The Success Indicator

[Lazarus]

Most first level supervisors work a lot of un compensated time. Striving to get another level up so they can work even more. Maybe one out of 25 do. Far better way to spend your time is planning FIRE rather than chasing the rainbow.

 

[Midpack]

Most first level supervisors work a lot of un compensated time. Striving to get another level up so they can work even more. Maybe one out of 25 do. Far better way to spend your time is planning FIRE rather than chasing the rainbow.

Obviously it's easier to reach FI if you're paid more, like management. But we all make the choices that meet our needs. I wouldn't have been able to RE without moving into management early on...

 

[audreyh1]

Read the book first, he makes excellent points and has lots of data to support the fact that the most long term successful companies are those with the best CEO's, and they come from a wide cross-section of industries, including an airline, a steel company, companies with no unions and companies with strong unions.

I was actually talking about the comments in this thread.

 

[Lazarus]

Obviously it's easier to reach FI if you're paid more, like management. But we all make the choices that meet our needs. I wouldn't have been able to RE without moving into management early on...

Obviously you were not tempted to increase your lifestyle to match your management position. Most every one I saw at work did with a few exceptions. Even the young new hires drove more expensive cars than I did.

 

[Alan]

I was actually talking about the comments in this thread.

oops, my mistake

 

[Midpack]

Obviously you were not tempted to increase your lifestyle to match your management position. Most every one I saw at work did with a few exceptions. Even the young new hires drove more expensive cars than I did.

Actually I did 'increase our lifestyle' somewhat, but we still practiced LBYM first and foremost. We grasped the meaning of 'the most important things in life aren't things.' We gratefully lived/live better than most, but didn't care to keep up with our contemporaries (all still working BTW). Taking the management path offers options...you don't have to be self-absorbed and heartless like some would like to believe.

 

[Meadbh]

Obviously it's easier to reach FI if you're paid more, like management. But we all make the choices that meet our needs. I wouldn't have been able to RE without moving into management early on...

In my line of w*rk (physician) earnings go down when you go into management. The quickest way to FIRE is to do as much clinical work as possible, to the exclusion of every other activity. Put yourself on the call schedule one night in four, and work every day in between. With any luck you will be so exhausted you won't have time to spend any money. Just ask Rachel!

But I'm finished with all that now, thank goodness!

 

[Purron]

I'm a complete failure. But don't care.

 

[audreyh1]

oops, my mistake

No prob, I wasn't specific.

 

[calmloki]

Is this a joke, or do you mean "accepting responsibility for her failures"? I think the list maker means that people should accept responsibility for their own failures.

I think that's what the list maker meant as well - just am more amused misunderstanding. But really, my gal accepts responsibility for damn near anything around her; has an expansive view of her sphere of influence, and tries to fix it all.

Even that is controversial. Many psychologists feel that laying off one's failures onto circumstance is a good strategy for staying happy and undepressed. Seems to work for politicians and CEOs.

Most of my life I've graded myself on a curve, and a C was satisfactory. Lately I have thought that I might have been able to do better. Still, we all have some narrow passages to steer through, and I suppose we should be gratefuil for not breaking up on the rocks.

Her dad was more a "why didn't you get an A+ instead of just an A kinda guy". positive and negative results, as with most things.

Ha

.

 

[Lazarus]

Taking the management path offers options...you don't have to be self-absorbed and heartless like some would like to believe.

You must not have worked for the same company as me. I would have described most management at my company as near sociopathic. Calling them self-absorbed and heartless would be too kind.

But not all. I am still friends with two of my managers who are retired. They would agree with my statement as well.

 

[kumquat]

Obviously it's easier to reach FI if you're paid more, like management. But we all make the choices that meet our needs. I wouldn't have been able to RE without moving into management early on...

Nor I, those ESO that increased almost 20 times put me over the "number".

Obviously you were not tempted to increase your lifestyle to match your management position. Most every one I saw at work did with a few exceptions. Even the young new hires drove more expensive cars than I did.

I drove the same old Ford Tempo for the first 15 years of my management status. We did, however, upgrade our house. Our old one was paid for. We bought the new one with cash. Then we sold the old one. Not too many 'pawns' have the income to do that.


No-one mentioned this part. In some ways it makes anything else you did trivial.

One of the nice perks of management is the ability to further the careers of worthy people. I retired from mega-corp 5+ years ago. I was one of 4 (at the time) middle management people. Just before xmas, I dropped in for the first time in 3 years. Turned out I knew about 1/2 of the employees in my old department. It also turned out that 5 of 6 middle management positions were held by people I had hired and mentored. All were really good people.

You can make a difference, even if you join managemant (as I did) for the bucks.

 

[Sandhog]

The Success of What?

Doesn't most society measure one's success with wealth?

I considered myself successful in divorcing two of my ex-wives. Unsuccessful in achieving my ER Goal due to my success in getting out of miserable life that I had in marriage. I'm happy but over work and underpaid.

 

[donheff]

I like the list since I meet most of the criteria except for planning and journaling. Shows you can do OK without those attributes. And I suspect kept to do lists for the wrong reason. The management BS is you need them to prioritize but I kept them because I would completely forget stuff otherwise. Practice implemented after I missed an important meeting and had to make up a BS emergency to cover my butt.

 

[Sandhog]

I like the list since I meet most of the criteria except for planning and journaling. Shows you can do OK without those attributes. And I suspect kept to do lists for the wrong reason. The management BS is you need them to prioritize but I kept them because I would completely forget stuff otherwise. Practice implemented after I missed an important meeting and had to make up a BS emergency to cover my butt.

I personally think it's good traits of one's character but hardly doubt The Success Indicator. If one wants to become a successful long distance runner, does having those attributes help. I think not.

What attributes one needs to be happy? Does achieving happiness considered success? Much like no one can tell others how much they need to FIRE.

Success is very subjective. In the eyes of my younger self, I'm a failure. But with two divorces and two career changes, I'm success when I look myself in the mirror. Hate working but happy I'm achieving my savings goals and working toward FIRe without E but hope at least little e (much later than I had planned but hopefully in next 4 to 6 years)

 

[rbmrtn]

You must not have worked for the same company as me. I would have described most management at my company as near sociopathic. Calling them self-absorbed and heartless would be too kind.

But not all. I am still friends with two of my managers who are retired. They would agree with my statement as well.

That sounds very familiar.

I drove the same old Ford Tempo for the first 15 years of my management status.

One funny incident I remember. Had a thing called employee of the month. One of the perks was a parking spot in the reserved section. Well the employee of the month parked his old beater in his spot and went in to work. One of the big shots showed up in his 7 series BMW and so disgusted having to park next to the beater he called security and had it towed away.

 

[Midpack]

Taking the management path offers options...you don't have to be self-absorbed and heartless like some would like to believe.

You must not have worked for the same company as me. I would have described most management at my company as near sociopathic. Calling them self-absorbed and heartless would be too kind.

But not all. I am still friends with two of my managers who are retired. They would agree with my statement as well.

That sounds very familiar.

I must have been lucky. We certainly had our asshat managers, but I'd guess it was easily less than 1/3rd. But maybe my perspective as a former fellow asshat manager skews my estimate.

I'd wonder why someone would stay if (nearly) all the managers were "sociopathic" - despite how difficult it is to change jobs/careers.

 

[rbmrtn]

I'd wonder why someone would stay if (nearly) all the managers were "sociopathic" - despite how difficult it is to change jobs/careers.

I worked for a decent supervisor that tried to keep the sh*t from us. They paid me a lot of money. They tended not to mess with us too much, they didn't know what engineers did exactly but they knew the plant couldn't run without us. When I had enough ( BS and money ) I quit!

 

[Lazarus]

I must have been lucky. We certainly had our asshat managers, but I'd guess it was easily less than 1/3rd. But maybe my perspective as a former fellow asshat manager skews my estimate.

I'd wonder why someone would stay if (nearly) all the managers were "sociopathic" - despite how difficult it is to change jobs/careers.

Pension. Company was bought out about halfway through my career. Too much invested to leave.

 

[Midpack]

I worked for a decent supervisor that tried to keep the sh*t from us. They paid me a lot of money. They tended not to mess with us too much, they didn't know what engineers did exactly but they knew the plant couldn't run without us. When I had enough ( BS and money ) I quit!

Pension. Company was bought out about halfway through my career. Too much invested to leave.

Excellent reasons, you made conscious choices vs just complaining. I did the same, though I didn't complain about the asshat managers that much. I knew they'd still be there 'trying to buy happiness' long after I left...and they are.