How the top 5% do it?

[JDARNELL]

I'm average height, bald at age 16, and ugly. Yep, unlucky.

It drove me to study damn hard and choose a profession requiring a lot of education. I couldn't just skate through certain jobs that require nothing but good looks.

It was OK. While the pretty boys were out partying during the week in college, getting lucky, and smoking pot, I was studying. Didn't have a choice. Who would want to party with me, the ugly duckling?

So maybe I was lucky to be ugly because it drove me to work hard. Yep. That's it! I'll take it. I was lucky.

Money always trumps looks.

 

[CardsFan]

Here is an interesting article on the role of luck in success, or at least the influences of factors outside of our control: https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...life-success-is-far-greater-than-we-realized/

Along the lines already mentioned of being tall and good looking helping with success, here are a few others:

• About half of the differences in income across people worldwide is explained by their country of residence and by the income distribution within that country,
• Scientific impact is randomly distributed, with high productivity alone having a limited effect on the likelihood of high-impact work in a scientific career,
• The chance of becoming a CEO is influenced by your name or month of birth,
• The number of CEOs born in June and July is much smaller than the number of CEOs born in other months,
• Those with last names earlier in the alphabet are more likely to receive tenure at top departments,
• The display of middle initials increases positive evaluations of people's intellectual capacities and achievements,
• People with easy to pronounce names are judged more positively than those with difficult-to-pronounce names,
• Females with masculine sounding names are more successful in legal careers.

And, as been said here before:

Correlation is not causation.

 

[Senator]

Here is an interesting article on the role of luck in success, or at least the influences of factors outside of our control: https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...life-success-is-far-greater-than-we-realized/

Along the lines already mentioned of being tall and good looking helping with success, here are a few others:

• About half of the differences in income across people worldwide is explained by their country of residence and by the income distribution within that country,
• Scientific impact is randomly distributed, with high productivity alone having a limited effect on the likelihood of high-impact work in a scientific career,
• The chance of becoming a CEO is influenced by your name or month of birth,
• The number of CEOs born in June and July is much smaller than the number of CEOs born in other months,
• Those with last names earlier in the alphabet are more likely to receive tenure at top departments,
• The display of middle initials increases positive evaluations of people's intellectual capacities and achievements,
• People with easy to pronounce names are judged more positively than those with difficult-to-pronounce names,
• Females with masculine sounding names are more successful in legal careers.

Maybe a statistic on whether the AFC or NFC won during the year of the CEOs birth may help too.

One thing for sure, people that look at others and call it luck, are just making excuses for their own lack of success. They can say they were lucky themselves, but they should not say it for others.

Being successful is almost a cookie cutter approach. Do certain things, and you get ahead. Failure to do those tings make it much more difficult. Some people think it's degrading to play "Follow the leader", even if that is the way to the top. You may have to kiss the bosses or customers behind, but it works.

 

[24601NoMore]

If hard work and grit works in America - why can’t it work elsewhere just as effectively? I haven’t seen anyone blamed for earning success. I do see discount of those who were given/inherited it without working on their own.

It is even common congratulations to hear that ‘you put in a lot of hard work to get where you are’ - cool.

But there are some percent who advertise that they had no luck and that anyone could accomplish their success if they only worked hard / pulled harder on their boot straps.

I just can’t support this ideology because it is always used to denigrate others. These stories of hard work always have a part about ‘my school mates didn’t study/sign up for the army/take this chance’ or ‘my family was just lazy’

Not saying anyone else was 'lazy' or didn't work hard. In fact, I have NO IDEA what anyone else did (or didn't do).

That said, there's this cancer in America today that denigrates the "haves" vs the "have nots". It's pure politics and class warfare, pure and simple. Not that we ourselves have a 'lot', but what we DO have was earned through huge sacrifice, decades of hard work, and blood, sweat and tears.

We all have / had the same opportunity, being born in the greatest country in history. What we all CHOOSE to do with that opportunity is up to US, and "luck" has ZIP to do with the outcome.

 

[NW-Reader]

Yes, Gates and Jobs had the OPPORTUNITY to dig in, SACRIFICE and make massive effort to achieve what they did. So did every single other person on earth that was born at roughly the same time. Just the way it is.

I think Bill might disagree with you. His pal Warren Buffett has spoken about what he calls the "ovarian lottery" and I seem to remember Bill saying something similar, although I can't find a reference online. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/16/warren-buffett-says-being-a-white-man-helped-him-succeed.html

 

[NW-Bound]

I'm average height, bald at age 16, and ugly. Yep, unlucky.

It drove me to study damn hard and choose a profession requiring a lot of education. I couldn't just skate through certain jobs that require nothing but good looks.

It was OK. While the pretty boys were out partying during the week in college, getting lucky, and smoking pot, I was studying. Didn't have a choice. Who would want to party with me, the ugly duckling?

So maybe I was lucky to be ugly because it drove me to work hard. Yep. That's it! I'll take it. I was lucky.

Hey, I was never bald, and in fact still have a full head of hair. And my friends accuse me of dyeing my hair.

If I tried to climb the management ladder at megacorp, my head of hair would make no difference because I did not have the look nor the personality for it. I would not want it anyway. I knew early that I was born to be a nerd, and although I was on the technical ladder at megacorp, it looked like a low stepping stool compared to the management ladder.

It was OK. I made enough money, and left early at 40 because I was sick of the Dilbert-like environment. I would never suffer the politics to climb that management ladder. I did not envy those guys at all.

 

[dirtbiker]

Maybe a statistic on whether the AFC or NFC won during the year of the CEOs birth may help too.

One thing for sure, people that look at others and call it luck, are just making excuses for their own lack of success. They can say they were lucky themselves, but they should not say it for others.

Being successful is almost a cookie cutter approach. Do certain things, and you get ahead. Failure to do those tings make it much more difficult. Some people think it's degrading to play "Follow the leader", even if that is the way to the top. You may have to kiss the bosses or customers behind, but it works.

The bolded part may be the truest words spoken in this thread.

 

[NW-Bound]

Hey, I just saw this.

... Some people think it's degrading to play "Follow the leader", even if that is the way to the top. You may have to kiss the bosses or customers behind, but it works.

I did not kiss anyone's ass. I had to work harder as a result, but I was willing to pay that price.

I am proud to say that all of the 3 megacorps where I worked called me to see if I wanted to come back, and that was quite a few years after I left. They could not find someone to do the same work.

 

[RobbieB]

I had a boss like that once. I quit and got another job.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

And, as been said here before:

Correlation is not causation.

If you read the studies in the links, there are logical reasons for the instances with correlations.

 

[corn18]

Luck is the intersection of opportunity and preparation.

 

[NW-Bound]

If you read the studies in the links, there are logical reasons for the instances with correlations.

In the book I mentioned earlier, Gladwell talks about how the better Canadian hockey players tended to be the ones born in the early months of the year (e.g. Jan and Feb). It's because the players are grouped by their birth year, and selected when they are 8-year-old. At that age, a year difference in age between a boy born in January vs. another born in December is huge. The older and stronger boys are favored, get more practice, and they keep getting better.

Someone else later found that if a December boy was good enough to survive competition, at an older age he was likely to perform better than the older boy because his youth now became an advantage in adulthood, plus he was likely to be more skillful.

An earlier poster mentioned that CEOs tend to be men of better than average height.

Some of these effects are clearly observable and have a logical cause. But life is often unfair like this. You just have to find a way to compensate for your disadvantage.

I was more successful in school than my two younger brothers. I had higher grades, spent much less time in college than they did, and generally sailed through school. But later in life, I got bored at my megacorp and left at the age of 40 to pursue my own dreams, which crashed and burned (I was not as good or smart as I thought). My brothers stuck with their own megacorps, and toughed it out. We do not share net worth numbers, but they are doing well financially.

If you are not pretty, it is not easy to become a model. If you are not big and tall, do not try to be a sports player. Life is not fair. What else can you do, but to work with what you have? You will not be a billionaire, but you can be financially secure. One should not waste too much time to complain.

 

[JoeWras]

An earlier poster mentioned that CEOs tend to be men of better than average height.

And thick hair.

Then we get a nice exception in Steve Balmer, and he screws it up for all the rest of us. Thanks for nothing, Steve.

 

[JoeWras]

If you are not pretty, it is not easy to become a model. If you are not big and tall, do not try to be a sports player. Life is not fair.

Wait a second. I've read the posters at school and hear the teachers.

They all say: "You can do anything you want!"

OK, here I'm not joking or being sarcastic. I think that's a problem! No, you can't do anything you want. You have to use the God given gifts you have to the best of your ability. That lesson seems to be lost.

 

[Senator]

Someone else later found that if a December boy was good enough to survive competition, at an older age he was likely to perform better than the older boy because his youth now became an advantage in adulthood, plus he was likely to be more skillful.

Sort of like a boy named "Sue".

 

[pjigar]

Hey, I was never bald, and in fact still have a full head of hair. And my friends accuse me of dyeing my hair.

If I tried to climb the management ladder at megacorp, my head of hair would make no difference because I did not have the look nor the personality for it. I would not want it anyway. I knew early that I was born to be a nerd, and although I was on the technical ladder at megacorp, it looked like a low stepping stool compared to the management ladder.

It was OK. I made enough money, and left early at 40 because I was sick of the Dilbert-like environment. I would never suffer the politics to climb that management ladder. I did not envy those guys at all.

Same here, climbed the technical "step stool" to the top rung by the time I turned 35. In fact, stepped down a rung when I took the last job which gives me more time. But like you said, very good pay all along so I could care less about the management ladder. I wrote off management ladder in my early 30s knowing my own personality. I have always been a lone star and it would take a lot of work to change my behaviors.

 

[street]

In the book I mentioned earlier, Gladwell talks about how the better Canadian hockey players tended to be the ones born in the early months of the year (e.g. Jan and Feb). It's because the players are grouped by their birth year, and selected when they are 8-year-old. At that age, a year difference in age between a boy born in January vs. another born in December is huge. The older and stronger boys are favored, get more practice, and they keep getting better.

Someone else later found that if a December boy was good enough to survive competition, at an older age he was likely to perform better than the older boy because his youth now became an advantage in adulthood, plus he was likely to be more skillful.

An earlier poster mentioned that CEOs tend to be men of better than average height.

Some of these effects are clearly observable and have a logical cause. But life is often unfair like this. You just have to find a way to compensate for your disadvantage.

I was more successful in school than my two younger brothers. I had higher grades, spent much less time in college than they did, and generally sailed through school. But later in life, I got bored at my megacorp and left at the age of 40 to pursue my own dreams, which crashed and burned (I was not as good or smart as I thought). My brothers stuck with their own megacorps, and toughed it out. We do not share net worth numbers, but they are doing well financially.

If you are not pretty, it is not easy to become a model. If you are not big and tall, do not try to be a sports player. Life is not fair. What else can you do, but to work with what you have? You will not be a billionaire, but you can be financially secure. One should not waste too much time to complain.

Very well said.
I also had to work harder, then most to be financially successful, because of not having the things in life that made life easier for some.

 

[Luck_Club]

Not saying anyone else was 'lazy' or didn't work hard. In fact, I have NO IDEA what anyone else did (or didn't do).

That said, there's this cancer in America today that denigrates the "haves" vs the "have nots". It's pure politics and class warfare, pure and simple. Not that we ourselves have a 'lot', but what we DO have was earned through huge sacrifice, decades of hard work, and blood, sweat and tears.

We all have / had the same opportunity, being born in the greatest country in history. What we all CHOOSE to do with that opportunity is up to US, and "luck" has ZIP to do with the outcome.

I agree it is upsetting, and discussing it is like banging your head against the wall. Since my early 20's I looked at what the wealthy did and chose to emulate the things I could to copy their financial success. I studied through magazine articles, books, and nosy questions of random strangers.

The amazing thing was that the nosy questions were often met with a genuine willingness to give guidance to a young kid who wanted to better himself. There were, are and always will be many family businesses, but just being lucky to be born into a family with a business doesn't provide any guarantee of success.

With that being said. CEO correlation to being tall, with hair:

I look at it this way. Being top dog is a competition. Those that have been driven, disciplined, smart and competitive are the ones that make it. They have probably experienced many wins over their life times starting in elementary school and youth sports. Winning builds confidence and leads to more wins.

So if you spent your life sitting on the couch playing video games and eating cheese puffs, you aren't going to have what it takes to win the top spot in a big corporation. Unless, of course, the corporation starts selecting candidates on their ability to take on marathon gaming session while suffering from indigestion.

 

[Mdlerth]

Lucky to be unlucky

BTW, I do agree that being tall and (especially) being LUCKY enough to be born with "good hair" is helpful. FWIW, I'm short, bald (I very much prefer the term "hair free", though) and slightly overweight yet somehow managed to make it.

I'm average height, bald at age 16, and ugly. Yep, unlucky.

My mom's late older brother who became a millionaire in his 30s (back in the 1960s, when a million meant something!) was totally bald by age 25.

He said that it helped his law career, since it made him look so much older; important clients would have been reluctant to entrust him with big responsibilities if they thought he was just another inexperienced young snot.

 

[BeachOrCity]

Its interesting how some posters are referring to past times and how it is just "politics pure and simple". The fact is, that income inequality is rising. What most people feel were the USA's most golden economic years (1950's / 60's) was when income inequality was much less than it is now.
History doesn't always repeat, but we should learn from it. Rising inequality can lead to populist outcomes. Back from the late 1800's to early 1900's we had rising inequality and eventually this lead to the unions and social insurance systems despised by many.
So when people think, "I got mine all on my own, go get your own on your own"...you may end up being part of what creates a populist surge that will lead to new social insurance policies that will inevitably tax you.

Look at the below chart and think about it in the context of the timing of the introduction of social security, the rise and fall of trade unions, medicare etc.

 

[NW-Bound]

An earlier poster mentioned that CEOs tend to be men of better than average height.

And thick hair.

Then we get a nice exception in Steve Balmer, and he screws it up for all the rest of us. Thanks for nothing, Steve.

Steve Ballmer was among the founding group of Microsoft.

Plus, he's 6'5".

Wait a second. I've read the posters at school and hear the teachers.

They all say: "You can do anything you want!"

OK, here I'm not joking or being sarcastic. I think that's a problem! No, you can't do anything you want. You have to use the God given gifts you have to the best of your ability. That lesson seems to be lost.

Speaking of being able to use your ability, the US is the place with the most opportunities for everybody. It's the best place to be.

In many countries, they use entrance exams to select students into desirable programs such as engineering, medicine, architecture, etc... And the test is all about math, physics, chemistry. While the test weeds out weaker students, there's a lot of rote learning. There's nothing to allow people with creativity and innovation to compensate for lack of ability to do an integration by parts in 30 seconds, or can write down the formula of morphine from memory. If you are not among the selected, then you are completely locked out of achieving something you dream for your entire childhood.

And I said this, being among the few that passed such entrance exams into two desirable colleges. And I had the top grade in these two exams. Yes, the scores were published.

I much prefer the US system, where people can have a shot in another way. Gates and Jobs never finished college to get any degree. The same is true with many successful entrepreneurs.

There are many reasons why the US has been leading in technology. Are Americans really smarter than people elsewhere? And why do other countries suffer brain drain to the US, when their smartest come here?

The USA is not perfect, but in terms of opportunities, it is far better than other countries. I am not among those who complain.

 

[NW-Bound]

Back to talk on luck, I just remember this. I have read that college graduates who were unlucky to hit the job market during a recession not only forfeit income for some time due to longer time to seek employment, but they also have lower lifetime income as a group.

My son graduated with a mechanical engineering degree during the Great Recession. He languished for 6 months, partly because he did not want to move hence only looked for job locally.

My son's break came when he accepted a job as a lab technician for a semiconductor company. He applied himself and tried to learn the best he could. He did not think of this as a career, but it was something interesting and worthwhile to learn, plus it provided him with income and something to do.

It did not take long for his boss to open up an engineering position for him. And his boss encouraged him to go for his master degree, as the company paid for it.

My son told me that another woman engineer had a technician job similar to his. Not long after working, she called in to say she quit. On the other hand, I always taught my son to do the best he could, and learned as much as he could. Even in that technician job, there was so much that was not taught in school, and he found everything interesting .

When I leaned about his boss noticing his work and offering the promotion, I told my son that this was the place for him. It showed that management there still cared about having good workers. I have been to a place where managers only cared about their advancement, and spent no time to nurture people working for them.

Sorry for the side track, but I wanted to tell a story where a conscientious hard worker got rewarded. If my son felt the technician job was beneath him, he would not be where he is now as a senior engineer. He overcame his bad luck of graduating into the Great Recession.

 

[JoeWras]

Steve Ballmer was among the founding group of Microsoft.

Plus, he's 6'5".

Ah, so the height got him in!

Nah, I meant his time at CEO was not so good. Made bald guys look bad.

Speaking of being able to use your ability, the US is the place with the most opportunities for everybody. It's the best place to be.

No doubt about it. Just be rational about your dream.

For example, I grew up during the Apollo missions. It is probably a big reason I got into technology. However, even at age 6, it was obvious I was not super physically gifted. That didn't cause me to retreat to my basement with just books, no. But it did cause me to think about a career as a baseball player, which I loved and played little league all the time. I also remember watching the stuff on TV about the astronaut training. Mom probably helped me think this way, but somewhere in there, I realized I was not the guy to be jogging with a tube on my face or being spun in a centrifuge.

So, I went into science. Astronaut support, if you will.

Not everyone can be the actual astronaut.

 

[Rianne]

My son told me that another woman engineer had a technician job similar to his. Not long after working, she called in to say she quit. On the other hand, I always taught my son to do the best he could, and learned as much as he could. Even in that technician job, there was so much that was not taught in school, and he found everything interesting .

You should be proud of your son. He made the best of an opportunity and excelled.

I'm not sure the comparison of the woman, also an engineer, relates to the success of your son. Do you know why she quit? It could have nothing to do with her abilities/talents or intelligence or her willingness to achieve and capacity for hard work.

 

[NW-Bound]

You should be proud of your son. He made the best of an opportunity and excelled.

I'm not sure the comparison of the woman, also an engineer, relates to the success of your son. Do you know why she quit? It could have nothing to do with her abilities/talents or intelligence or her willingness to achieve and capacity for hard work.

As I recall, she was not happy about the technician work. Perhaps she thought it was beneath her as an engineer. My son did not think she found a "real" job when she quit this one.

PS. The fact that she was a woman was incidental. I should not even mention it. This semiconductor lab technician work was often tedious, dealing with measurements in the submicron or nanometer range. And the popular thinking is that women are more patient than men.