Your Retirement Robbed Jesus. You Shall Be Cursed!

[Co2012]

This not a religious thread and not intended to debate tithing. It’s too exhausting and controversial.

Anyway, a friend said she was looking to buy life insurance for herself because she wanted to provide for her son. She asked me who I was with and I told her I did not have life insurance and we were fine without it..

She just went completely off on me. She said the only reason I was able to retire well is because I have never tithed. She said that I have robbed Jesus and that I would be cursed. I said, “Say what? Excuse me?” She went on and on and said some hurtful things. We have been friends for over 25 years and I thought she loved me and wished me well. I finally just quietly hung up.

No, I don’t tithe but I give to charities and help many people, and especially her and family. She has acted differently towards me lately. It seems everything I say to her rubs her the wrong way. In all the years I’ve known her, she has never spoken to me with such disrespect and almost hate. I’ve been letting this slide as she has been having a really hard time with family death and unbelievable sickness in her family and cries at the drop of a hat and I don't want to upset her.


I have not given her any money in over six months regardless of anything in an attempt to send her a message. If she insists on taking care of her grown son who is perfectly capable of working and her grandkids who have parents, don’t look to me to help support them. She would be fine in her retirement if she would use it to only take care of herself. By what she says, I get the impression that her family is feeling the same and she is just beside herself.

I hate to lose a good friend. She sounds and says she’s sorry on her voice mails. The way I’m feeling right now, I’m thinking I should sever this friendship but I don’t want to be hasty. I know myself; once a person has shown me who they are, I believe them. I walk away and never look back. Yet, I know this would leave a void in my life. What would you do? Right now I’m feeling hurt and angry because I know I've done so much for her. I don’t expect her to bend down and kiss my foot but I think I deserve better.

 

[lhamo]

I'd at least give her the chance to honestly tell her what she is going through/what she is thinking. it sounds like she is under a lot of stress and doesn't know how to cope with it, so she's lashing out in strange ways. Saying you robbed Jesus is just bizarre, but it sounds is basically code for "I'm jealous of your life, and I need to believe you got where you are by cheating somehow. I've played by the rules and my life sucks and what I really want to say is I hate God for being so unfair but instead I'm going to lash out at you because that is easier than really saying what I feel."

I think a long friendship is worth trying to save, but if she continues with this pattern it will not be healthy for either of you so maybe best to walk away. But I would try to give her the chance to explain/apologize -- with a focus on being compassionate to her, and because maybe it will help her work through some of this stuff, not because you deserve an apology. This isn't about who is right.

 

[pb4uski]

Sounds to me like you need a time out from her. I would discontinue contact for a period of time and then reconnect.

It sounds like she is troubled, has some self-doubt and regret and is just taking it out on whoever is nearby. Give her a little space for a while. You are not her keeper.

 

[Ready]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't follow how a conversation about your decision not to have life insurance led to a complaint about your lack of tithing.

Isn't tithing just a form of charitable donation, no different than any other type of donation you may wish to make? And whether you donate money while you are living, or leave it to charitable causes after you're gone, doesn't seem to make much difference to me.

If you have reached financial independence, are able to retire earlier than others, and you are not a burden to others or to society, I would think Jesus would think that's pretty good! So I don't know why she feels it appropriate to judge you.

But, as others have said, it probably has nothing to do with tithing, and she is probably dealing with some difficult issues. This isn't about you. Whether you want to invest the time into helping is your call.

 

[Meadbh]

ISTM that this is jealousy expressed as religious fanaticism by someone who does not wish to take responsibility for her own financial wellbeing. Is this really the type of friend you want to cultivate?

 

[Co2012]

I'd at least give her the chance to honestly tell her what she is going through/what she is thinking. it sounds like she is under a lot of stress and doesn't know how to cope with it, so she's lashing out in strange ways. Saying you robbed Jesus is just bizarre, but it sounds is basically code for "I'm jealous of your life, and I need to believe you got where you are by cheating somehow. I've played by the rules and my life sucks and what I really want to say is I hate God for being so unfair but instead I'm going to lash out at you because that is easier than really saying what I feel."

I think a long friendship is worth trying to save, but if she continues with this pattern it will not be healthy for either of you so maybe best to walk away. But I would try to give her the chance to explain/apologize -- with a focus on being compassionate to her, and because maybe it will help her work through some of this stuff, not because you deserve an apology. This isn't about who is right.

I know without a doubt she is under a lot of stress which is why I have put up with so much shocking rudeness within the past few months. She has explained and apologized on each occasion and then turn around and do something else hurtful.

Her family and friends do not hesitate to tell her what is what and she calls me crying about what they did and said to her, wanting me to make her feel better. I always try to appease her. I think that's the problem. I think it makes her feel that she has some type of power to be able to tell someone off and not get it back in return. I understand, I do. But I do have feelings. And it makes me feel funny her thinking she can talk to me any kind of way.

 

[Co2012]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't follow how a conversation about your decision not to have life insurance led to a complaint about your lack of tithing.

Isn't tithing just a form of charitable donation, no different than any other type of donation you may wish to make? And whether you donate money while you are living, or leave it to charitable causes after you're gone, doesn't seem to make much difference to me.

If you have reached financial independence, are able to retire earlier than others, and you are not a burden to others or to society, I would think Jesus would think that's pretty good! So I don't know why she feels it appropriate to judge you.

But, as others have said, it probably has nothing to do with tithing, and she is probably dealing with some difficult issues. This isn't about you. Whether you want to invest the time into helping is your call.

I could not understand either how we got from insurance to tithing. But I think her point was that if I had tithed, I would not have been in shape to not need insurance. I don't know. I'm just guessing.

I think it really is about the tithing in some way. She seemed so bitter and angry.

 

[Meadbh]

I know without a doubt she is under a lot of stress which is why I have put up with so much shocking rudeness within the past few months. She has explained and apologized on each occasion and then turn around and do something else hurtful.

Her family and friends do not hesitate to tell her what is what and she calls me crying about what they did and said to her, wanting me to make her feel better. I always try to appease her. I think that's the problem. I think it makes her feel that she has some type of power to be able to tell someone off and not get it back in return. I understand, I do. But I do have feelings. And it makes me feel funny her thinking she can talk to me any kind of way.

Co2012,

You have now posted two threads with the same theme, which is conflict resolution. In one case it relates to your fears about your husband's desire to buy a boat, in the other, to a "friend" 's disrespectful behaviour towards you. Of course, in both cases we are hearing only your side of the story.

It might be worth reading this book

http://www.amazon.ca/Getting-Yes-Negotiate-Agreement-Without/dp/0743526937

Another resource you might find helpful is

http://www.amazon.ca/Crucial-Conversations-Tools-Talking-Stakes/dp/0972446222

Good luck!

 

[MichaelB]

This not a religious thread and not intended to debate tithing. It’s too exhausting and controversial.

If you don't want religious discussion in the thread then why include it in the thread title?

 

[Huston55]

I normally don't post to this kind of thread but, I have to admit that the title intrigued me. Here's some advice based on personal experience; it's worth what you're paying for it.

Look at your own behavior. Why is it that you've continued to support your friend financially? What are you trying to get from the relationship?

My non-professional opinion is that this relationship seems a bit co-dependent.

 

[HawkeyeNFO]

I have put up with so much shocking rudeness.....

Never a reason to"put up" with that, doesn't matter who it's from.

 

[JoeWras]

No, I don’t tithe but I give to charities and help many people, and especially her and family. She has acted differently towards me lately. It seems everything I say to her rubs her the wrong way. In all the years I’ve known her, she has never spoken to me with such disrespect and almost hate. I’ve been letting this slide as she has been having a really hard time with family death and unbelievable sickness in her family and cries at the drop of a hat and I don't want to upset her.

Wow, a lot going on here.

First, when I see what I have bolded above, I start thinking about mental illness. Depression (most common) and more uncommon early onset dementia can be expressed this way. This is really, really difficult though, because you don't know. The easy advice is to say just cut her out of your life, but perhaps if she is ill, then you are only making it worse for your friend. In any case, I would stop giving her money. Maybe keep the compassion (as hard as that is to do), but cut the money.

Second: I'm dealing with my only severe family illness issues right now and it has made me crazy. It happens.

Third: if she has bitterness towards tithing, she is doing it wrong. But that's a religious discussion.

 

[W2R]

Sounds to me like you need a time out from her. I would discontinue contact for a period of time and then reconnect.

It sounds like she is troubled, has some self-doubt and regret and is just taking it out on whoever is nearby. Give her a little space for a while. You are not her keeper.

+1, only I would not bother to reconnect. Let her make the effort herself. She sounds like a waste of your time and energy, not a friend. Life is too short to agonize over this.

 

[Texas Proud]

A lot of different things going on here.... I will just throw in my opinion on some..

Co2012, I think you are an enabler here.... you say you have been giving her money and she spends it in a way you do not approve... that is your right, but how is this helping her

You say her family tells her what is what, and then she calls you up for someone to take her side and make her feel better... why They might have a valid point and you making her feel better is telling her that you think she is right...


Why is she having all this stress That seems to be the real issue and it is what should be addressed. If it is her grown kids and her grand kids taking all her money... well, she can stop that right away....

I would not put up with someone being so rude on a continuous basis... you have said it has been happening a lot over the last 6 months.... you can forgive a few, but this has turned into a pattern.... I would kindly say 'For some reason you have changed over the last ?? months. I do not like the 'new' you. If you decide to change back to the old you that I have known for ?? years, please give me a call. For now, I think we should take some time apart to reflect on our lives'....

Wait 6 months or so and then reach out to see how she is doing....

 

[HFWR]

This is a tough situation; sorry you're having to deal, but it seems to be the rule rather than the exception these days. Facebook is the worst... So many people spouting political or religious nonsense, I mean opinions. It's almost as if they're trying to pick a fight.

I would try to talk it out, if possible, since you used to value this friendship, but at some point it's best to cut your losses...

 

[Calico]

I normally don't post to this kind of thread but, I have to admit that the title intrigued me. Here's some advice based on personal experience; it's worth what you're paying for it.

Look at your own behavior. Why is it that you've continued to support your friend financially? What are you trying to get from the relationship?

My non-professional opinion is that this relationship seems a bit co-dependent.

+5

 

[Tortoise]

This is a tough situation; sorry you're having to deal, but it seems to be the rule rather than the exception these days. Facebook is the worst... So many people spouting political or religious nonsense, I mean opinions. It's almost as if they're trying to pick a fight.

I would try to talk it out, if possible, since you used to value this friendship, but at some point it's best to cut your losses...

I just block my Facebook "friends" that have the need to spout a bunch of nonsense.

As to the OPs problem,

I know without a doubt she is under a lot of stress which is why I have put up with so much shocking rudeness within the past few months. She has explained and apologized on each occasion and then turn around and do something else hurtful.

I am with many others who have advised to back away from this "friendship" for a while. You certainly don't want to enable this person who repeatedly cycles through manic-depressive episodes.

 

[braumeister]

She said the only reason I was able to retire well is because I have never tithed. She said that I have robbed Jesus and that I would be cursed.

Translation:
The only reason she is not able to retire well is because she always tithed. Jesus has robbed her and she will be up the creek.

OK, but seriously ...

Sounds to me like you need a time out from her.

+1

 

[14thMed]

Co2012,

You have now posted two threads with the same theme, which is conflict resolution. In one case it relates to your fears about your husband's desire to buy a boat, in the other, to a "friend" 's disrespectful behaviour towards you. Of course, in both cases we are hearing only your side of the story.

It might be worth reading this book

http://www.amazon.ca/Getting-Yes-Negotiate-Agreement-Without/dp/0743526937

Another resource you might find helpful is

http://www.amazon.ca/Crucial-Conversations-Tools-Talking-Stakes/dp/0972446222

Good luck!

I'm thinking I see why Hubby wants a bigger boat.

 

[Animorph]

Translation:
The only reason she is not able to retire well is because she always tithed. Jesus has robbed her and she will be up the creek.

OK, but seriously ...

+1

Seems to me she's under financial stress, as well as other stresses, and is lashing out a bit now. While it sounds like she could use a good friend, she is not handling it very well. I'd distance yourself a bit in hopes for a recovery, give her a little slack, and let her approach you later if she still wants to be a friend.

 

[Newventurer]

Maybe ask yourself in what ways you benefit from your relationship with this person.

Is the drama (excitement) worth it to you?

 

[Sue J]

I am not a Christian, but a knowledgeable person explained tithing to me as being 10% of your income, given to your church. It's done off the top, before you do any other giving, saving or spending.

So from the OPs friend's point of view it may look like the non-tither is way ahead on saving/investing/retiring because she didn't follow the lifetime requirement of automatically giving her first 10% to her church. If the friend feels that this was unfair, well that's her problem for choosing to be the category of Christian that requires this.

While it's nice to be supportive of a friend going through tough times, a comment like this would cause me to question my tolerance of toxic people in my world.

 

[Mulligan]

Ok, I may be a cynic, but I wonder how much of the rant was directed at you over tithing, or more a cover to yell at you about the fact you quit giving her monetary handouts six months ago.

 

[MooreBonds]

Ok, I may be a cynic, but I wonder how much of the rant was directed at you over tithing, or more a cover to yell at you about the fact you quit giving her monetary handouts six months ago.

No, you're simply a level-headed realist who can see a situation for what it is.

She never had any ill words to say to the OP about retiring early....as long as the "robbing-Jesus-to-pay-Paul" gravy train was flowing money to her. As the kaka has hit the fan over the past 6 months, the "friend" is desperate to get at least some money from somewhere, and her expected funds have probably not materialized like she expected - prompting her to more extreme and severe verbal attempts to manipulate the OP into tapping the cash flow spigot again.

Oh, she'll be back, that's for sure. With a much more calm 'apology' to the OP. She knows she was able to get money from her before, and she'll just try different avenues and different approaches to tug at her heartstrings.

 

[Co2012]

I walked this morning with my husband and related to him what was going on. He did advise me to leave her alone and that he had been telling me that. He told when she calls (and she will and has) to tell her if she can't speak to me with any kind of human courtesy to just not call back. I think I'm going to do that. I may be a wimp about some things but I'm good at taking advice.

One of the reasons that I am putting up with her is that within the past year I have lost two long time friends who I talked to everyday. One was a cousin who recently and suddenly died and the other someone I worked with. Although I have many friends, she is the only friend I have left who I talk to everyday. I'd often complained about them calling me all the time but when they were gone I realized how much I miss those calls.

I am an enabler, always have been. My family have talked to me about this repeatedly but always in an insulting way; like I'm just lying down and letting people walk over me. Although it might seem like it, I'm not a complete fool. What I do I choose to do and I don't give what I can't afford and I don't do it just because someone asks. But I admit, in this case I think I've made a mistake and in the process of trying to fix it, I have created a monster.