Anyone own Gold/Sliver Bullion Bars?

[mathjak107]

i have to agree, that i think it lagged up until recently

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Then now must be the time to buy, while the irons hot, eh?

 

[JohnDoe]

You don't have to pay any taxes if you sell your metals for a gain, correct?

 

[Martha]

Sorry, the tax is pretty high, at the collectibles' rate of a maximum 28% rather than the 15% capital gains rates maximum, for assets held more than a year. If less than a year it is taxed at ordinary income rates.

 

[ash]

Check the after tax numbers.

Taxes on gold appreciation!?

One of the benefits of actually holding gold itself is the privacy if offers! One has the choice to pay taxes on it or not.

 

[mathjak107]

if you sell thru any reputible place like bank or brokerage its reported when you trade it in. if you dont and take it somewhere priviate good luck as you will be offered way way below spot for sure. either way it will cost you dearly

 

[ash]

if you sell thru any reputible place like bank or brokerage its reported when you trade it in. if you dont and take it somewhere priviate good luck as you will be offered way way below spot for sure. either way it will cost you dearly

There are several reputable coin dealers where I live and none of them report anything below $10K annually in transactions. Margin from spot price from all of them has been excellent in my experience.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Hmm, I guess I could sell my equities and not report those on my schedule D. That'd be as effective and just as legal.

But then again we were talking about the "permanent portfolio" allocation scheme and presumably the fund that follows such a scheme, and also presumably legally reporting our taxes so we dont get a free early retirement courtesy of the feds.

Rebalancing such a construction and taking occasional withdrawals for living expenses produces a lot of (legally) taxable events.

 

[mathjak107]

i had bought years ago from fidelity and benham capital. fidelity though was a mistake as i took delivery and had to pay sales tax. i didnt feel like shlepping to fidelity to sell them so i sold them thru deak international.....

what a 2nd mistake that was. i got way lower than spot and for the record they did report it

 

[ash]

Hmm, I guess I could sell my equities and not report those on my schedule D. That'd be as effective and just as legal.

Except isn't there a paper trail there? And possibly reporting to the IRS (I really don't know)?

There are other benefits to privacy, besides income tax issues.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Well congratulations. This is the first time I think anyone on the forum has ever espoused the potential for tax evasion as a benefit of an asset class...

 

[ash]

Well congratulations. This is the first time I think anyone on the forum has ever espoused the potential for tax evasion as a benefit of an asset class...

Actually, I did no such thing. I merely said that privacy offered the investor choices.

For example. "What if" the government suddenly decided to confiscate gold again? Privacy gives you choices. "What if" the government decided to increase the capital gains rate to 90%? Privacy gives you choices.

Yes, those are highly unlikely scenarios. BUT, privacy gives you flexibility and freedom if those were ever to happen.

You can keep things private and still pay every cent the government says you owe in taxes.

 

[youbet]

Actually, I did no such thing.

Yes you did!

But, no big deal.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Its okay Youbet, I'm ready to be tagged back in...

Actually, I did no such thing.

I'm a little confused then. You claimed that gold isnt tax inefficient because you can private sale it without the sale being recorded, yet you arent saying that?

What the heck ARE you saying?

Or did you miss Marthas post that when legally reported as a sale, that you'd pay about twice as much in taxes on gains in gold than pretty much any other asset class?

I guess I'll hang on to my good performing, tax efficient, non-private asset classes...

 

[ash]

Sorry if I've been confusing. I certainly don't want to advocate that anyone break the law, because there are consequences for doing so, especially for tax evasion.

With that said, IF someone is going to invest in gold, why not purchase gold privately and anonymously, without any paper trail? What you choose to do with the gold in the future is a bridge that can be crossed then, but owning it privately breaks no laws and gives you future flexibility.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Aside from being illiquid, inconvenient, limited to local market pricing and the potential for loss or theft, I guess it'd be a great idea.

 

[ash]

Aside from being illiquid, inconvenient, limited to local market pricing and the potential for loss or theft, I guess it'd be a great idea.

Whether one should invest in gold is another question, and a good one, about which you raise good points.

I was only offering an opinion that if one is going to invest in gold, why not do so anonymously and privately.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

My comments had to do with buying, holding and selling physical gold, not anything having to do with whether to invest in it or not.

 

[ash]

My comments had to do with buying, holding and selling physical gold, not anything having to do with whether to invest in it or not.

Oh, I see, I misunderstood. Okay, my thoughts:

"illiquid, inconvenient" - While gold is highly liquid in one sense, true, you can't trade actual gold privately from your computer in your PJs.

"limited to local market pricing" - Perhaps. But If you're reasonably close to a major metropolitan center, I'd wager that there's enough competition to get a fair price.

"the potential for loss or theft" - Anything can be stolen. What's more safe, having gold locked away in a safety deposit box, or being the registered owner of some gold that someone else is holding for you? I don't know the answer to that question, but it's a valid question.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Or, as in the case of my FIL as mentioned above (who lives in the heart of Gold Country), he cant sell it to anyone at all at any reasonable price. The dealers dont wish to buy any more.

Thats pretty darn illiquid and inconvenient.

Also tells me that people who are in the business are expecting a price drop.

 

[ash]

Or, as in the case of my FIL as mentioned above (who lives in the heart of Gold Country), he cant sell it to anyone at all at any reasonable price.

Well, how could you expect to sell gold in gold country!? You can't swing a dead cat there without hitting a fifty pound nugget of gold.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Yep, you can actually pan for the stuff after a heavy rain and with a good days work might come up with a fleck or two. We had a huge mudslide after some early and heavy rains a couple of years back and the local stores were selling out of the pans and kits. A lot of guys came up with some nice chunks.

Point was, there must be a couple of dozen coin and metal shops downtown from my FIL's house. It sure isnt NYC or LA, but these guys do a serious business just in tourist transactions. Its a pretty good volume business and theres plenty of competition. He'd like to sell the coins right now because he feels the price is good and he could use the cash to do some work on his RV. But he cant.

 

[ash]

Point was, there must be a couple of dozen coin and metal shops downtown from my FIL's house. It sure isnt NYC or LA, but these guys do a serious business just in tourist transactions. Its a pretty good volume business and theres plenty of competition. He'd like to sell the coins right now because he feels the price is good and he could use the cash to do some work on his RV. But he cant.

That's surprising. When you say he can't sell it, you mean they're offering too low of a price? Kitco is buying at $819 right now, which is within a few bucks of the spot price.

When you say downtown, are you talking about Sac? Have you tried Marconi Coin in Carmichael, that's not too far from gold country (30-45 minutes?).

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Yep, around that area. Sac to Grass Valley.

He went into some local shops and called a bunch more. They flat out told him they have all the gold they want to have in inventory at this time, and dont expect to buy anymore any time soon. I'm sure if he was willing to drop his pants they might take it.

 

[cashflo2u2]

I have a friend who owns his own printing business. One of the applications generates silver as a by product. He reclaims it somehow and has these large heavy silver bars in his office. They have been accumulating and kicking around his office for years and now they are worth quite a bit of money. He wants to keep them though, in case of emergency. Deep down I think he has bunker type survivalist mentality at heart.