Whole house generator

Out of Steam said:
I think I'd install solar panels, batteries, and a liquid-cooled diesel or propane generator for backup, and tell PG&E to come and get their meter.
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I'd like to see that pencil out.
 
I admire people's knowledge base on this stuff. We have managed to get by without generators though. We could easily afford this stuff but I'd rather keep life simple and where we live it is doable, I think (fingers crossed).

We are in California so mild winters and if the power were to go out for a longer period I would use our wood burning stove.

We have had severe fires around this area. Had to evacuate a few times but our local area was not burnt. Throwing out the food is not fun but the cost does not compare to buying a generator or whole house wired in generator. For short outages during summer I freeze several gallon jugs which keep things cool in the fridge for hours. We reduce fridge inventories for summer. In the absence of Covid, we go out to eat at a restaurant not affected by power outages. DW likes that. Last summer we were evacuated and drove to Monterey which did not have much smoke (near the sea). Got takeout because of Covid and survived by taking beach walks. It actually was a nice little vacation.

We have a few nice LED lanterns. I charge the iPads and iPhones via the car battery. We can download books and read on the iPads. No solution for TV viewing but when the power comes back you really enjoy the "luxury".

Taking showers is not too bad as the water in summer does not loose heat too rapidly. In a pinch we could just use wet wash cloths. Charging my shaver is the only thing that would be hard but PGE usually gives us warning of a power outage and I charge it fully (lasts for 7 days or more). Besides all those Hollywood guys are going around unshaven so I fit in.

We don't really have a solution for super hot weather but the power outages have not been too long during those times. Our house does not get too hot. And we could always go to a hotel if things got really bad. Usually the evacuations are local and places say 50 to 100 miles out are not full.

So that is one alternative to becoming your own energy company.

DW wants to bite PGE (picture Corgi biting executive) but those higher up guys that are there now may not have been part of the problem. PGE is working hard on solving some issues and it shows in their communications and even in the reduction of outages. The problem is a societal one I think and involves politics, poor business decisions, uninformed people, climate change, economics, etc.

Things will get better ... I hope. :)
 
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skipro33 said:
I live in California with PG$E power. They schedule power outages based on 'public safety'. After years of neglect to maintaining the right-of-way clearances with trees, they shut off massive areas of power based on a formula of humidity, temperature and wind. They won't turn it back on until they've visually inspected every inch of overhead lines by sight. While the conditions may only be for hours, the outage usually will last 4 days to inspect the lines before re-energizing.
In the past two years, I've had 8 of these 4 day minimum outages. I expect we'll have at least that many going forward into the next several years.
On top of this, they also shut off power when the demand is high. Instead of paying the cost for running extra generation or buying it from other sources, they just roll a black out. Those are usually shorter, but still at critical times; when the need is most, they shut you off. High temps usually when AC units are running and people come home from work to start dinner, do laundry, kids do homework, etc. These happen around 10 to 12 times a year. According to the hour meter on my generator, I average 500 hours of power outage over each year, the past 2 years.
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I most likely would own one if I had that many too.
 
Lsbcal said:
But I don't like the issues of running the generator safely, the long outages do not happen all that often, and if you have to evacuate from your house the generator is not an option.
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unplug fridge from wall. Plug into generator via extension cord.
There is nothing more to it, other than not bringing the generator into your house or garage when you run it.
If you have to evacuate that is another issue.
 
skyking1 said:
unplug fridge from wall. Plug into generator via extension cord.
There is nothing more to it, other than not bringing the generator into your house or garage when you run it.
If you have to evacuate that is another issue.
Click to expand...

Nice small generators in that link you showed above. Questions:

1) It said run time was 12 hours and am guessing that means on one fill up of gasoline. Sound right?

2) If the power outage lasts more then 4 hours and does not lead to home evacuation, then a generator would be good to have. What about power outages that go past bedtime? Do you just stay up? Neighbors might be annoyed?
 
skyking1 said:
unplug fridge from wall. Plug into generator via extension cord.
There is nothing more to it, other than not bringing the generator into your house or garage when you run it.
If you have to evacuate that is another issue.
Click to expand...

In fairness, with a portable generator, you have to:

(1) at least twice a year, pull it out of storage and start it up and apply a load to it, to keep the parts in working order
(2) change the oil periodically, at least every year or two
(3) as part of (1), you either have to run it until it runs out of gas, and/or use a fuel stabilizer so the carb doesn't gum up
(4) stockpile gasoline and periodically (every couple of months), use up this gas and get fresh gasoline
(5) every couple of years, you'll also need to replace the spark plug

Granted it's not a lot of work, but it's something else to add to the pile of "maintenance" work.

A side benefit of (1) is that you can time it to when it will most annoy the neighbors!
 
Lsbcal said:
2) If the power outage lasts more then 4 hours and does not lead to home evacuation, then a generator would be good to have. What about power outages that go past bedtime? Do you just stay up? Neighbors might be annoyed?
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They don't have to run non-stop. Turn it off before bedtime and turn it on again in the morning. Your freezer will be fine and your fridge will be fine.
 
Besides which, the generator I linked is really quiet. When I go camping I can put my Honda behind a tree in a little low spot, and 50 ft of extension cord is enough to make it almost silent inside the RV.
I have monitored temperatures, and freezers are good for an entire day before they start to approach 25f
Refrigerators need a shot of juice maybe an hour every 6 hours. That's with the doors closed never opening them. Pushing it beyond that you're going to have spoilage.
 
Out of Steam said:
I think I'd install solar panels, batteries, and a liquid-cooled diesel or propane generator for backup, and tell PG&E to come and get their meter.
Click to expand...

I have solar. CPUC WAS funding TESLA Powercell II batteries (2) at 100%, but I cancelled due to too many restrictions from PGE and PGE changes the rate structure so I end up owing them more at true-up time. I have a propane generator hooked up to the house 500 gallon propane tank.
Because I have solar and no batteries, I use PGE as my storage for the electricity I over produce, in order to use it when I underproduce. (The term is annual-true-up and I bank power at the prevailing rate based on time of day and day of week, then use it the same. So I bank it during peak hours when sun shines and rates are high, then use it at off peak evenings and winter when rates are low.) Batteries don't quite work that way. I have to use their rate as if I had an electric car with cheap rates only during what I consider my sleep hours and PGE uses my battery bank during peak times, replacing at off peak times up to the equivalent of 52 days a year, reducing my battery cycle life.
Also, I can not use a generator with solar batteries, batteries won't run my AC and if my AC happens to be on when an outage hits, trips the batteries and won't reset unless I'm home to perform that task. So, unlike a whole house auto generator, which can handle all my home loads, I'm too much restricted by batteries.
The best solution for us is the auto switch generator with the large propane source. I UPS protect the sensitive stuff, TV, computers, router, etc.
 
Winemaker said:
Since we purchased our 16kw Generac six years ago, we have lost our power maybe a total of 96 hours, not continuous, however. We have done a lot of travel over those years and feel we are buying "power insurance". We have 2 freezers and 3 refrigerators that keep our food stash cold, but 2 are used to store, stabilize wine in various stages of aging. We also have about 1200 bottles of wine in the wine cellar, as well as ~300 gallons of wine aging in barrels. I try to keep the temp down there between 55-60 degrees, and if we were to lose power during a significant heat wave, serious damage could occur. After fermentation is complete, none of my wines feel 61 degrees until consumed.

The other reason to get the generator was 80yo DMIL. While she is no longer with us, several years ago, she lost power in her city for over two weeks after a tornado went through. We brought her here to our home, but she was in grave danger with no electricity, no running water and temps in the 90's.

We feel it was money well spent. 3 other neighbors have purchased the same model but I don't know if it was concern to them as it was for us, or whether they were trying to "keep up with the Winemakers".
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I need to pay for to install an interlock (cheapest, most flexible option) on the panel at my in-laws house...they've got multiple portable generators & a wood stove in the basement sufficient to heat the home.

Plus they still have a well, & at only a few miles away they'd be the place we'd go if our home ever lost (city) water...that hasn't happened in the 20+ years we've lived here, but looking at what just happened in Texas...
 
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Our generator could be in action soon. We're having an ice storm and friends a few miles away are without power.

Their Facebook exchange was priceless.

Friend: "Our electricity is out"
reply: " Why - because of the storm?"
Friend: " No - because my husband didn't buy a generator"
 
stephenson said:
As a quick follow-up, we’re now further south and directly on the Gulf of Mexico path for hurricanes.

Quite a few generators in higher end neighborhoods. However, I’m investigating options for solar with battery instead of generators ... the safety factor for linemen following loss of power during the restoration process has held up a lot of this type conversions, and the power companies are a bit resistant, as well. Basic rationale is that we can sell power back to the power company during normal ops, then have a bridge with solar after hurricane passage.

There are some technical solutions, though - so, gonna hold off on generator for awhile. Maybe buy the grid connected system now, with growth to battery backup in the future - batteries also expensive now since they are competing with cars!
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My utility won't let us charge batteries at lower off peak times and then sell back at higher peak times. What they WILL do is take my solar charged battery power during peak times to mitigate using a higher cost emergency generator, then recharge my batteries after midnight when it's cheap for them. They do not pay me a dime for taking my battery power, just promise to recharge within 24 hours..... They do put a hold on that if NOAA has a weather alert. Then they will leave my batteries at full charge until the weather alert is rescinded.

To that I said no thanks! I have to agree to allow them access to my battery power at least 52 days, 24 hour days, a year. To which they will recharge them during off peak times. This will reduce the life of the batteries because they only have so many charge/discharge cycles in them.
 
Ronstar said:
Our generator could be in action soon. We're having an ice storm and friends a few miles away are without power.

Their Facebook exchange was priceless.

Friend: "Our electricity is out"
reply: " Why - because of the storm?"
Friend: " No - because my husband didn't buy a generator"
Click to expand...

Why didn't she buy one? :LOL:
 
Ronstar said:
Good one - I'll ask her. But her husband is a retired electrician at a nuclear power plant - she probably figures that it is his responsibility.
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The husband probably said "I am retired! I am done dealing with this stuff."
 
street said:
If I may ask to that have "whole House Generators" how many real time hours have they been used in the last 5 years or so?

Just curious how much you folks are out of power and length of outages?
Click to expand...


Let's see... 6 1/2 hours yesterday...


A few 2 to 5 hours every once in awhile...


10 days on Ike...


Four siblings out 3 days on this ice storm... I got lucky...





One of the problems is that when it goes out you really do not know how long it will be... so you do not open the fridge etc... and the power company is sometimes bad at estimating when it comes on... the one yesterday they at first said 2 hours... then 4... then I got a notice it would be an additional hour and less than 5 mins later it was one...
 
stephenson said:
As a quick follow-up, we’re now further south and directly on the Gulf of Mexico path for hurricanes.

Quite a few generators in higher end neighborhoods. However, I’m investigating options for solar with battery instead of generators ... the safety factor for linemen following loss of power during the restoration process has held up a lot of this type conversions, and the power companies are a bit resistant, as well. Basic rationale is that we can sell power back to the power company during normal ops, then have a bridge with solar after hurricane passage.

There are some technical solutions, though - so, gonna hold off on generator for awhile. Maybe buy the grid connected system now, with growth to battery backup in the future - batteries also expensive now since they are competing with cars!
Click to expand...


Just an FYI, I did see a generator specifically designed for solar and battery.... it produces DC current to charge up the batteries in case the sun is weak for long periods...
 
skipro33 said:
In the past two years, I've had 8 of these 4 day minimum outages. I expect we'll have at least that many going forward into the next several years.
On top of this, they also shut off power when the demand is high. Instead of paying the cost for running extra generation or buying it from other sources, they just roll a black out. Those are usually shorter, but still at critical times; when the need is most, they shut you off. High temps usually when AC units are running and people come home from work to start dinner, do laundry, kids do homework, etc. These happen around 10 to 12 times a year. According to the hour meter on my generator, I average 500 hours of power outage over each year, the past 2 years.
Click to expand...

Wow. I thought our grid was unstable. We'll have 3 or 4 quick outages per day during a wind event (anything over about 30 mph.) But we've only had one significant power outage, Island wide (18 hours) since 2007. I had heard that Cali had power issues, but didn't realize it was this ridiculous. I think I've heard (correctly or incorrectly) that Cali has high cost power. You'd think they'd use a bit of that money to upgrade and maintain. Cali is a beautiful state and it's too bad such issues still exist in the 1st world. YMMV
 
The power issues are very uneven across California. Most issues I think are in the heavily forested areas. Not a problem in San Diego for instance.

It is a big state with a huge diversity of environments.
 
The short, quick outages do not bother me, ones that last seconds to a few hours. It is the ones > 12 hrs that concern me. We are on a well and septic with a macerator lift pump for sewage. Power goes out and we can't use the water or toilets for more than a couple of flushes. I can deal with that for a few hours or overnight. It is the long term outages that happen every few years that I am protecting against with the portable generator. One time, after working out in the yard on a 90 degree day, I came in for a shower. That is when the power went out, for 3 days straight! Not a good "feeling" if you can understand. If that happened during the winter months we would need to heat the house to protect the pipes from freezing. Last year, the power went out. We just hunkered down. On the 2nd day the electric company was estimating 4 more days of outage. That is when we drove 30 miles to get the nearest generator.
 
Glad I kept calling... got a verbal bid that is about $1,000 to $1500 cheaper and it is one of the top rated companies on the website..


They said they did not raise their prices due to the high demand caused by the storm...


Will get a firm offer and go with them.
 
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