without electricity for 48 hours now

[REWahoo]

Amazon.com: Yamaha EF2000iS 2,000 Watt 79cc OHV 4-Stroke Gas Powered Portable Inverter Generator (CARB Compliant): Patio, Lawn & Garden

...Pretty quiet too.

+1

Those Yamaha and Honda inverter generators are top-of-the-line when it comes to noise levels.

 

[farmerEd]

One of the problems with buying a generator is lack of use... if you run gas through them, it gums it up if it sits....
.

Very true, and I was worried about that but now both wife and I have established a new routine of vacuumming out our cars once a month, I drag out the generator instead of an extension cord. We get cleaner cars and the generator keeps in running condition. I was very worried about spending all that money and not having it work when I needed it....

 

[Moemg]

I also have a generator . We bought it after a very stormy summer .So far it has not been used but I make sure my SO has everything ready at the start of hurricane season . To everybody without power I hope you soon return to normal . It's a beast not to have power especially during extreme temperatures .

 

[meekie]

Anybody know what temperature would kill a cat?

Cats have a higher body temp, so they should be ok. Give them plenty of water though.

So I've been trying to partially drain the tank each day and add fresh water.

Not sure if you have chlorine in your water or are using de-chlorine drops, but you can also get a lot of oxygen into the water by just moving it around. Dip a cup into the water, and then pour it back in, making sure to get some splashing.

 

[ERD50]

Not sure if you have chlorine in your water or are using de-chlorine drops, but you can also get a lot of oxygen into the water by just moving it around. Dip a cup into the water, and then pour it back in, making sure to get some splashing.

Hah, another unexpected area where my beer-brewing experience comes to play:

If you fill a container ~ 3/4 full of water, then shake it vigorously for ~ 45 seconds, it will reach the saturation point of oxygen with normal air (~8ppm). It would take pure oxygen injection to get it higher.

I guarantee that will get much higher O2 levels into the water than just pouring.

-ERD50

 

[Cessna5354]

Another method to avoid fuel gumming the carb due to inactivity, is to use aviation fuel. AvGas does not leave any residue, however @ $5.98/gal this is not cheap. I use fuel which has been drained from tank sumps in the genset, after pouring thru a fine screen.

 

[samclem]

Another method to avoid fuel gumming the carb due to inactivity, is to use aviation fuel. AvGas does not leave any residue, however @ $5.98/gal this is not cheap. I use fuel which has been drained from tank sumps in the genset, after pouring thru a fine screen.

That'll work, but we should note (for anyone planning to use it) the commonly available aviation fuel for piston engines (called "100LL") contains lead. It's not a significant health hazard, but one should wash up well if it contacts the skin (like other fuels). It also might foul your sparkplugs a bit, so have some spares handy.

 

[Nords]

Here's what a 20KW generator looks like. A Perkins generator.

Those photos remind me of the emotional response I have to the rock-crushing diesel generators on submarines. I love 'em. They're a horrendously costly PITA to maintain, you have to exercise them regularly, and if you don't keep the operators proficient then you're going to flood out the machinery room through the diesel exhaust.

But when the nuclear reactor has scrammed and you're not sure why, or (even worse) you know exactly why it scrammed but you can't fix it until you put the fire out, and the battery amp-hours are ticking away on the electric panel like a Las Vegas slot machine jackpot... then you feel the rumble of a 10-cylinder 800KW diesel starting up while you're scrambling around a 100-degree engine room trying to coordinate the repairs... it's a pretty good emotion.

For some reason my clearest memory of those diesel generators is a machinist's mate who was a 19-year-old south Texas native in 1990, a good ol' boy even at that age (the word "redneck" would just be redundant), screaming "Yeeee-haw!!" at the top of his lungs with a huge grin on his face as he rolled the diesel to start it and it growled to life. We could hear him 100 feet away in the aft end of the engine room even over the diesel. For some reason those guys think the reactor gets too much attention and they don't get enough diesel run hours.

But that was a long time ago and electricity's not so critical at home. Having said that, the picture below would be our home's emergency generator if we needed one. All we have to do is buy a 1700-watt inverter from Inter-Island Solar Supply for a few hundred bucks. We already have the jumper cables.

But I keep thinking back to the four-days-&-three-nights "vacations" that we've spent hiking Haleakala Crater. 40-pound packs, altitudes above 7000 feet, 1930s CCC cabins with woodstoves and no electricity, boiling our drinking water... and we paid NPS for the privilege! I think we could do just fine in this house with no electricity for a week or two.

Admittedly we're not dealing with the heat/humidity that a lot of you are enduring right now (and I hope we never have to) and we'd have the bathtubs full of water before the hurricane arrived...

 

[NW-Bound]

Yes, the Prius is a wonderful self-propelled/self-charging/self-managed battery that one can simply hook an inverter to. I did think about getting a Prius to have that backup function and to tinker with. But one of my existing cars must die first.

Up in my 2nd home, there is no need for cooling in the summer, only heating for the winter. And we all know there is nothing that beats a big tank of propane for home heating. Add to that electric power from a Prius. Problem solved.

 

[aaronc879]

We just had a strong thunderstorm come thru. The lights flickered several times and went out once for about 5 seconds but it looks like that'll be the worst of it this time around. I think if my power went out for more than 1 full day then i'd pack up the car and go to the nearest 24-hr Walmart that still has power and camp out.

 

[ERD50]

Yes, the Prius is a wonderful self-propelled/self-charging/self-managed battery that one can simply hook an inverter to. I did think about getting a Prius to have that backup function and to tinker with. But one of my existing cars must die first.

I think was discussed a while back, but you can hook up an inverter to any car. If you want high watts, you need good, heavy cables and solid connections, regardless of the car model.

IIRC, the only advantage to the Prius is that it could be set to auto-start as the battery runs down. I think people said that many after-market auto-starts do the same thing.

-ERD50

 

[NW-Bound]

For low power levels (<2KW), there are many ways one can go. A lot cheaper than a Prius.

I thought I read about some guys tapping into the high-voltage propulsion battery bank of the Prius, not just its 12V battery. That gives more power, and more capacity for a longer shutdown duration between the engine runs. And I figure a Prius would be a lot quieter when it runs than a generator of a much smaller size. And it also serves as a vehicle when you need to get around.

Hmm... Am I describing a wheeled self-propelled power source that also serves as a vehicle when needed? Guess my nerdy nature gets the functions all backward.

 

[ERD50]

For low power levels (<2KW), there are many ways one can go. A lot cheaper than a Prius.

I thought I read about some guys tapping into the high-voltage propulsion battery bank of the Prius, not just its 12V battery. That gives more power, and more capacity for a longer shutdown duration between the engine runs. And I figure a Prius would be a lot quieter when it runs than a generator of a much smaller size. And it also serves as a vehicle when you need to get around.

Maybe some are tapping the HV battery, 12V connections was all I recall seeing....

ahh, some googling shows that the HV battery does keep the 12V battery charged, so I guess you'd get longer cycles between starting the engine. But for the occasional, rare emergency, any vehicle should function for this - a 'regular' car might need a bit more attention.


-ERD50

 

[plex]

The storm Friday night around the DC area was bad. I was only out for 5 minutes, but some people I work with have had no power for three days, and they only live 4-5 miles from work. Lots of people lost $100's in food.

 

[Lakewood90712]

One of the problems with buying a generator is lack of use... if you run gas through them, it gums it up if it sits.....

Got a yamaha generator about 10 years ago from us carburation , ordered the tri-fuel option. runs on propane, natural gas , or even gasoline. Only had it on gasoline once to test. On camping trips and when in a rare 100+ for 3 day weather a transformer blew, running on Propane. Nothing to gum up or clog. Have it set up to run on a natural gas BBQ outlet now too. Biggest problem is 12 ga. extention cords running to neighbors houses are quite$

Was quite popular with neighbors that hot day .

P.S. , always ground your generator !

 

[meierlde]

One of the problems with buying a generator is lack of use... if you run gas through them, it gums it up if it sits....

Also, I would probably leave and go visit someplace that HAS electricity... it is what we did the last hurricaine when we were out for 7 days... (we left after 1 1/2 days)....

If I had to be concerned with a sump pump or other critical needs, then I would have one for that.... but, you still have the problem if you are not there.... we went camping a couple of months ago and the electricity was out about 12 hours.... nobody to pull out a portable one to plug in the refrig...

Having a riding lawn mower that sat for a year and a half due to the drought, stabil added to the fuel avoids the gumming problem even if all the fuel evaporates. Its about 2 oz per gallon. Put a new battery in the lawn mower and it started in about 40 seconds.

 

[youbet]

You can connect that to your car battery (you need heavy cables and rock-solid connections) and start up the car to recharge. And/or add a heavy duty battery which could also be recharged by connecting to the car. The separate battery will keep you from running down the car battery (but these do shut down when the battery gets down to ~ 10.2V) and provide some power with no car around.


-ERD50

+1

Just got back from a couple weeks of dry camping in the Rockies using our Aliner hard-sided pop-up. Not wanting to drop big bux for a generator or solar system, I just recharge the Aliner battery from the tow vehicle system (using jumper cables to get a fast, high current charge not limited by the small guage wiring in the hitch hookup) and all went well.

We don't run any high consumption appliances when dry camping. Roof vent fan when it's hot and furnace blower motor when it's cold would be the worse offenders. The LED lights, radio, CO detector, etc. are negligible. I'm sure that helps.

Your idea of using a high wattage inverter hooked to your car's electrical system for short term sump pump backup and refrigeration is excellent. Beyond keeping the basement dry and the beer cold, there isn't much else worth worrying about during a power outage lasting no more than a few days.

 

[samclem]

A Note: The startup loads on some of these items are 2-3 times the running loads. A refrigerator that uses 600 watts when running can often need 2000 watts to start. An inverter or generator has to be sized to meet that startup load (together with anything else plugged into it when the startup load occurs). Also, a car alternator is not designed to put out its maximum rated power for hours on end, so we should accept we'll be reducing its life somewhat if we load it down. Other than that, using a big inverter for emergency power can be practical. An inverter big enough to start and run a fridge is going to cost about $150, a generator big enough to do that job is about $200. The inverter has low/zero maintenance needed to keep it ready for use, which I think is the biggest plus.
If your car's alternator is rated at about 60 amps=approx 720 watts= approx 1 HP. That's all the power it will produce at a steady state, so anything above that, regardless of the size of the inverter, is coming from the car's battery and will be very temporary. Larger alternators are available, but that's more money.

 

[RunningBum]

Got a yamaha generator about 10 years ago from us carburation , ordered the tri-fuel option. runs on propane, natural gas , or even gasoline. Only had it on gasoline once to test. On camping trips and when in a rare 100+ for 3 day weather a transformer blew, running on Propane. Nothing to gum up or clog. Have it set up to run on a natural gas BBQ outlet now too. Biggest problem is 12 ga. extention cords running to neighbors houses are quite$

Was quite popular with neighbors that hot day .

P.S. , always ground your generator !

My neighbor has a whole (most) house generator, which is hooked up to their propane tank. It kicks on every Wednesday morning. I'm sure they didn't set that up on their own so the installer must've recommended it and set it up. I don't know if it's unnecessary or if you need to start propane fed generators regularly as well. It's not that loud but it's kind of annoying. I guess it's nice to actually have power when others don't, but I can't see spending thousands of dollars plus the regular fuel costs to save some food. In 11 years here, this 15 hour outage was the longest I can remember. Our power lines are buried so that helps a lot.

 

[VaCollector]

Feeling for you Khan! Is your power back on yet??

 

[youbet]

Those are good points samclem. No doubt, someone who isn't fairly familar with the typical duty cycle of their refrigerator compressor or who can't understand that having the sump pump and refrigerator both trying to simultaneously start from one 1500 watt inverter isn't going to work should look for another solution. A whole house, automatic generator (for 6 - 10 kilobucks), professionally installed, might be more appropriate. And that will go into service automatically even if you're not home, a big plus.

In my case, I can't afford that. And I haven't needed an alternative power source in over 35 years of living in this house, although we've had a small handful of power outages lasting a few hours. It's hard for me to justify big bux for a whole house unit.

The alternator concept is minimal cost and would easily power the sump running intermittently. If the weather is dry, then the fridge gets to run.

I do wonder about the quality and reliability of those $200 2kw generators. There has to be some reason that Honda and Yamaha get five times that for theirs.

Edit: Since it's July, my mind was off the furnace. We have natural gas heat but I'll have to check the specs on the blower motor. The furnace could be just as critical as the sump pump if the power outage continues for a long time.

 

[rescueme]

I don't know if it's unnecessary or if you need to start propane fed generators regularly as well.

The Generac system I initially looked at was set to to perform an auto-test every month, not only to check out power generation, but also to ensure the transfer switch worked properly.

You are correct about the noise. We have a few in our neighborhood (various brands), and while they are not really that loud, when your power goes out and the neighborhood becomes "quiet", you are much more aware of the sound that they make.

 

[Walt34]

I do wonder about the quality and reliability of those $200 2kw generators. There has to be some reason that Honda and Yamaha get five times that for theirs.

Based on the reviews I read of the cheap ones I agree.

I drained the entire fuel system on mine, including the carburetor bowl, so I don't have to periodically fuss with it. And I keep it in the basement so I didn't want fuel in it anyway.

 

[NW-Bound]

+1 on storing the generator dry. No periodic maintenance.

Based on the reviews I read of the cheap ones I agree.

I drained the entire fuel system on mine, including the carburetor bowl, so I don't have to periodically fuss with it. And I keep it in the basement so I didn't want fuel in it anyway.

About the Prius, I found a guy's account of how he tapped into the main traction battery bank. He bought an industrial inverter that worked directly off the HV battery.

In a test where he put a 1,000W load on the inverter, he found that the Prius would turn itself on for 2.5 min, then off for 9 min. I was surprised that the battery could not sustain the 1KW load for longer than 9 min. Upon further research into the HV battery capacity, I thought that to be reasonable. And with a smaller load like a 500W fridge, the off time should be twice as long. On for 2.5min, then off for 18 min is quite acceptable, and of course a person inside the house would not even know the car is running.

Neglecting the higher cost and complexity, the Prius solution using its HV battery is better than having to idle a normal car for hours on end to keep a residential fridge going via the 12V+inverter setup. Or does one run the fridge (and car) on a duty cycle of something like 8 hrs on/16 hrs off?

In an emergency, I already have a 4KW generator built into my motorhome to tap into. But the drone of the thing over a long period like 48 or 72 hrs would be bothersome. And it seems a waste to run a large generator just to keep the fridge going.

A small and quiet generator (with inverter technology) like the Honda or Yamaha seems the simplest, but the price may be high for someone has no other uses than the need for power backup once every 10 years. The advantage of a 2KW ($1000) unit is that it can also run a small window A/C, if one has the A/C installed in a small bedroom to serve as the survival bunker.

And then, considering how often a normal person needs this, I do not think that a cheap "disposable" generator would be that bad a solution.

 

[ERD50]

A Note: The startup loads on some of these items are 2-3 times the running loads. A refrigerator that uses 600 watts when running can often need 2000 watts to start. ... Also, a car alternator is not designed to put out its maximum rated power for hours on end, so we should accept we'll be reducing its life somewhat if we load it down.

... The inverter has low/zero maintenance needed to keep it ready for use, which I think is the biggest plus.

Yes, the low/ zero maintenance of the inverter is what drew me to it, also automatic/unattended operation for my sump pump (with a battery and charger).

Regarding those start-up loads, one thing that is easy to overlook is just how solid those connections on the battery side need to be to handle that surge current. Even though my freezer is just something like 200W, I had trouble getting it started with my 2500/5000W (cont/peak) inverter. As you draw that surge if the voltage at the inverter drops to 10.2V it shuts down, and then the voltage rises and it kicks in, and keeps cycling on/off like that. So you need really solid connections, nothing shaky at all.

I had planned on (and should do it now that we have a new vehicle) to hard-wire some welding cable connectors under the hood of our car, connected really solid to the battery cables. Then it would just be a plug/unplug operation - even DW could do it.

I do wonder about the quality and reliability of those $200 2kw generators. There has to be some reason that Honda and Yamaha get five times that for theirs.

Edit: Since it's July, my mind was off the furnace. We have natural gas heat but I'll have to check the specs on the blower motor. The furnace could be just as critical as the sump pump if the power outage continues for a long time.

I'll dig up some numbers I have and report back later, offhand a furnace fan ~ 500W.

I'll also run some numbers on the alternator issues that samclem brought up. I think I'd be OK, since I'm only looking at running a couple things at a time.

I also can give some experience with cheap generators, but later.

Neglecting the higher cost and complexity, the Prius solution using its HV battery is better than having to idle a normal car for hours on end to keep a residential fridge going via the 12V+inverter setup. Or does one run the fridge (and car) on a duty cycle of something like 8 hrs on/16 hrs off?

When I dig up my numbers and have some time, I should be able to shed some light on this.

-ERD50