Transition back to...the office :(

[kgtest]

Getting pressure and in the news folks have or are transitioning back to office work. Large setting cubicle office work...not single isolated offices.

What say you? Me, I want to stay away from the commute and office. Period.

 

[Ready]

I think it’s unrealistic to have people going back to an open cubicle office at full capacity until everyone has been vaccinated. I would assume they would require people to wear masks under the current environment. That would seem to make people less productive than working from home where they don’t have to worry about virus transmission.

Many companies are talking about making work from home a permanent solution. Talk to your leadership about the benefits of this and see how responsive they are.

 

[JustCurious]

Many companies are talking about making work from home a permanent solution.

Can you name one? And do you mean all workers working from home?

 

[Ready]

https://www.flexjobs.com/blog/post/companies-switching-remote-work-long-term/

https://smallbiztrends.com/2020/06/work-from-home-permanently-survey.html

 

[Bamaman]

My neighbor is a retired Air Force Colonel--an attorney. He's doing the same job for the Army in retirement. He's only been in the office 2 days in the last year, and says that they may not go back in person until September. He often works late into the night--choosing the hours he works.

But I just don't know how companies can get nearly as much work out of remote employees. So many are still in lock down at home waiting for a company telephone to answer. It would be like in "home detention" having to stay at home all day, every day. Managing remote employees would appear to be difficult too.

Many of my work years were in a high pressure office environment, and we had to make quick minute to minute decisions. We learned how to react to certain situations from others around us. I don't know how remote employees can develop the thought pattern needed to do some jobs not having others around.

My wife's doctor said that no matter what goes on, he'll never go back to 100% person to person medicine--preferring telemedicine much better.

Surely we'll see some level of remote employees in the future. But in many cases, transitioning back to the office will be much more efficient. And many jobs need interaction amongst employees.

 

[EastWest Gal]

Not all workers can work from home. But many can. In the hospital I worked for, most computer issues were handled by phone call. They were all available to come over to help certain issues, but I could see most work from home. Many retail chains have support services who work dealing with issues where they don't need to be in an office all the time. I have a friend/former coworker, a nurse with major issues with her back, who got a job with an insurance company, helping patients access services, and works from home through phone and computer in a dedicated home office system supplied by the company.

Here is a list of companies that have gone to at least partial work from home:

https://buildremote.co/companies/companies-going-remote-permanently/

DS has been working from home for a year with his part time job. His best friend went to working from home (computer) and won't be going back into the office ever. Music teachers have found that getting their private students to record their playing has caused their students to improve because they are forced to listen to themselves externally.

 

[Andre1969]

I've a government contractor, and most of our offices are 1- or 2-person setups. However, mine is right across from an exit stairwell, and close proximity to a conference room and one of the kitchens. So, a high-traffic area in general. I flat out told my managers it was a COVID cesspool, and I would NOT be returning, to that particular office.

Anyway, it might be a moot point. The last I heard, they're planning to start bringing us back into the office, on a limited basis, sometime in July. But, they're going to revisit that, in April, so it may get pushed back. I have a feeling they're not going to be having fully-staffed offices though, and conference rooms packed to the gills are probably a thing of the past.

Depending on how the stock market and economy are doing, I intend to plan my departure around the time they start bringing us back to the office. After having this year of relative freedom, working from home, I actually get the shakes when I think about returning to the office!

 

[EastWest Gal]

My neighbor is a retired Air Force Colonel--an attorney. He's doing the same job for the Army in retirement. He's only been in the office 2 days in the last year, and says that they may not go back in person until September. He often works late into the night--choosing the hours he works.

But I just don't know how companies can get nearly as much work out of remote employees. So many are still in lock down at home waiting for a company telephone to answer. It would be like in "home detention" having to stay at home all day, every day. Managing remote employees would appear to be difficult too.

Many of my work years were in a high pressure office environment, and we had to make quick minute to minute decisions. We learned how to react to certain situations from others around us. I don't know how remote employees can develop the thought pattern needed to do some jobs not having others around.

My wife's doctor said that no matter what goes on, he'll never go back to 100% person to person medicine--preferring telemedicine much better.

Surely we'll see some level of remote employees in the future. But in many cases, transitioning back to the office will be much more efficient. And many jobs need interaction amongst employees.

I can believe that, though you cannot draw blood or do a physical exam remotely. But you can easily discuss lipid issues. Before I retired, secure system cell phone pictures were used between physicians in different hospitals for a "curbside consult" to determine whether or not an actual consult was needed, and also, if a patient needed to be transferred to a specialty hospital, which is not a small deal. Telemedicine can improve physician's lives. If I could have done some telemedicine long ago, I would not have suffered the burnout of not being able to see my family enough.

 

[38Chevy454]

One big problem I see with working from home is for new employees. In traditional office setting the new employee has their coworkers to learn from and ask them questions while the new employee is learning the job and the company. No way that can happen if a new employee is at home. That resource is gone. It may be fine for existing employees to work from home that already know the job. But how are new employees going to get trained except for the in-person office?

 

[Ready]

Just because we always used to do something a certain way does not mean it’s the only way to do it. Technology continues to advance to make remote workers more productive. Old methods can be replaced with new methods.

There will always be some jobs that require you to be there in person. But many of the jobs that were office based prior to COVID have successfully transitioned to fully productive remote positions.

 

[Cobra9777]

One big problem I see with working from home is for new employees. In traditional office setting the new employee has their coworkers to learn from and ask them questions while the new employee is learning the job and the company. No way that can happen if a new employee is at home. That resource is gone. It may be fine for existing employees to work from home that already know the job. But how are new employees going to get trained except for the in-person office?

My first job out of college was a factory cost accountant. I worked at a huge plant but I was the only cost accountant. Even my boss knew almost nothing about the details. My closest peer was at another plant in another city. I was on the phone with him 3-4 times every day with multiple questions. This worked extremely well for me.

That said, it was extremely beneficial for me to be around other people in the factory office, especially process engineers, equipment technicians, and product managers. They helped me learn the technology, the products, and the business. It was this knowledge and visibility that helped grow my career at a rapid pace. I could have been a fine cost accountant working remote for many years. But I don't think my career would have advanced as quickly as it did without the constant interaction with other functional areas and managers. I think that's a bigger problem than just learning the basics of a new job.

 

[tb001]

One big problem I see with working from home is for new employees. In traditional office setting the new employee has their coworkers to learn from and ask them questions while the new employee is learning the job and the company. No way that can happen if a new employee is at home. That resource is gone. It may be fine for existing employees to work from home that already know the job. But how are new employees going to get trained except for the in-person office?

I think this really depends on the position. There is a lot of screen sharing and messaging technology that makes training very doable.

I know several people who have started new jobs in the last year working remotely. The learning the job bit has been relatively easy. The harder part has been developing relationships with co-workers to build trust and rapport.

I loved wfh when I was able to do it. That said, it’s very work ethic dependent. I honestly felt like I could’t step away to even go to the bathroom in case someone called while I was away. I didn’t want there to be any concerns about productivity or me doing other things on ‘their’ time, so I probably went overboard.

But I’ve noticed a general decline in professionalism over the last year. I don’t know if it’s more casualness associated with wfh or perhaps COVID fatigue of being an essential worker or always on or people trying to manage kids and work. Probably a mix.

I know people who are antsy to get back but I would guess that a LOT of people are not going to want to go back into the office unless it’s absolutely necessary.

 

[Aerides]

A lot depends on the culture and company leadership. If they want 100% back in office, then it doesn't matter much what your preference is. In many surveys I've seen, the general preference seems to be split the difference: WFH most of the time with office days a couple times per week.

This is a good time to have a chat with your boss if you have a strong preference that differs from theirs, especially if it's evident that your productivity has stayed high. Of course, it's never just you. If the team or company as a whole hasn't managed remote work well, it's likely they just want to solve the problem with geography vs. addressing their lack of management flexibility. And they aren't going to want to make exceptions.

Good employees don't go bad when they WFH. Bad ones, and weak leadership of them, just get exposed.

It does seem odd that an employer is pushing now, in March, rather than setting expectations for a 4Q return to normal.

 

[JustCurious]

https://www.flexjobs.com/blog/post/companies-switching-remote-work-long-term/

You said "many companies are talking about making work from home a permanent solution." I reviewed the first link you provided and it does not support that statement. Some of the companies listed indicated woking from home was an option for a limited time, through June or July or Labor Day 2021. That's not permanent.

There were a few that indicated working from home was a permanent change, but only for some workers or only for some of the time. In the case of Infosys they will "allow" 35-50 percent to work from home permanently. That does not mean they will, just that they are allowed. In the case of Microsoft it says "employees can work from home approximately 50% of their work week." In the case of Target, employees "can continue to work remotely until June 2021 with plans for a long term hybrid model."

So I don't think the link you provided supports the statement that many companies are making working from home a permanent solution, certainly not for all or even a majority of workers.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

You said "many companies are talking about making work from home a permanent solution." I reviewed the first link you provided and it does not support that statement. Some of the companies listed indicated woking from home was an option for a limited time, through June or July or Labor Day 2021. That's not permanent.

There were a few that indicated working from home was a permanent change, but only for some workers or only for some of the time. In the case of Infosys they will "allow" 35-50 percent to work from home permanently. That does not mean they will, just that they are allowed. In the case of Microsoft it says "employees can work from home approximately 50% of their work week." In the case of Target, employees "can continue to work remotely until June 2021 with plans for a long term hybrid model."

So I don't think the link you provided supports the statement that many companies are making working from home a permanent solution, certainly not for all or even a majority of workers.

This article mentions a few but as you mentioned, the larger the company, the odds are that not all employees would be able to WFH on a permanent basis.

Zillow, Twitter, Square, and other companies have also announced that employees could work from home indefinitely.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/354872

 

[pacergal]

I am currently working at a vaccination clinic 1-2 days a month. Everyone is masked, and spaced 6 feet apart.
I would feel much better if we could a t least have an open window, but the building is not designed that way.
If I had a set desk area, I would certainly have a small desk air purifier!
But I am walking around checking folks after injection.

 

[Ready]

You said "many companies are talking about making work from home a permanent solution." I reviewed the first link you provided and it does not support that statement. Some of the companies listed indicated woking from home was an option for a limited time, through June or July or Labor Day 2021. That's not permanent.

There were a few that indicated working from home was a permanent change, but only for some workers or only for some of the time. In the case of Infosys they will "allow" 35-50 percent to work from home permanently. That does not mean they will, just that they are allowed. In the case of Microsoft it says "employees can work from home approximately 50% of their work week." In the case of Target, employees "can continue to work remotely until June 2021 with plans for a long term hybrid model."

So I don't think the link you provided supports the statement that many companies are making working from home a permanent solution, certainly not for all or even a majority of workers.

You asked me to name one company that is moving to permanent work at home solution. I linked you to an article where 13 out of 23 companies mentioned having a permanent work at home solution for either part of all of its workforce. So what is your point?

 

[JustCurious]

You asked me to name one company that is moving to permanent work at home solution. I linked you to an article where 13 out of 23 companies mentioned having a permanent work at home solution for either part of all of its workforce. So what is your point?

Yes, you did name one, but my point was there are not "many" that are going to a permanent work at home solution, certainly not for all or even a majority of workers, and even for some of the workers it is not 100% of their time, and even for those workers they are being "allowed" to work from home which does not necessarily mean they will.

So while it certainly true that some companies are becoming more flexible about allowing some employees to work from home some of the time, I am not aware of any companies who are permanently requiring all employees to work from home all of the time.

 

[caninelover]

My megacorp just made an announcement last week. They will begin re-opening offices after July 4th but only a little at a time. They said people can come back at their own pace/comfort level. Long-term my department is expected to have a hybrid model of 3 days in the office, 2 days remote but they haven't indicated how they will implement it (e.g. everyone picks their own schedule or if its mandated by department). They will let some work from home permanently but we'll see.

I too would like to ditch the commute (45 min each way) and like working from home but my boss is Type A and is likes everyone if the office from 9-5.

I am only planning to work 1-2 more years so not sure if its worth making a stink over trying to remain work from home, or just go with the flow until I check out permanently. I'll have to stare at the numbers later this year and see how they roll out the return to office.

 

[skyking1]

Most of DW's crew works remote. She won't go back, if they force her to she'll pull the trigger.

 

[anothercog]

My Megacorp is expecting to bring people back in early June but I expect that will be pushed back. Also, our CEO has said she expects more flexibility in schedules when we do go back. I'm thinking I'll go in 3 days a week but I would prefer to start that at the end of the summer rather than the beginning. I still have been unable to get a vaccine appointment.

 

[disneysteve]

They’re never going to be able to put the genie back in the bottle. While many people don’t like WFH, lots of others love it. No commute. Saving on gas, parking, and wear and tear on their vehicles. Far more productive without all of the distractions and interruptions in the office setting. Able to work more at their own pace.

I think WFH will continue to be an option for many indefinitely long after COVID is behind us.

 

[Calico]

They’re never going to be able to put the genie back in the bottle. While many people don’t like WFH, lots of others love it. No commute. Saving on gas, parking, and wear and tear on their vehicles. Far more productive without all of the distractions and interruptions in the office setting. Able to work more at their own pace.

I think WFH will continue to be an option for many indefinitely long after COVID is behind us.

tl;dr - 93% of employees at my old employer have voted to continue WFH permanently. A decision is pending in the next couple of months.

This is certainly the case at my old company, which I retired from at the end of December, 2020.

I keep in touch (by text, email, and phone) with four friends who are still working there. I haven't seen them since the office switched to WFH on March 13, 2020, with the exception of two brief, distanced porch visits with a couple of them.

Two of these friends initially hated WFH and stated they could not wait to return to the office when it was safe. One of these friends had mixed feelings in the beginning, and stated she missed the office environment quite a bit. The fourth friend was just like me - she had wanted to WFH for years; she has thrived on it for the past 15 months; she never wants to go back.

A couple of months ago the organization established a "return to work committee" composed of staff members to explore the logistics of safely returning to work, and to survey staff about their preferences for WFH and their feelings about returning to work in an environment where some percentage of folks will decline to be vaccinated (for whatever reason).

I predicted that a high percentage of staff (over 50 percent) would want to WFH forever, but even I was blown away by the responses. In a company with 130 employees, 93% said they did not want to return to the office and preferred to WFH permanently! People have adapted and they have no interest in going back to the "old way" of doing business.

Not surprisingly (to my friends and me) several supervisors want everyone to return to work in person, despite the fact that productivity has been high and everyone has gotten their job done from home for 15 months. These supervisors value "face time" for its own sake, and they very much want to monitor their employees in person.

The committee is scheduled to present their findings to senior management in mid-April, after which presumably some sort of plan will be made. I imagine a "hybrid" model will be offered, with some WFH days and some onsite days.

All four of my friends mentioned above are now diehard fans of WFH and none of them want to return to in person work!

My old department has onboarded two new staff members since March 2020, as have several other departments. It can be done.

More and more applicants are turning down positions at the company because they are not permanent WFH positions. They have not been able to fill my position for this reason.

None of my four friends can afford to take a stand and leave if they are forced to return to full-time, in person work - they are in their early fifties and have not ever planned on early retirement.

I am very curious to see what the management decides to do, and what employees choose to do in response. At the very least, if they require 100% onsite work, I think they will lose a slew of the IT folks - they will go to greener pastures with the WFH option.

If I weren't already retired it would be a no-brainer for me; I would retire on the spot if required to return in person. Unfortunately not everyone has the luxury of making that choice.

 

[Ready]

Yes, you did name one, but my point was there are not "many" that are going to a permanent work at home solution, certainly not for all or even a majority of workers, and even for some of the workers it is not 100% of their time, and even for those workers they are being "allowed" to work from home which does not necessarily mean they will.

So while it certainly true that some companies are becoming more flexible about allowing some employees to work from home some of the time, I am not aware of any companies who are permanently requiring all employees to work from home all of the time.

In the one article I mentioned, it identifies all of these companies moving to 100% permanent work from home for every employee:

Dropbox
Hawke Media
Lambda School
Shopify
Skillshare
Spotify
Square
Twitter
Upwork
VMWare

So I still don’t understand what point you are trying to make. You asked me to name one company. This article named 10.

 

[retire-early]

I am on an email list of a headhunter.

The company was trying to fill a principal engineer position.
The candidate they really wanted and offered the job to ended up accepting another job which allowed either full or partial WFH.
The headhunting company in the email mentioned that the company was now open to 2 days of WFH.

In my line of work I cannot do it 100% WFH.
Writing the software can be done from home, but debugging it requires being onsite with the hardware/equipment.

I registered on my state's vaccine website today.