent" it to desperate fellow travelers. Talk about gig work. YMMV

 

[Koolau]

Here's an instant solar charger for your EV. Installed in 4 minutes!

I checked out the cost. It's $61K, and I am not sure if it includes delivery.

If Koolau can get a spot for it at his high-rise condo parking lot, the 4.3-kW solar array will generate 7,100 kWh/year, which is worth $2490/year at the average cost of $0.351/kWh in Honolulu.

I'd have to negotiate with the board to move my parking spot to the roof (currently considered a less than ideal spot due to the sun load on the car AND it's up several stories.) BUT, that unit would never get to the roof anyway. It's too big to fit through the low ceilings of the garage.

Any more "bright" ideas?

 

[Samsung4321]

Any more "bright" ideas?

Certainly - affix panels directly to un-parked sunny driveways.

 

[Koolau]

Certainly - affix panels directly to un-parked sunny driveways.

I see a day when most business will cover their parking lots WITH solar panels. Folks love to park out of the sun. Imagine, parking in the shade at Walmart and juicing up your car for free. Win/win/win (business/car-owner/environment) YMMV as always.

 

[NW-Bound]

I'd have to negotiate with the board to move my parking spot to the roof (currently considered a less than ideal spot due to the sun load on the car AND it's up several stories.) BUT, that unit would never get to the roof anyway. It's too big to fit through the low ceilings of the garage.

Any more "bright" ideas?

Heck, talk about the roof, it's super easy to have solar panels up there.

You just get some cinder blocks from Home Depot to weight down the mounting frame. No need for the expensive $61k self-contained parking cover.

 

[Koolau]

Heck, talk about the roof, it's super easy to have solar panels up there.

You just get some cinder blocks to weight down the mounting frame. No need for the expensive $61k self-contained parking cover.

Our condo board has actually looked into this, but the main issue is interfacing the extra electricity with the electric company. Unless we use a set up such as yours (essentially manually off-grid) it just won't work. Too bad as we get good sun most of the time here on the leeward side.

 

[NW-Bound]

Our condo board has actually looked into this, but the main issue is interfacing the extra electricity with the electric company. Unless we use a set up such as yours (essentially manually off-grid) it just won't work. Too bad as we get good sun most of the time here on the leeward side.

But that's where the EVs come in. It's an off-grid system to charge EVs only, and is independent from the grid.

And if the cars are not parked at home to get charged, they have battery storage like the self-contained solar parking shade structure for later transfer to the cars at night.

If you want green, you need to open the wallet. It's just about money. Well, it's always about money.

 

[NW-Bound]

And actually, my system is not manual, and as the transfer switches are automated.

During bad cloudy days when there's no point in running all the inverters due to weak output from the solar panels, I manually override some of the auto transfer switches to run some circuits on grid.

The inverters draw 25W each while idling, and that's 0.6 kWh/day for each of the 4 inverters or 2.4kWh/day total. When the solar output is low, it's better to run only 1 or 2 inverters for longer time than to run all 4 for a shorter time. You save on the overhead loss.

I have not gotten to the point to make the system smarter.

 

[ERD50]

I see a day when most business will cover their parking lots WITH solar panels. Folks love to park out of the sun. Imagine, parking in the shade at Walmart and juicing up your car for free. Win/win/win (business/car-owner/environment) YMMV as always.

But that's really not the right way to think about it - juicing up for 'free' (and I know you didn't mean it literally).

Of course, there is the cost of initial purchase and installation to amortize over the life of the system (which I know you are aware of). But the real point is, forget about whether those solar panels are charging cars are not. They produce energy that can feed the grid. Doesn't make one wit of difference if they are charging EVs, or (say on a day where all the drivers are out and about), that energy is running refrigerators and lights and ventilation systems and TVs and computers and servers all across the grid. The grid is agnostic, a kWh from solar is a kWh that some other power plant doesn't need to produce. If you envision the benefits of solar panels mounted on a structure that forms a roof over parking lots, it really makes no difference if there are EVs under those panels or plain old ICE.

Ahhh, but you do have some other circumstances to consider:

Our condo board has actually looked into this, but the main issue is interfacing the extra electricity with the electric company. Unless we use a set up such as yours (essentially manually off-grid) it just won't work. Too bad as we get good sun most of the time here on the leeward side.

OK, I think this means that the grid on your island just can't manage any additional solar. So OK, an off-grid system to charge EVs is an option. But that's also going to get expensive I think. It would be hard to match supply of solar during the day to the resident's EV charging needs. A couple options:

A) Under-size the solar panels. So even when only a fraction of the EVs are parked at home during the day, none would be wasted. Low cost, but also low benefit.

B) Go bigger, and add batteries to better match variable 24 hour demands. But batteries add cost, and will also need ~ 20~25% more solar for every kWh out to make up for losses. So every stored kWh means an additional amount of panels.

C) Find other loads in the complex that could be supplied by solar, like pool pumps, lighting, ventilation systems, etc (with at least a small battery pack to avoid short term fluctuations from clouds, etc). These loads, and EVs, could be switched from the solar to the main grid to maximize the draw on solar.

Similar to NW-Bound's system, the solar/batteries would never feed the grid, so the utility (I think) should be OK. Only your loads would be able to automatically switch from solar to grid when solar output is low, and back from the grid to solar as solar ramps up in the AM.

As long as the utility sees there is no path from the solar back to the grid, I think they are happy. And I'd think that system "C" would be the most cost effective and might pencil out at the high kWh rates you have there. But there are also design and review costs which are going to require a PE.

-ERD50

 

[NW-Bound]

Similar to NW-Bound's system, the solar/batteries would never feed the grid, so the utility (I think) should be OK. Only your loads would be able to automatically switch from solar to grid when solar output is low, and back from the grid to solar as solar ramps up in the AM.

As long as the utility sees there is no path from the solar back to the grid, I think they are happy...

-ERD50

Ah, but thinking a bit more, I can see some new problems down the road.

Right now, in the summer I do have enough battery to store the solar juice to not switch to the grid until after 8PM, when the rate drops down from 24c/kWh to 8c/kWh. And in the hottest summer day, I barely made it past 8PM.

But, but, but if there are more people like myself, the grid supplier suddenly sees a huge demand after 8PM when tons of people have their batteries running out. What is not a problem when there's only one NW-Bound doing it becomes a problem when there are too many NW-Bounds.

It's never simple.


PS. The running out of solar juice right after 8PM is not because of my battery capacity. Rather, it's because the ACs use so much during the day that there's not enough surplus to stuff into the battery to use after the sun is down.

Hence, I bought 6 more panels recently to install soon in spring, in order to be ready for summer 2022.