How solvent is the military pension?

I think military pensions are solvent (in that there is no worry about them not being paid over the long-term.) That said, I think it's unrealistic to think the value of them won't be diminished over time. Even if COLAs are not reduced below the CPI in the future - and I'm sure they will be - the CPI probably won't keep up with your personal rate of inflation. Also, I'd be very surprised if commissary and exchange benefits are not curtailed in some manner going forward.

(An aside on commissaries and exchanges: my wife, who does most of the shopping, tells me that she can almost always find as good a deal on an exchange item by going to a big box store or watching for sales. The commissary is a somewhat better value, but even there with watching the weekly supermarket sales, she doesn't feel like she is missing anything by not having ready access to one.)

One question I would ask the OP (rhetorically) is this: if you are married, have you considered providing for your spouse if you should die shortly after retiring? Even if you take the full SBP, a spouses's income would be severely reduced in the event of your demise in retirement. That would argue for having a good nest-egg built up.

In my own case retired (O-6/28.5 years), we can cover everything we need and most of what we wantfrom my military pension. But we do not live extravagantly and never have. We did build up a nice nest egg of savings/investments during my military career and during my 6 year post-Navy "career," so I feel there is a nice cushion I personally wouldn't feel comfortable without. (At least I would want a good portion of it, not necessarily all of it.)
This also keeps me sleeping well that my wife will be reasonably well provided for if I predecease her (which the actuaries tell me I'm likely to.)

Just a few thoughts. Obviously you need to consider what's right for you.
 
80-90K a year is more than enough for a comfortable retirement.

You could pay all essential costs (mortgage, utilities, food, car, etc) on half that leaving a lot of money for play. :D

Pick the location you'd think you'd retire too, check costs and do up a sample budget. I think you'll find you'll be fine.

I agree it would be fine, but if OP is used to living off of $150K, it may not be. I inferred that he has no savings, thus his spending exceeds what he'll get from his pension by quite a bit. If that's not true, then yeah, not much of a risk.

Same boat for me. My spending exceeds my future pension, thus I need more.
 
I'm coming up on 20 years of active duty service. I am currently an 05 and am on track to make O6. My plan is to serve 30 and walk away and not work again. I would be 52 years old. To accomplish this goal I would need to rely mostly on this pension rather than my current investments.

Is this risky?


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The math behind government entitlements opens them all to some level of risk. Certain states and municipalities have almost achieved true zombie status. How the courts handle the inevitable legal battles is always open to discussion but the judges are also counting on their own government pensions. Detroit pensioners took a token hit and so far the California bankruptcies have preserved the pensions to the best of my knowledge. Taxpayers, bond holders and current employees seem to be getting the short end of the stick.

As for federal pensions, they do print the money but many budgeting nibbles have been done and will probably continue to be done in the future. You are likely to get much of what you think you were promised. Expect some erosion in how things are calculated and how much you might have to pay in taxes. It's risky to assume your COLA will always keep you whole. If this is all you have, expect to slowly but surely lower your expenses.
 
As for federal pensions, they do print the money but many budgeting nibbles have been done and will probably continue to be done in the future. You are likely to get much of what you think you were promised. Expect some erosion in how things are calculated and how much you might have to pay in taxes. It's risky to assume your COLA will always keep you whole. If this is all you have, expect to slowly but surely lower your expenses.

The retirement age might be adjusted too because of increasing lifespans and the general outrage at Federal and public employees being able to take pensions at 55 or even earlier. I say that as someone who can take a pension at 55 and just avoided new legislation that moves that back to 60.
 
I agree that the recent budget approved by Congress and subsequent repeal of the COLA modification gave me real pause.

I think the COLA is the key to why military retirement has been such a good deal.
Mine began in 1989, and my retired pay has increased by a cumulative 92.7% since then. The CPI inflation has increased by 92.06% in the same period, so I'm holding my own very nicely.

But I don't see this lasting forever.
 
I think the COLA is the key to why military retirement has been such a good deal.
Mine began in 1989, and my retired pay has increased by a cumulative 92.7% since then. The CPI inflation has increased by 92.06% in the same period, so I'm holding my own very nicely.

But I don't see this lasting forever.

I agree. Congress has dabbled with the civilian side and is working on more changes. Federal civil service retirement under the newer plan, (FERS), does not have COLA until the retiree hits age 62. Also, other earned income above about $16k will reduce your retirement income, (FERS Supplement), by a calculated amount. This discourages pursuing another career and limits personal freedom.

I can see these kinds of things happening to military retirement pay in the future, also. Congress will nibble at it a little at a time. But I think the changes will affect the new people coming in and others will be grandfathered. As of right now though, I think a military retirement is one of the best things going. You certainly can't beat the health insurance that goes with it either.

I know when I was active duty 30 some years ago, you could retire with 20 years at 50% of pay and a sliding scale above that. I know things have changed over the years since then. Kinda like civil service. What is the present minimum military retirement plan like? I know there is TSP, but any matching, etc? Still 50% with 20?
 
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What is the present minimum military retirement plan like? I know there is TSP, but any matching, etc? Still 50% with 20?

The current military retirement plan is the "high three." One can retire starting at 20 years at 50% of base pay calculated from the average of base pay from the last three years on active duty. This retirement system was introduced for those entering service after 1986 and results in about a 10% reduction in retired pay from the "older" generation that retired at 50% of final base pay starting at 20 years. Retired pay is increased by 2.5% (again, average of last three years on active duty) for each year on active duty past 20.

For example, I retired at 26 years. So, my retired pay is 65% of the average of my base pay from years 24-26 on active duty.
 
The current military retirement plan is the "high three." One can retire starting at 20 years at 50% of base pay calculated from the average of base pay from the last three years on active duty. This retirement system was introduced for those entering service after 1986 and results in about a 10% reduction in retired pay from the "older" generation that retired at 50% of final base pay starting at 20 years. Retired pay is increased by 2.5% (again, average of last three years on active duty) for each year on active duty past 20.

For example, I retired at 26 years. So, my retired pay is 65% of the average of my base pay from years 24-26 on active duty.

I thought the current retirement was high 3 COLA -1%?
 
Thank you to everyone that has replied. I appreciate the input and food for thought as I attempt to knock out the next 10 years.



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I thought the current retirement was high 3 COLA -1%?

The COLA -1% is only applied to the REDUX retirement, which is a 3rd retirement choice that service members can make. This is a horrible offer by the government that entices personnel to take a lump sum of $30K at 15 years of service for a reduced pension later. Some take it, but it's not a good deal.

From the OSD Military Compensation Website CSB/REDUX Retirement System

REDUX System Details
The REDUX multiplier calculation and annual cost of living adjustments differ from the other systems. Also, REDUX has a catch-up increase at age 62 that brings the REDUX retired pay back to the same amount paid under the High-3 System. REDUX is the only military retirement system with a readjustment feature.

Each of the first 20 years of service is worth 2.0% toward the retirement multiplier. But each year after the 20th is worth 3.5%. Hence, 2.0% x 20 years = 40%. But a 30-year career is computed by 2.0% times the first 20 years plus 3.5% for the 10 years beyond 20, resulting in the maximum of 75%. The table below summarizes the initial multiplier at various years of service under REDUX.

Years of service 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30
REDUX 40% 43.5% 47% 50.5% 54% 57.5% 61% 64.5% 68% 71.5% 75%
Under REDUX, the longer an individual stays on active duty the closer the multiplier is to what it would have been under High-3 up to the 30-year point where the multipliers are equal.

In precisely the same way as High-3, this multiplier is applied against the average basic pay for the highest 36 months of the individual's basic pay. This typically, though not always, equals the average basic pay for the final three years of service. Also, remember this is basic pay; allowances and special pays do not affect retired pay.

Cost of Living Adjustments (COLA) for retired pay are given annually based on the increase in the Consumer Price Index (CPI), a measure of inflation. Under REDUX, the COLA is equal to CPI minus 1%.
 
Cheez whiz, guys, lighten up a little. The military's here to defend your rights to say stuff like that, but this is not a political question. It's all about the money and the retention rates.

I'm coming up on 20 years of active duty service. I am currently an 05 and am on track to make O6. My plan is to serve 30 and walk away and not work again. I would be 52 years old. To accomplish this goal I would need to rely mostly on this pension rather than my current investments.
Is this risky?
I think you're taking a reasonable risk. Let me answer both questions.

No doubt Nords will be along with detais, but IIRC by law the military pension fund is required to be fully funded at all times. I qualify for a(n infinitessimal) Fed pension and I consider it equal to a treasury bond. IOW, if I don't get paid the $20 a week I am owed in 20 years, we will all be eating rats and collecting rainwater for drinking. At that point, my stash of whiskey, shotshells and rice & beans will ensure I am King of the Dump.
Like Brewer says, the DoD funds the pensions for the services with special-purpose intra-government Treasury bonds for the purpose. If those default then we'll already have too many other problems to notice.

For example, here's an old CBO report on military compensation:
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/11-14-12-MilitaryComp_0.pdf
A paragraph on p. 23 says
To fund the retirement system, DoD sets aside an amount equal to a predefined percentage of basic pay in accrual payments while service members are on active duty. Future costs are dictated by the structure of the benefits, the mix of people receiving them, and inflation in the economy that determines the annual cost-of-living
adjustment (COLA). For the future, costs could be managed by changing the vesting period, by changing the mix
of defined benefits and defined contributions, or by some other means.
DoD has seen your retirement coming and is getting ready for it.

These bonds have actually been perceived as a problem. The funds are accrued on very conservative assumptions in even more conservative investments. DoD could solve some significant cashflow problems if they'd adopt more realistic pension-accounting procedures and invest in some other assets. It would not be as bold as the old proposal to privatize Social Security, but it would stop essentially overfunding the pension plan or earn a higher return.

When SECDEF gripes to Congress about excessive personnel costs, this pension accounting system is one of the more significant portions of the cost.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. What I am concerned about is the government taking away or reducing the pension. Last year they tried to reduce cost of living increases by sneaking the cut in another bill. I'm guessing it's only a matter of time until they try something like this again.
They're going to try something like that every year, but the process moves very slowly and the military advocacy groups are very effective at lobbying for the status quo.

Last year's attempt not only sneaked by the advocacy groups (without debate) but it even sneaked by the Armed Services Committees of both Houses without debate. I can only imagine the "frank conversations" that went on in private offices. When the fait accompli was passed, you saw how the military groups campaigned to have it repealed for all those who've joined the military before 2014. This time they had a lot of support from Congress, too.

In 1986, Congress passed REDUX. It took 13 years to realize their mistake, and they repealed it. Yet in the last 30 years we've seen military pay indexed to the Employer Cost Index (although that's been suspended), Tricare Prime fielded, Tricare For Life established, CRDP, the new GI Bill, and a host of other additions to military pay & benefits. It's all a pendulum swing, and it'll swing both ways several times during the remainder of our lives. There will be changes to the pension system, but current servicemembers (and current retirees) will be grandfathered. I think your pension will continue to grow with national inflation, and it'll certainly grow faster than your personal rate of inflation. No need to focus on the negative.

You also have a TSP account, and I sincerely hope you've been maximizing the contributions. (If not, then here's your chance to catch up.) If you want to be even more financially secure then save additional amounts in your Roth IRA and your taxable accounts. However my O-4 pension covers over two-thirds of our non-discretionary spending, and most of that spending is fixed-rate mortgages. In 10 years my O-4 pension will probably cover 75%-80% of our non-discretionary spending.

Speaking of that plan to go for 30, I'd personally suggest taking it one tour at a time. The O-6 billets are scarce and the competition is [-]backstabbing[/-] fierce. If you're having fun then stay on active duty as long as you're enjoying yourself. But when you get treated to the harsh realities of O-6 assignments and political infighting, if you've been pushing yourself to financial independence then you don't have to stay to 30. You could leave at 20, 22, 26, or at the end of a tour. There's still plenty of bridge careers (if necessary) for O-5s with 20 years of service, and the closer you are to FI then the more choices you have.

I think what is a bigger threat is that of Tricare (not the TFL Medicare supplement). The Tricare Prime benefit has been under fire for a while now and the rates have gone up...of course the increases have been minimal in comparison with other health insurance (I hate that word insurance, I wish they would call is a health SERVICE plan since that is what it really is). Right now, I am going to live just fine on my pension, and this is in part because of the low cost of Tricare...you CANNOT beat $555 a year for coverage. Now, if this were to go up what the civilian side of the house is paying (the ACA website shows coverage for the DW and I for a Gold plan would be in the neighborhood of $16K a year) then my rear is going back to w*rk.
I agree that Tricare Prime is at risk, and I suspect that within the next decade the program will be scrapped for something resembling the ACA choices or even Tricare Standard. However I think the annual deductible will still be capped at $3000 (or even less for some ranks).

Another perpetual proposal is an annual fee for TFL. It has been voted down every year. The last figure I remember hearing was $200/year. My father currently pays $4500/year for his Medicare supplemental insurance.

I agree. Congress has dabbled with the civilian side and is working on more changes. Federal civil service retirement under the newer plan, (FERS), does not have COLA until the retiree hits age 62. Also, other earned income above about $16k will reduce your retirement income, (FERS Supplement), by a calculated amount. This discourages pursuing another career and limits personal freedom.

I can see these kinds of things happening to military retirement pay in the future, also. Congress will nibble at it a little at a time. But I think the changes will affect the new people coming in and others will be grandfathered. As of right now though, I think a military retirement is one of the best things going. You certainly can't beat the health insurance that goes with it either.

I know when I was active duty 30 some years ago, you could retire with 20 years at 50% of pay and a sliding scale above that. I know things have changed over the years since then. Kinda like civil service. What is the present minimum military retirement plan like? I know there is TSP, but any matching, etc? Still 50% with 20?
As far as I know, the "CPI-1%" offset for servicemembers who have joined in 2014 is still in effect. (The legislation has been repealed for everyone else.) We'll see how DoD and Congress feel about that in 5-10 years as servicemembers begin to vote with their feet.

TSP is not matched for the military. The law is on the books, and DoD has authorized the services to use it, but I haven't heard of that happening. The focus is still on bonus pay and re-enlistment bonuses (which can both be put in the TSP).

The current retirement plan is High Three (average of the highest 36 months of pay) at 50% of base pay for 20 years. It's a little less than the Final Pay system you remember, but it still works out to roughly 30%-35% of total active-duty compensation.

There's plenty of Congressional nibbling, but you get the military that you pay for. In 1999 retention (even during a drawdown) sucked so badly that REDUX was repealed. In 2005-2009, even with the Great Recession, the services were throwing out plenty of enlistment bonuses and retention incentives. We're going to see a lot of scary drawdown headlines through 2018, but peace is not breaking out all over.
 
(a whole bunch of good stuff)

Nords' post is so much more informative than the simplistic one I wrote and discarded. I will offer this: A military pension is one of my four primary retirement income sources, and that would be my point - its fortunes or setbacks would not deleteriously effect our retirement situation. So, +1 on the TSP advice; savings is yours to manage for good or ill, not subject to the mis-management of others...
 
... There will be changes to the pension system, but current servicemembers (and current retirees) will be grandfathered. I think your pension will continue to grow with national inflation, and it'll certainly grow faster than your personal rate of inflation..

Nords,

Has this really been the case with you? I find that my costs (property taxes, energy, groceries) rise more than the small (but still very welcomed!) annual increases to my pension.
 
Does anyone have any thoughts on how safe VA disability compensation is in the present environment?
 
Nords,
Super informative. Thank you.


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Nords,

Has this really been the case with you? I find that my costs (property taxes, energy, groceries) rise more than the small (but still very welcomed!) annual increases to my pension.

+1. Especially since I retired in 2010, the annual COLA has been pretty minimal - definitely not enough to cover my increased costs for the things you mention, and more. But hey, it's still better than no COLA.
 
definitely not enough to cover my increased costs for the things you mention, and more. But hey, it's still better than no COLA.

Definitely. When people accuse me of having an "inflation adjusted pension" I tell them it's not. They just throw in a little something to keep me in the game. But it's not "inflation adjusted". In fact, as far as the military retirees go, we just went 2 years in a row when we dot NO raise: 2008/2009/(maybe 2010?), altho post 2008 inflation was
really low.

And didn't they start giving active duty, fed civil service, and mil and civilian retirees different raises back when Reagan was pres?
 
If you take a look at my post #30, you can see that over the long run it works out well.
 
Does anyone have any thoughts on how safe VA disability compensation is in the present environment?
This is like asking what the stock market returns will be over the next 30 years. I do think that VA disability compensation are pretty safe but COLAs probably won't totally keep up with your true inflation rate.

My cynical bent makes me think all government pensions (military and otherwise) will be nickle and dimed with little "adjustments" but not enough to let people to believe the system has been totally gutted. That's been the history of them during my lifetime.

I don't think it wise to totally depend on one aspect of your retirement plan to determine success or failure. Nobody knows what our government will do to supposedly "untouchable" entitlements. Nobody knows the future of stock market returns, bond yields or inflation rate. That's why I think it smart to be diversified even if a large part of your income is from a government payment.
 
There is sentiment among some Congress members to return to the old system where tax exempt VA disability pay resulted in an offset of retired pay.

For many (most?) of us, there's nothing to go back to.
My military retired pay has always been offset by my VA disability pay.
The only benefit to me is that the disability pay is not taxable, so it just amounts to a few bucks a year.
 
I think we are all in a similar boat (civilians, former military, public sector employees, and private sector employees). As long as the US economy rolls along nobody should expect huge cuts (pensions, 401K/IRA changes, SS, Medicare, Tricare). A great depression much more significant than the past great recession and all bets are off. Nobody is going to be defending military pension rights if their SS gets cut 50%.
 
For many (most?) of us, there's nothing to go back to.
My military retired pay has always been offset by my VA disability pay.
The only benefit to me is that the disability pay is not taxable, so it just amounts to a few bucks a year.

Concurrent Retirement and Disability Pay (CRDP) allows military retirees to receive both military retired pay and Veterans Affairs (VA) compensation. This was prohibited until the CRDP program began on January 1, 2004. A retiree with 50% or greater rated disability now receives full retirement pay AND full tax free VA disability pay. There is no offset or decrease in retirement pay.

Concurrent Retirement Disability Pay
 
Nords,
Has this really been the case with you? I find that my costs (property taxes, energy, groceries) rise more than the small (but still very welcomed!) annual increases to my pension.
+1. Especially since I retired in 2010, the annual COLA has been pretty minimal - definitely not enough to cover my increased costs for the things you mention, and more. But hey, it's still better than no COLA.
I'm only 12 years into it, but the COLA has risen faster than our spending. By January my pension will have risen just under 30%, which implies a 12-year CPI of about 2.2%/year.

Part of that is our relentless optimization of our expenses. For example, we refinanced our home's mortgage down to 3.625% (fixed) and it still has another 26 years left. Our photovoltaic array has paid for itself, and our electric bill is down to $25/month (weather dependent) instead of over $200/month. Vacation/travel spending has gone up, but the daily average has dropped considerably. We're not sacrificing or cutting back or adjusting our hedonic treadmill-- we're just spending the money where we care the most.

Remember the threadswhere we reported our annual spending?
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/how-much-did-you-spend-in-2010-a-53971.html
The federal government skipped a couple of COLAs during those years, but my pension still went up faster than our overall spending... which included getting a teen out of the house.

It's not all rainbows-- surf wax used to be $1.29 a patty but lately I haven't found anything less than $1.50. However I'm not at the point of buying a 50-pound block of paraffin and making my own.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how safe VA disability compensation is in the present environment?
Google "#KeepYourPromise" and check the sentiment...

But seriously, the last thing the military (or the elected officials) can afford to do now is to cut back on VA disability compensation. The annual COLA for this payment still has to be authorized separately by Congress (instead of being part of the official CPI calculation) but the military advocacy groups are campaigning to have this included in the other federal automated COLA boosts.

Although it's a pendulum swing, over the decade the pendulum has been swinging in the favor of veterans-- look at CRSC and CRDP. Otherwise the VA can't even do the compensation process right, let alone figure out how to cut down the benefits payments. There's far more to be saved by fixing the VA than by taking money out of a veteran's pocket.

As I mentioned in another post, Tricare Prime is probably the most vulnerable of the military programs. Even the successor program (whatever it is) still be significantly cheaper than civilian health insurance.

I like the sound bite that's been going around the military blogs lately: "If you can't afford the costs, then don't go to war."

** Side note for the admins**
When I "Search entire post" for the phrase "How much did you spend" posted by me during "any date", it times out and generates a database error. When I run the search again and limit it to the title of the post, I get the thread I was looking for.

Either the database is too big, or it can't handle a poster with 26,000+ posts, or it can't search back 12+ years. I think this is more of a problem for the vBulletin coders or the website host's server parameters, not your database. But it would certainly be nice to have a search run longer before the server cuts it off.
 
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