The Kitchen Sink...

[Another Reader]

My original cast iron kitchen sink was set on a plywood counter base and the plywood base was mudded over with mortar and tiled. Rounded tiles were set over the edge of the sink, allowing the water to flow into the sink from the tiled counter.

The dishwasher died, and in pulling it out, I discovered the sink had rusted out and is leaking at the joint where the garbage disposal is attached. A drop in sink would be easy to replace, but it looks like the tile will have to be removed to get this sink out. No matching tile, of course, as the house is 31 years old.

One idea is to carefully cut the plywood from underneath around the sink and somehow anchor the new sink to the remaining plywood, possibly anchoring some strips of plywood to replace what was removed in some way. The other option would be to look for a drop in sink that is larger and could fit over the existing hole.

Has anyone replaced a sink like this without removing the existing tile? I will need to hire someone to do this, but have no idea where to start.

 

[njhowie]

Can the sink be repaired in place? Can you just replace the leaking joint, or the part which is leaking/rusted connected to it?

We had a similar issue and were able to replace the part underneath which was rusted out.

 

[euro]

have you considered trying to patch it? Or is it truly rusted out with big parts missing? Perhaps a new gasket and some plumbers putty will hold you over a few more years? Just a thought! I do not have any good suggestions for the repair job - unfortunately, tiles are not my thing.

 

[pjigar]

May be new counter top all together if you can swing it. I learned the hard, new beats repair in long run. You got good life out of the original setup. Counter top is not very expensive and you will be able to avoid future leaks.

 

[calmloki]

Real good chance that a new sink basket, serious cleaning, plumber's putty and new rubber gasket under the sink will get you by. Otherwise I agree with pjigar. New counter top will be easier and better than trying to patch in a sink.

 

[Another Reader]

It's at the joint the cast iron rusted out. Do you think a plumber would be able to salvage this? No way am I replacing mudded tile in an entire kitchen.

 

[jazz4cash]

Drop-in style sink that overlaps the counter or a huge farm style sink the required some partial demo to for in. A slight leak undetected under the sink can do a lot of damage

 

[davebarnes]

Gut the kitchen.
25% of all renovations start with a broken appliance.
This is your chance.

 

[Another Reader]

Gut the kitchen.
25% of all renovations start with a broken appliance.
This is your chance.

Are you paying?

I would be happy with a working sink and dishwasher at this point. I do like the farmhouse sink idea, but I'm too sick to deal with even that amount of renovation right now. Finding someone to do it would be tough as well.

 

[harllee]

AR, I was hoping seeing this thread on your sink that you were feeling better. How are you?

 

[Bamaman]

31 years with an existing kitchen is long enough. Time to put in granite--or some other solid stone like surface with a new built in sink at a minimum.

But it also is probably time for new cabinetry too.

Rust is there for a reason--to tell you it's time for change.

 

[calmloki]

I'm guessing that you haven't removed the garbage disposal yet and are just looking at the leak and big rust stains. Maybe I'm wrong, but I hate to tear stuff apart without knowing just how it will get fixed fast. If you haven't pulled the garbage disposal and sink basket yet then that is step one and I'd really try a new basket and putty.

If it doesn't work, well, demo is easy, and I'd suggest visiting the big box store (first!) and buying counter top like this: https://www.homedepot.com/b/Kitchen-Countertops-Laminate-Countertops/N-5yc1vZc3bg

Believe me - as a landlord I'm all about curing problems with the least drama, cost and effort. Maybe contact a laminate store and get a bid - could be $1000 or so. Last counter top we had replaced in a "U" shaped 8x5 apartment kitchen cost me $275 to have my carpet guy do demo, install new counter top plywood, install laminate, and cut sink hole. Think materials ran about the same. That was mid 2019, and his 4th counter job for me. It was ok, he's getting there. I'd have done a better job, but I wasn't doing it! An owner cares more and that can sometimes be a decent substitute for experience.

 

[davebarnes]

Are you paying?.

No, but I can show you how to spend $70K renovating your kitchen.

 

[Another Reader]

No, but I can show you how to spend $70K renovating your kitchen.

This is Silly Valley. I can show you how to spend $200k on a kitchen...and $300k on your back yard.

Houses in my neighborhood go from $1.6 to $2.2M. Tract houses on large lots. No laminate going in here. I want to fix the existing sink area to make it functional. If I recover from COVID, I might remodel. It's about efficiency and convenience now.

 

[Sunset]

OP - Some pictures would help.

At first I was thinking you had a sink mounted under the plywood, rather than dropped into the plywood hole.

I think there is a sink with enough overlap that could drop into the opening after you remove the existing one, possibly some tile might have to be cut to make the hole bigger.
But some photos would show how the tile and sink meet on top, plus from underneath.
Also get a photo of the connection that is rusted, often these things are separate pieces and can be removed and replaced from the plumbing.

 

[JoeWras]

OP - Some pictures would help.

At first I was thinking you had a sink mounted under the plywood, rather than dropped into the plywood hole.

I think there is a sink with enough overlap that could drop into the opening after you remove the existing one, possibly some tile might have to be cut to make the hole bigger.
But some photos would show how the tile and sink meet on top, plus from underneath.
Also get a photo of the connection that is rusted, often these things are separate pieces and can be removed and replaced from the plumbing.

This.

OP doesn't want to gut, and that's fine. There are sinks in many different sizes. A drop in through the old hole would be a decent solution. Hopefully a standard one would work. Otherwise, look online for different sizes.

Pictures would help, but from your description, this would mean carefully cutting the tile that rests on the sink so the old sink can come out, OR, cutting the sink and leaving the tile alone. The drop-in would go over the whole mess. A decently skilled person can do this with a cut-off wheel.

OP: by drop in we mean that there is a flange that rests on the top of the counter. It is a different look since you'll have a very slight flange over your tile, but could be an affordable solution. This 1/16" lip is not a big deal for cleaning. You need to get any leak fixed so you have to do something.

Here's an example:

 

[Winemaker]

There is/was a product called Iron Cement, last time I used it it was in a 4 ounce can. If you are able to get to the area from underneath, clean the area real good with a rotary wire brush on a drill. Let it dry real good. Mix up the cement with water to the consistency of peanut butter and apply to damaged area. Allow to dry completely before use, and put standing water in it. I sold this product when I worked in a hardware store as a teen, and I have used it myself twice in rental properties; once to repair a tub from the bottom, and once to repair a cast iron pipe. The repair on the cast iron pipe lasted over 15 years, I replaced it last year when a tenant damaged it when moving out. Good luck.

 

[old medic]

No, but I can show you how to spend $70K renovating your kitchen.

And here we are rebuilding an entire house and trying to stay under $35K total....LOL

I would be more inclined to think that you have a leaking seal at the basket or disposal joint, and your just seeing surface rust. Disassemble, clean up, repair and paint any rusted area and replace everything from the Baskets to the drain line.
If the sink is truly rusted through (I Seriously doubt) the lipped drop in would be my choice.

 

[Another Reader]

I have photos but I do not understand how to post them.

 

[calmloki]

Get the pics on your computer, then click the advanced button below quick reply. Click the paperclip to attach an image. Click "choose file", browse your computer and "open" the picture file. Think that will do it.

 

[Chuckanut]

do you need to replace all the tile? Perhaps the tile right next to the sink can be replaced with new tiles in an 'accent' color that adds a spot of visual interest.

 

[Another Reader]

Lets see if this works...

 

[Another Reader]

There is/was a product called Iron Cement, last time I used it it was in a 4 ounce can. If you are able to get to the area from underneath, clean the area real good with a rotary wire brush on a drill. Let it dry real good. Mix up the cement with water to the consistency of peanut butter and apply to damaged area. Allow to dry completely before use, and put standing water in it. I sold this product when I worked in a hardware store as a teen, and I have used it myself twice in rental properties; once to repair a tub from the bottom, and once to repair a cast iron pipe. The repair on the cast iron pipe lasted over 15 years, I replaced it last year when a tenant damaged it when moving out. Good luck.

Is this product still available? I can't find it online...

 

[calmloki]

Ok. That is very save-able. The sink basket was over-tightened on installation. Replace basket, maybe put some rust kill on , maybe use a nice skim coat of plumbers GOOP to fill any unevenness, install new basket and garbage disposal. Don't over-tighten. Consider replacing faucet while the garbage disposal is out of the way.

I've repaired old steel sinks with way worse problems and the repairs are multiple years old.

 

[JoeWras]

Pictures help! You did it, they came through. And your original description was very good and pretty much what was expected.

Before you go too far, you need to get that disposal out of there and see what you have on the cast iron sink. I know it looks bad, but it still may be primarily surface rust. This came about due to a slow leak around the top sink flange edge, then down below, likely because the original putty failed.

If the top sink surface where the flange rests is in good shape, you may have a prayer of just replacing the disposal. The problem is you can't see if it is until the disposal comes off. Underneath, as long as the cast iron isn't too far gone, the backup flange should be able to make good contact and hold firm.

It is hard to see from afar, even with these very good pictures.

Edit: I see calmloki and I are thinking alike.

P.S. just to be clear, I think we both are suggesting NEW parts, including disposal. This is not a time to reuse.