The Shoddy Workmanship Thread

[freedomatlast]

It seems increasingly difficult to hire good help for anything these days or to have any quality services performed at a reasonable price. Since I usually do just about everything myself, this usually doesn't present a problem for me. But recently, since I'm currently busy with a consulting gig, I did hire a contractor to do some extensive renovations on a rental property. Overall the experience so far has been extremely positive, except for plumbing work the contractor hired out to a subcontractor. The first picture shows how the plumber left the shower valve hanging, with absolutely no support except for the Pex lines and fittings. Since they wanted to close up the wall today to stay on schedule, I spent some time last night ripping out the valve, adding wood for support behind the valve, changing out the plastic nutted fittings with brass since you couldn't tighten the plastic nutted fittings since they hit the support brackets and then added screws in the brackets and support for the lines. This is in an area where there is no access from the wall on the other side, so it had to be done right.

 

[Luvtoride]

Freedom, where are you at? Are you available for hire?? I need a plumber now too. Great job!

 

[JP.mpls]

It seems increasingly difficult to hire good help for anything these days or to have any quality services performed at a reasonable price. Since I usually do just about everything myself, this usually doesn't present a problem for me. But recently, since I'm currently busy with a consulting gig, I did hire a contractor to do some extensive renovations on a rental property. Overall the experience so far has been extremely positive, except for plumbing work the contractor hired out to a subcontractor. The first picture shows how the plumber left the shower valve hanging, with absolutely no support except for the Pex lines and fittings. Since they wanted to close up the wall today to stay on schedule, I spent some time last night ripping out the valve, adding wood for support behind the valve, changing out the plastic nutted fittings with brass since you couldn't tighten the plastic nutted fittings since they hit the support brackets and then added screws in the brackets and support for the lines. This is in an area where there is no access from the wall on the other side, so it had to be done right.

Freedom, I'm not a professional, but I dabble with plumbing. Your work looks nice.
I'm planning on converting a tub/shower setup into a large walk in shower, and I'm planning on doing it myself.
I'm also going to use PEX for the first time.
I was having some concerns about the type you used with the metal compression clips, versus the kind with the expensive tool that expands the tubing.
It looks like you have no concerns using the type shown in your pictures. Do you recommend using it?
Thanks, JP

 

[pb4uski]

That's nuts. Nicely done. Those plastic nutted fittings inside a wall look like a recipe for disaster. I'm skeptical that would comply with code. Was the sub a licensed plumber?

We have a guy who did our kitchen remodel and a number of other projects in our neighborhood. He's not an old guy, I'm guessing mid 40s... but he is definitely old school in terms of quality of his work. If he has to spend an extra 20 minutes to do it right then that is what he does. Immigrated to the US from Croatia. We need more immigrants like him.

 

[donheff]

I wish I had your DIY skills. I wouldn't even have known the original guy screwed it up.

 

[freedomatlast]

Luv - I'm in southern PA and if you were closer, I'd help you out for free. I don't mind doing this stuff in small doses, but I'm up to my ears in a consulting gig at the moment.

JP - When doing PEX jobs, I've used the metal fittings and copper crimp rings for decades with zero failures. I will not however, under any circumstances, use the plastic fittings. I have had to replace two of those in the last 15 years on other people's houses (not installed by me) that failed. Fortunately, in both cases the failure was caught early enough to avoid a major disaster. I know many are now using the expanded tubing method. That's supposed to be the latest and greatest method, but I'll wait a few more years until I embrace that. I feel safer with the crimp rings because I come from an industry that has used crimp technology since the 50's and I have a thorough understanding of it. Also, when you buy the crimping tool, it comes with a GO / NO GO gage that you can use from time to time to verify the crimp is good and then you'll know when the crimp tool needs adjustment as it wears. In addition, for the beginner, I believe the crimp method offers less variables for failure as compared to the expansion method.

PB - I hear you on the absolute stupidity of using those plastic nutted fittings inside an inaccessible wall and what made it even worse was that they couldn't be tightened fully because of interference with the mounting bracket. Just asking for trouble and almost guaranteeing failure. He was supposedly licensed but I had limited contact with him due to the fact that my contractor hired him, not me.

All - If anyone else has shoddy workmanship experiences on their home, car, appliance repair, HVAC installation or repair, etc., please feel free to share.

There's got to be thousands of stories waiting to be told and some of us may gain knowledge through the negative experiences of others.

 

[JoeWras]

Oh geez, that is nuts (referring to OP's first post). Plastic nuts? No support? Come on, man! I have yet to meet a plumber who would use the plastic nuts like that in any other application than a toilet fill valve.

So what, he/she expected the valve to have mechanical integrity by the pressure of the escutcheon plate against the tile? That's just BS.

Great job on the fix, OP.

 

[folivier]

Nice job! I'd show those pictures to your contractor to let him know. Might or might not get you a discount but at least he will know what his sub did.

 

[Ronstar]

Nice job!

 

[finnski1]

Good thread. The lack of caring by some "professionals" is one of the main reasons I try to do most of the work myself. Even built 80-85% of my house myself.
Also getting anybody to show up at all is a nightmare around here.
And of course the markup for many jobs, many simple, is beyond ridiculous.

Nice job on the fix,
I have used Pex with the crimps as well without issue. I have also used shark bite fittings with no issues as well but the fittings themselves are fairly pricey.

 

[38Chevy454]

I agree, it seems anymore if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself. I also am able to do most all home repairs or upgrades, or car repairs and modifications. Not only saves money, but I am also assured the job is done right. No pictures right now, but I have had many instances of fixing something supposedly done by a professional.

 

[Music Lover]

Not so much shoddy workmanship as very poor planning and layout. I was at my friend's today doing some electrical and helping him hang a few sheets of drywall. He had a plumber rough in a new bathroom in the basement. Due to miscommunication and the plumber saying "I can't put that there" the shower pan was put right next to the toilet. Unfortunately, the glass door that came with the shower pan (under the cardboard and step stool) will open towards the future toilet (black pipe). It will probably only open 45 degrees.

 

[Music Lover]

Problem #2. The cleanout was put right in front of the entry door to the bathroom:

 

[pb4uski]

... Unfortunately, the glass door that came with the shower pan (under the cardboard and step stool) will open towards the future toilet (black pipe). It will probably only open 45 degrees. ...

Can he return the glass door and just put in shower curtain? Not as nice as a glass door but easier in and out.

 

[Sunset]

Can he move the door, which seems a bit narrow anyway ?

 

[JoeWras]

Sometimes it doesn't show up for a decade or two

Here's an example from an old deck. This deck post support rotted to nothing. It is, uh, a bit alarming. The poor workmanship cut the life of this support in half.

Once cleaned up, we saw the issue. The second picture shows that the workers pushed the cast-in-place post base into the footing while the concrete was cured too much, so there was a 1/2" divot which hid under the post. This retained a constant pocket of water. They simply should have pushed it in a few minutes earlier. Alternatively, they could have finished it with a top layer of epoxy. Anything to get rid of that pocket of water.

The fix was a new post base with a stand-off. This post base is secured with threaded bolts in fastener epoxy. The divot was filled with epoxy to avoid the water pocket.

 

[Badger]

My first real experience with learning how to build/repair was in '73 when I bought a VW beetle and was told I needed to have the valves adjusted every 3k miles and it would cost $45. I used the money to buy a set of Sears tools and a book to learn how to do it myself. Turns out it was easier than I thought to tune up with points and plugs, change the oil, and adjust the valves. Saved me about $100 each time I did it myself. Then my first house a couple of years later needed a considerable amount of repair so I learned a bit about carpentry, plumbing, a wiring. Later I built additions to my present house as well a full remodeling of the kitchen and bathroom. Al this ultimately led to designing and building a house in the mountains myself with some help from my wife.
The experiences taught me to be skeptical about "professional" repairs and rely on my own ability in most cases. The majority of the time I have been able to do repairs/construction as good as or better than hiring out. Lately age, strength, etc. is slowing me down so I have to thoroughly vet and hired repair persons.
No one cares as much about your repairs as you do.

Cheers!

 

[Music Lover]

Can he return the glass door and just put in shower curtain? Not as nice as a glass door but easier in and out.

Can he move the door, which seems a bit narrow anyway ?

The door is on the long side which is 48". There is a fixed piece of about 16" and a door of 32" which seems to be a reasonable size. It came as a set with both the shower pan and door so they can't return part of it. There is also a fixed piece of glass for the short side.

It's similar to this pic

 

[Fermion]

I saw you used PEX-A, which I also have used in the past.

We have started plumbing our new house with PEX-B and have the $$ Milwaukee battery operated expansion tool with all the various heads. I am having trust issues, although it is extremely easy to use...put a ring over the tube, expand the tube, slide it on to the fitting, then let it shrink back to original size....and that is supposed to be all you do. Just doesn't feel right lol.

 

[easysurfer]

Nice job! Looks like one of those you should send the contractor a bill deals .

 

[JoeWras]

I saw you used PEX-A, which I also have used in the past.



We have started plumbing our new house with PEX-B and have the $$ Milwaukee battery operated expansion tool with all the various heads. I am having trust issues, although it is extremely easy to use...put a ring over the tube, expand the tube, slide it on to the fitting, then let it shrink back to original size....and that is supposed to be all you do. Just doesn't feel right lol.

The pros love it. But they won't care 10 years from now. I'm still on the fence.

 

[JP.mpls]

Freedom, I'm not a professional, but I dabble with plumbing. Your work looks nice.
I'm planning on converting a tub/shower setup into a large walk in shower, and I'm planning on doing it myself.
I'm also going to use PEX for the first time.
I was having some concerns about the type you used with the metal compression clips, versus the kind with the expensive tool that expands the tubing.
It looks like you have no concerns using the type shown in your pictures. Do you recommend using it?
Thanks, JP

Freedom, thanks for the positive comments regarding your long successful usage of PEX with the metal rings.
You gave me confidence to go ahead and use that type of PEX on my bathroom project.
JP

 

[street]

Problem #2. The cleanout was put right in front of the entry door to the bathroom:

View attachment 44297

WOW!
That is a hard one to imagine someone could place that clean out where it is at. To me that is more of a poor planning issue then #1.

 

[Chuckanut]

I don't have a picture of this since I managed to get it replaced before the installer left.

I was having some nice tile installed at an entrance to my home. It has the look of colorful travertine rock. For some reason one tile was a blank, no texture pattern, shades, or difference in the colors, just a bland yellow-tan tile. The installer had put it almost dead center in the room where it stood out like a big red pimple on the nose of a pretty girl. Thankfully, the installer was able to remove it and install a proper tile. Yes, there were several extra tiles left over. He did not have to use the blank.

But, get this, he still used it inside a small closet space off the entrance. If it ever happens again, I will immediately take a hammer to the offending object.

 

[Music Lover]

WOW!
That is a hard one to imagine someone could place that clean out where it is at. To me that is more of a poor planning issue then #1.

I attribute it to laziness, my friend went with the low bid and the plumber probably just slammed it off as quick as he could.