Cars - A Basic Calculation

[JOhn Galt]

Hello bow-tie. I expect no one will be surprised that I just love to negotiate and dicker. I do it whenever I can
on practically everything. I hate those car dealers who
say the posted price is their only price. I enjoy matching wits with the seller. It's entertainment for me.

I may have told this story. I was buying a used Cadillac
and the negotiations were long and intense. When we got done the salesman said, "The next time I buy a car
I'm taking you with me!"

JG

 

[sgeeeee]

. . . When we got done the salesman said, "The next time I buy a car
I'm taking you with me!"    

JG

Hi John,

While I'm sure you are an intense and effective negotiator, I think they say that to everyone.

 

[bow-tie]

...While I'm sure you are an intense and effective negotiator, I think they say that to everyone.  

Negotiation for that stuff gives me some type of sadistic pleasure. Drives my bride crazy when she has to listen to it. Oh well... I love to buy cars... it's parting with the $$ that kills me. So I guess I love to "shop" for cars.

 

[mark]

My wife and I left after several hours of 'negotiations' on a new car. In the end, I think we both preferred keeping our money in our pocket over the new car smell.

 

[farmerEd]

My wife and I left after several hours of 'negotiations' on a new car. In the end, I think we both preferred keeping our money in our pocket over the new car smell.

I absolutely hate the car dealer dance...and refuse to do it anymore...last new car we bought (which probably will be the LAST new car we buy) I let my wife negotiate the whole deal over the internet...she figured out what she wanted, used one of the sites to sent quote requests to multiple dealers etc...got down to a real good price at a dealer, she went in to drive it and confirmed she wanted it...I just showed up one day and wrote the check...in and out in about 10 minutes. The guy says to me "don't you even want to see it?" what for, its not for me I said...and left. Thats how long I want to be in a new car dealership.

I haven't bought a completely new car for myself in the last 3 I bought...prefer the slightly used trucks myself.

 

[Bob_Smith]

...negotiate the whole deal over the internet...

This is how I buy new cars. I have three brothers in the car business. They tell me that most dealers prefer not to mess with folks who negotiate via email. They'd rather lose the sale than deal with people they view as a pain. So, when I email, I always promise the salesman:

--that I won't be a pain (I tell him I have brothers in the business)
--that I won't waste his time
--that I won't submit the offer to any other dealer for a week, to give him time to decide
--that if he accepts my offer, I won't go to another dealer in an effort to grind him down a few more dollars
--that I'll tell friends and family about him if we make a deal (and I do)
--that I will give him the highest rating on the manufacturer's satisfaction survey... these really matter to these guys
--that I will wait to make the deal until it is most advantageous for the salesman in terms of contests or quota's or whatever. I once waited until the end of the following month.

I check with one of my brothers to get very close to the dealer's actual cost (many of the incentives are hidden), and I add on around $300-$400 depending on the car. I bought my last three cars that way.

 

[Cut-Throat]

Bob,

I also buy cars with e-mail. I give them an Excel spreadsheet with the Dealer Invoice Prices of the Car and options that I want. I have them fill in the profit and e-mail it back to me.

No waiting around in the Showroom any more

 

[bow-tie]

This is how I buy new cars. I have three brothers in the car business. They tell me that most dealers prefer not to mess with folks who negotiate via email...

Hey Bob.

I may be missing something, but why doesn't one of your brothers hook you up with the car you are looking for?

 

[Bob_Smith]

Hey Bob.

I may be missing something, but why doesn't one of your brothers hook you up with the car you are looking for?

They never have what I want. If they had been selling new Hondas, Toyotas, or Nissans, I would have bought directly from them. Actually, they agree with me, even though they sell competing makes.

 

[mark]

When I was in high school (circa 1978) a neighbor up the street had a dark purple Alfa Romeo in his garage. It looked nice. What he actually drove was a circa 1958 Chevy Biscayne, chalky white with rust. It always ran, the Alfa didn't.

 

[bow-tie]

They never have what I want. If they had been selling new Hondas, Toyotas, or Nissans, I would have bought directly from them. Actually, they agree with me, even though they sell competing makes.

Ahh, I gotcha. Guess that makes sense. I doubt I'll drive anything other than GM.

 

[BigMoneyJim]

I just recently found out I get special discounts on new cars from several manufacturers--everybody but Honda and Toyota at first glance. (Added: BMW and VW seem absent, too, unless they're part of another conglomerate.) My employer has a rather large and diverse fleet of vehicles and my discounts are typically part of "partner", "vendor" or "supplier" programs depending on the car company.

Anybody have any experience with these types of discounts? Would they result in better prices than some of the ruthless buying tactics mentioned here so far, or would it be about the same pricing floor?

 

[JWV]

I check with one of my brothers to get very close to the dealer's actual cost (many of the incentives are hidden), and I add on around $300-$400 depending on the car. I bought my last three cars that way.

I'm car shopping now and have a couple of questions: Is this technique only appropriate to new cars and when do you test drive the vehicle?

I hate buying cars.
Judy

 

[renferme]

I may have done a dumb thing. Always wanted a BMW Z3, since first seeing James Bond driving one.
So, I bought a '97 Z3, 4 cyl, manual, 58k, last November.
Haven't driven it much because the weather here in Pittsburgh is lousy in the winter. Kept my other car, a 2000 Camry. But, it seems to be in mint condition. It sure is beautiful.
If it turns out to be costing me too much, you know, like repairs, insurance, etc. , I'll sell it.

 

[Nords]

Hey, Bennevis, I grew up in Murrysville. Don't miss Pittsburgh driving one little bit... if the weather doesn't get your Z3 then the potholes will.

Can you still fish THROUGH the Sixth Street bridge? Does KDKA still run the "Rhinestone Pothole" contest?

 

[renferme]

Nords

Nords,
My Z3 will not see bad weather.
Yes, I suppose you could fish thru the 6th Street Bridge, which, by the way, was renamed the Clemente Bridge.
I'm not familiar with the Rhinestone Pothole contest, although we still have plenty of potholes around here.
I live near the airport, so most of my driving is on the Parkway (our version of an interstate).
Where are you now ?
.
OH, I see you're in Hawaii ! I'm jealous.

 

[Hyperborea]

I may have done a dumb thing.  Always wanted a BMW Z3, since first seeing James Bond driving one.
So, I bought a '97 Z3, 4 cyl, manual, 58k, last November.
Haven't driven it much because the weather here in Pittsburgh is lousy in the winter.   Kept my other car, a 2000 Camry.   But, it seems to be in mint condition.   It sure is beautiful.
If it turns out to be costing me too much, you know, like repairs, insurance, etc. , I'll sell it.

So, how do you like it so far?  I'm probably going to have to get a second car in another year or so (my wife and I currently share one) and I've thought about getting a second hand Z3 (with the inline 6) or perhaps the M Coupe (the coupe version with the 300 HP engine).  Any comments on the quality, the handling, the maintenance, the dealerships, etc.?

I keep vacillating between a nice little sports car and a nice little economy car.

Thanks

 

[Nords]

Re:  "Like a Rhinestone Cowboy, er, Pothole"

I'm not familiar with the Rhinestone Pothole contest, although we still have plenty of potholes around here.

Back in the 1970s, when Jack Bogut was KDKA's morning DJ, he used to have listeners call in with their worst pothole experience. Other listeners would vote for the stories that aired. The best of the worst stories ("It took me half a tank of gas to get out of the pothole by my house...") would get a cold patch of asphalt mixed with rhinestones.

The city DOT hated Bogut's contest but could never seem to do anything about it. Apparently patching potholes for free isn't illegal, and they weren't about to start a public debate.

The 1977-78 winter was so vicious that the shoveled snow was piled nine feet high by our driveway. The Ohio & Allegheny Rivers froze and the coal barges couldn't get through, so Duquesne Power & Light's "Fuel Deathwatch" got down to the single digits in days of coal remaining. We had so many snow days of school cancellations that graduation wasn't until well into June, and some kids actually had to return from Penn State's summer trimester to attend their high-school graduation.

I see nothing's changed, I still don't miss winter a bit, and my cars haven't needed a front-end alignment since I left Pittsburgh...

 

[unclemick]

Our current mayor (New Orleans) is a pothole filling fool compared to the past admin. Helped get him elected.

Below sea level on Mississippi mud means we will always have the problem - it was one of the TV channels that used to have the pothole of the week.

 

[Bob_Smith]

I'm car shopping now and have a couple of questions:  Is this technique only appropriate to new cars and when do you test drive the vehicle?

Judy, I might drop in and test drive a car before I make an offer (although not always), but I don't negotiate at the dealership. When I make the offer it's contingent on an inspection and a test drive. I doubt that this would apply to used cars, though. On a used car I'd want to drive it and have a mechanic inspect it before making an offer.

 

[renferme]

Hyperb:
If you're buying a second car and live in a good weather area, a Z3 is a nice car, fun to drive. Haven't had mine long enough to assess the repair costs. Mine is a 4cyl, manual, so I expect to get about 30mpg. So, I think it's the best of both worlds - a sports car and an economy car. But the 2.8 liter, 6cyl is a good engine. I would recommend a manual tranny, I hear that BMW makes an excellent manual tran. It's a 3rd car for us, so I won't be driving it in bad weather - like 99.99% of the winter here. Quality and handling are excellent, but like I said, don't know about maintenance yet.

Nords: do you ever get back to the 'burgh ? Don't forget to watch the Steeler game on Sunday. How about this: the temp at game time will be about 15 degrees, wind chill at 0 degrees. Right now it's snowing ; we'll get 4 to 6 inches today.

 

[Nords]

Nords:  do you ever get back to the 'burgh ?   Don't forget to watch the Steeler game on Sunday.    How about this:  the temp at game time will be about 15 degrees, wind chill at 0 degrees.    Right now it's snowing ;  we'll get 4 to 6 inches today.

Well, there you go. To me, Pittsburgh seemed to be a really good reason for joining the Navy instead of attending Carnegie-Mellon. My folks moved to Denver about the same time and there's no close family in the Tri-state area. I haven't been back since 1983, although I still swap e-mail with a few high-school classmates. Maybe I'll make it back for another high-school reunion someday. I'd have a hard time convincing spouse & kid to join me, though.

Except for Navy travel & family emergencies, last fall's DisneyWorld trip was my first trek east of Anaheim since 1992. And we were originally planning to go to Tokyo Disneyland...

I'm gonna record the Steelers game to show the kid the crowd shots. She still doesn't understand the concept of "winter"... but in about five weeks her school's Washington, DC trip will make it all too clear!

 

[John Galt]

Just dispensed with an auto related decision. We
have 2 vehicles (not counting the motorcycle), a 1997
pick up with 156,000 miles and a 1991 Jeep with 207,000 miles. The Jeep runs good but had been getting rusty. My sense of style can tolerate older cars
as long as they still look good. Anyway, I considered
various solutions and finally found a one-man body shop
to repair the rust. Cost me $770 on a vehicle which might only be worth $2,000. However, it looks great
and maybe we will get another couple of years.
Bottom line.............the $770 didn't look like much compared to what buying something newer would have cost. OTOH, eventually we'll have to do something.
Hopefully not for a while.
I think crossing this issue off my to-do list was the best part.

JG