When to Get an A/C Recharge for Car?

[Car-Guy]

So automotive A/C electric compressors used in hybrids/EVs (e.g Prius) are less likely to leak than mechanically-driven ones?

EV's need AC ?

After reading all the EV threads and comments on this forum, I would have thought they were so "cool" they wouldn't need supplemental AC.

 

[stephenson]

Pressurized gas systems leak - the leaking can be resolved but it is more expensive than letting the refrigerant (in this case) leak out and then replenish.

The issue has never been a person or few doing this - it is when millions do it - as they likely are doing it now.

Sure, 134a is less damaging, but there wasn’t much concern with R12 for a long time. Then it was bad news.

The right thing to do is repair the system so that it doesn’t leak.

 

[Walt34]

As I understand it, the home fridge/freezer is completely sealed with lubricant in the coolant. I don't think there are any protrusions, like a shaft sticking out with a rotary seal - they are all internal, and just shut up tight with a non-moving gasket.

Exactly. The home refrigeration systems don't have the number of threaded joints that an automotive system does. Generally the only threaded joint on a home CAC is the Schrader valves used to add refrigerant. Window A/C's, refrigerators and freezers are (or used to be anyway when I worked on them) entirely sealed. When they developed a leak they were thrown out because the cost of servicing them was at or even above the cost of a new one. Of course back then the sealed system had a five-year warranty. The compressor/electric motor were entirely sealed in too, so no shafts sticking out to leak. I don't see any way to do that with an engine-driven compressor.

The right thing to do is repair the system so that it doesn’t leak.

As explained in another post it simply is not cost effective to to do that. If I can fix it myself for $30 vs paying several hundred to fix it at a shop, I can pay that $30 many times and still be ahead.

As to what is the "right" thing to do in a given circumstance, that's a matter of perspective and opinion, not fact.

 

[pb4uski]

... Seems odd that you are having to have it recharged so often. In thinking back to past cars and how long we have owned them (10 years, 6 years, 9 years being longest) we have NEVER had to have the systems recharged.

+1

 

[Koolau]

Pressurized gas systems leak - the leaking can be resolved but it is more expensive than letting the refrigerant (in this case) leak out and then replenish.

The issue has never been a person or few doing this - it is when millions do it - as they likely are doing it now.

Sure, 134a is less damaging, but there wasn’t much concern with R12 for a long time. Then it was bad news.

The right thing to do is repair the system so that it doesn’t leak.

Do I hear you volunteering to do the right thing? If you send me the $1500, I'll get mine fixed. Sound about right?

 

[Koolau]

I'm curious about this, did an internet search, didn't find anything relevant.

I've never heard of a home fridge or freezer ever needing the coolant recharged (unless damaged - probably just replace?)). Many of them (especially the older styles w/o bells and whistles), are still running fine after 30 years or more.

Cars do sometimes need a recharge. And it seems even more common with home A/C (just an observation, I assume this is true based on my experience - I've owned several cars for 12~16 years, and never had to recharge those. Had to recharge DD's, a mid 1980's model, and maybe some of my cars from the 70's. But I have had to recharge home A/C, two systems, and certainly know of others who had to as well).

As I understand it, the home fridge/freezer is completely sealed with lubricant in the coolant. I don't think there are any protrusions, like a shaft sticking out with a rotary seal - they are all internal, and just shut up tight with a non-moving gasket.

My home A/C appears the same (internal compressor motor?). I think car A/C has a drive shaft that needs a seal, so that would be a source of a leak (I wonder if they could use a magnetic coupling to avoid a rotary seal?)? But why do home A/C leaks as often as they seem to?

OK, the home fridge/freezer is in a better environment, might have something to do with it Though our 30+ YO freezer is in an unheated, but attached, garage - so it sees a wide range of temps, but a bit more muted than outdoors.

Can anyone explain this?

-ERD50

Heh, heh, I awoke one morning to the extreme smell of ammonia in the house. The fridge I grew up with 40 years earlier had sprung a leak at the old homestead I was renting at the time.

Having said that, the fridge that DW grew up with was still there and working (probably not too efficiently by comparison to the new "energy star" replacements) when her mom passed some 50+ years later! It may be the issue of "disuse" and "misuse" of vehicular ACs. NOT cycling them is a killer from what I've read. Your regular fridge ALWAYS cycles - maybe hourly - not pausing 4 months or 6 months of cold/cool weather.

The AC in a car also undergoes quite a beating every time you drive the car. Unless you live on the San Andreas Fault, your home fridge probably gets moved yearly - to clean behind it (or not). Also, your fridge has one job. Your car has many. The various car systems are rarely as robust as the ones with only one purpose in your house (how often do you have to change your home radio, or computer, or CD player?) In a car, these are all auxiliary devices. Most car companies only care that they last past the warrantee expiring - and they usually DO but JUST! Again, all that beating around and lack of being what makes the car go may be major factors in how such things are designed/executed.

No expert on this stuff, but that's my logic and YMMV.

 

[Sunset]

I always thought home A/C systems leaked because the pipes are long and installed and bent and shoved by some guys, so some weakness in the tubes are created which later is where a leak shows up.

 

[easysurfer]

I did bring my car in to shop for a/c check and recharge. They put dye in and inspected other areas to test for leak but really couldn't find any. Said the freon was just a little low so added to the proper level. Checked compressor and that is fine.

I probably could have waited until later. Oh well, next time maybe I will roll the dice .

 

[HawkeyeNFO]

Im curious, how much did the shop charge for that work?

 

[easysurfer]

Im curious, how much did the shop charge for that work?

$140 ish

 

[Car-Guy]

I did bring my car in to shop for a/c check and recharge. They put dye in and inspected other areas to test for leak but really couldn't find any. Said the freon was just a little low so added to the proper level. Checked compressor and that is fine.

I probably could have waited until later. Oh well, next time maybe I will roll the dice .

Now you'll never know But if it "still goes out on your upcoming trip" (s*** happens) at least you tried.

 

[HawkeyeNFO]

That seems fair, and now your car should be chilly for at least a couple more years.

 

[2177V]

Most leaks comes from the AC compressor which has dynamic seals. Make sure you have oil in your AC system to prevent the dynamic seals from failing. Most piping joints are static seals which rarely leaks. Another leak point is the low pressure and high pressure inlets for the AC pressure gages but the caps are your secondary seals. Seems like Japanese cars and German cars that I own....never had AC problems while USA cars always had AC leak issues or the AC compressor will go bad on me.

My recommendation: If your car needs only one can of $20 refrigerant every 3 years, I would learn to DIY. I personally preferred DIY over paying a mechanic $200. If you do the numbers, this means 30 years of DIY work = $200 assuming you only need one can every three years. Also, make sure the inlet caps are tight after you are done.

 

[tizod]

If the car is getting that old, the refrigerant from a can is a good idea - as you are adding small amounts and it has some stop leak and lube in it (but the odds it stops your leak are very low). So do a boost every year. You likely will put in very little (by design put in very little). As everything gets older the leak/lube additives are actually helpful, IMHO. And at that time there is little risk, as if it goes you're getting rid of the car anyway. As above, on a "known" day at a good time, I'd put a digital thermometer into the ducts via the vent and see the air coming out is cold enough. That starts to not work, add from can. That fails, sell car or redo AC

 

[Koolau]

Since I just had to do the AC recharge again - after 3 years - I'll mention that the whole recharge system is about $40 which contains the giant, economy sized can of replacement cooling liquid. (I know 'cause I stopped into the AutoZone to ask them which nipple to use with my old recharge system - got a chance to see what current prices are.)

For the $40, you buy the injector which has an electronic readout of (perhaps) pressure - but in any case, it's an estimate of "when you have enough replacement coolant in your system." It has the hose and the fitting for the low-pressure side nipple. IF you need even more coolant, I think the smaller cans were about $6 and I'd guess they are half the size of the can that comes with the "system." SO, if you don't need too much coolant, you get by with the initial cost of $40 and maybe have some left over. If your system is very low, you might even need to buy an EXTRA can at $6 (total = about $46.) Keep the "system" for next year or year after?? Buy cans as you need them. Simple enough as long as the leak doesn't get much worse.

Not too amazing after a full summer of use and then 2 years of more-or-less sitting, old car DID need another shot of AC coolant. BUT it was simple and cheap to do. YMMV

 

[Car-Guy]

This thread reminded me to look in the shop for any Freon 12 that I may still have.... To my surprise I still have approximately 20 lbs of the stuff.... 3 or 4 smaller cans (that haven't leaked) and one larger tank that still has ~18 lbs. I don't need it anymore since I've sold off my older cars... Not really sure if it's worth trying to sell or not but maybe I'll talk to some folks at the next car show/swap meet since I don't want to deal with shipping.

 

[38Chevy454]

This thread reminded me to look in the shop for any Freon 12 that I may still have.... To my surprise I still have approximately 20 lbs of the stuff.... 3 or 4 smaller cans (that haven't leaked) and one larger tank that still has ~18 lbs. I don't need it anymore since I've sold off my older cars... Not really sure if it's worth trying to sell or not but maybe I'll talk to some folks at the next car show/swap meet since I don't want to deal with shipping.

You can definitely sell the R-12. Not sure current pricing, but the swap meet sales price should be $20 range for small cans, and around $15-20/lb for the large tank. Lot more cost for R-12 if you actually go to a shop and get filled with R-12, but we are talking here about selling to a DIY guy. Now technically the R-12 is supposed to have a license to buy it, but never seen any issues at swap meets. Note that it is to buy it, not sell it, although the law probably states both get in trouble

 

[Car-Guy]

^^^^^


I've lost track of the pricing too so I poked around on the Internet... Looks like you can "buy" a can (12oz) from $18 to $40 (I actually found some priced higher)...

Since I only have about 20 lbs I'm not sure it's worth the time and effort and it's not hurting anything where it's sitting now.. Someday I'll probably have a garage sale for my shop tools/equipment and sell it then. It's going to take me a while just to inventory and set prices for all that "stuff". That's probably something I'll advertise when there's a local car club/swap meet in the area. I know my family sure doesn't want to deal with it. Who knows, in 10 to 20 more years it may be worth a lot more.

 

[rmcelwee]

I'm curious about this, did an internet search, didn't find anything relevant.

I've never heard of a home fridge or freezer ever needing the coolant recharged (unless damaged - probably just replace?)). Many of them (especially the older styles w/o bells and whistles), are still running fine after 30 years or more.


Can anyone explain this?

-ERD50

You reminded me of a video I watched a few months ago:
Why Were The First Fridges Likely To Explode? | Hidden Killers | Absolute History
https://youtu.be/3Pqeb1diiR8?t=235

 

[Walt34]

I'm curious about this, did an internet search, didn't find anything relevant.

I've never heard of a home fridge or freezer ever needing the coolant recharged (unless damaged - probably just replace?)).

Yes, pretty much just replace it. When I was employed as a refrigeration tech (1971-early 1973) the only time we ever repaired a refrigerant leak in a freezer or refrigerator was when it was still under the (then) five-year sealed system warranty. The reason was that it was a four-hour job and involved finding and repairing the leak, then pumping down the system to a vacuum as much as the pump would do anyway, and then refilling with R-12. To pay for that out of warranty was more than half the price of a new appliance so I don't recall anyone ever paying for it - they just bought a new one.

To further document the continuing decline of civilization when shopping for a new dehumidifier recently I only found one - Frigidaire - was still offering the five year warranty on the sealed system. Everyone else was one year. There may of course be others with a five year warranty but I didn't see them.

If they knew how to economically make a dehumidifier with a five year warranty fifty years ago they'd certainly know how to now. They just don't want to.

 

[2177V]

I'm curious about this, did an internet search, didn't find anything relevant.

I've never heard of a home fridge or freezer ever needing the coolant recharged (unless damaged - probably just replace?)). Many of them (especially the older styles w/o bells and whistles), are still running fine after 30 years or more.

Cars do sometimes need a recharge. And it seems even more common with home A/C (just an observation, I assume this is true based on my experience - I've owned several cars for 12~16 years, and never had to recharge those. Had to recharge DD's, a mid 1980's model, and maybe some of my cars from the 70's. But I have had to recharge home A/C, two systems, and certainly know of others who had to as well).

As I understand it, the home fridge/freezer is completely sealed with lubricant in the coolant. I don't think there are any protrusions, like a shaft sticking out with a rotary seal - they are all internal, and just shut up tight with a non-moving gasket.

My home A/C appears the same (internal compressor motor?). I think car A/C has a drive shaft that needs a seal, so that would be a source of a leak (I wonder if they could use a magnetic coupling to avoid a rotary seal?)? But why do home A/C leaks as often as they seem to?

OK, the home fridge/freezer is in a better environment, might have something to do with it Though our 30+ YO freezer is in an unheated, but attached, garage - so it sees a wide range of temps, but a bit more muted than outdoors.

Can anyone explain this?

-ERD50

Exterior temperatures should not affect reliability but vibrations do. Your Automotive AC experiences a lot of vibrations which can cause the joints to loosen. Your home refrigerator experiences far less vibrations. Try shaking your TV, computer, or any home mechanical device and it simply will not last very long. Automotive AC compressors are mounted on the car’s engine which vibrate like heck and the dynamic seals can experience premature failure.