I am helping my brother with his auto insurance

How about your home owners policy did that make you whole?


Well, yes, in a way. Up to the limits of the policy. For example; my policy covered landscaping at 10% of the home's value. That's $10,000 for every $100,000 of home-only value. I have 5 acres of woods/forest. An oak tree is valued at $500 say. I lost 100 of 'em. Right there I'm over the policy limit. Just to clear the dead trees, including their root balls, cost more than that. It's hilly, so the soil was destabilized after removal. I had to have a soil engineer come in to verify the soil was restored to at least 95% of original compaction. So just downing the dead trees, removing the rootballs, hauling away and then recompacting the soil, certified by an engineer, cost me almost twice what the insurance coverage was. This does not replace a single tree, just cleans things up so I can at least start to build by getting a building permit.

Many more examples, but that should give you an idea.
 
Thank you for more food for thought! I'm trying to optimize car insurance cost and not be double insured, but your described scenario definitely describes having adequate liability insurance. Most responsible insured people do not carry enough liability insurance to cover the above scenario, that's for sure! As far as UIM goes, in Washington state, the Washington supreme court ruled in favor of insurance companies that they are allowed to be the adversary not the fiduciary in UIM claims.


I have a million dollar liability policy just for such risk. In order to get it, I had to have half a mill on the cars. So the umbrella is for the second half mill.



BUT...
Insurance covers accidents. What if it wasn't an accident? What if it was a crime? In my case, the woman with the damaged car was fleeing an auto accident; hit-n-run. The fire to my home was charged and convicted as arson of an occupied building. Her insurance shouldn't have paid a dime. Insurance companies do not pay off for criminals who commit crimes. Only for accidents.

So, if the other driver is committing a crime, maybe their insurance won't pay off. I don't know how that works; at what level. Does running a red light constitute a crime that the driver willfully committed so their insurance isn't obliged to pay victims because it wasn't an accident? Makes me scared enough to be sure I'm insured for my loss from others no matter what the circumstances.
 
We are just going through this process. Just got the kids off the insurance and were reviewing our policies. Our agent told us to increase the property damage part of the policy to $100k (from $50k). He said lots of cars now cost more than $50k so if you are in an accident with multiple cars, the $50k would not be enough.
 
Uninsured/Uninsured Motorists Coverage

These are the only things he can change with the Umbrella. With health insurance are these three needed?

Uninsured Motorist Bodily Injury
$250,000 per person/$500,000 per accident

Underinsured Motorist Bodily Injury
$250,000 per person/$500,000 per accident

Medical Payments
$10,000 per accident

In many states, buying at least a minimum limit for Uninsured and/or Underinsured Motorists coverage is mandatory with no ability to opt out. I also suggest this person shop around rather than reduce the coverage.
 
As my net worth went up I started wondering whether I should raise my insurance coverages, not lower them. I reasoned that I had become a bigger target than I used to be. When I didn’t have much, I probably wasn’t very interesting to ambulance chasing attorneys. But now I might be. That is when got my first umbrella policy. I did raise my deductibles a lot figuring I could afford the occasional deer hit, smaller accident that I probably wouldn’t turn in to insurance, etc. Raising the deductibles probably offset the higher limits on all my other coverages. I also started acquiring coverages for toys (musical instruments) that I had never needed before. Because I can now afford some pretty expensive toys, and the coverage is really cheap in relation to the cost of vintage bluegrass instruments.
 
These are the only things he can change with the Umbrella. With health insurance are these three needed?

Uninsured Motorist Bodily Injury
$250,000 per person/$500,000 per accident

Underinsured Motorist Bodily Injury
$250,000 per person/$500,000 per accident

Medical Payments
$10,000 per accident

If you have insurance through your auto policy, might you have the opportunity to direct your care better than if you have to rely on your health insurance to approve treatments or therapies or the location at which you choose to get those treatments or therapies?
 
In my state, uninsured and underinsured are optional, not mandatory. But you always want to protect yourself to the same extent that you protect others. Liability insurance protects others from your negligence and protects you from their claims. UM/UIM protects you from the negligence of others who didn't have the foresight to buy insurance at the levels you do.

The declarations page tells you how much each component of insurance costs for each vehicle. The highest is nearly always collision and comprehensive for damage to the vehicle.

The best way to save on car insurance: get rid of the BMW and buy a low-mileage used car that is at least ten years old.
 
Still with same insurer for last 6 years. Home Car. Still think its wise to shop. I shop mine every 2 years. I don't pay the most, and I don't pay the least. For the few claims they paid immediately and no funny games with raising rates etc. Feeling confident in your insurer, is sometimes worth a little more vs a maximized skin to the bones policy. You get what you pay for.
 
After 15 years of having at least 1 kid on my insurance, we're finally down to just DW and I. Yay! I've got to start looking at our remaining coverages (2 cars, Homeowners, Umbrella) and see if we can get a better deal somewhere else. Been with State Farm for 4 decades. Probably should have done it sooner.

Not really sure what UM does in my state. I didn't have it for years, but it's cheap and you just have to get it on one car to be effective on the other cars. More research is needed.
 
Never, Never, Never drop Uninsured/under insured insurance from your policy! This is one of the most important coverages. There are so many illegals and bums in this country that are not insured if you get hurt you have no one to recover damages from. I have had know personally of several people here in AZ that when a car hit them the occupants just got out and ran, later to find out the car was either stolen or uninsured by illegals!
 
As a follow up most insurance in a various states only require $15,000.00 policy to get insurance to meet the requirements. Plus many states a policy is required to get the auto registered or a drivers license, but the insurance companies are only required to sell you a policy for 1 month to make you legal. What happens is that the illegals or bums in your state will purchase a one month policy and let it run out. The under insured part of the policy covers you form the people who only purchase the minimum amount of insurance required. Auto now days cost 25,000.00 and above.
Third note I believe 250,000 is a minimum amount for someone with a 1 million net worth. We had someone from our church (he was 87) pull out in front of a tractor-trailer he go killed and totaled the tractor-trailer. A $250,000.00 policy would not cover his accident his wife was left with nothing, and a lot of legal bills.
 
Never, Never, Never drop Uninsured/under insured insurance from your policy! This is one of the most important coverages. There are so many illegals and bums in this country that are not insured if you get hurt you have no one to recover damages from. I have had know personally of several people here in AZ that when a car hit them the occupants just got out and ran, later to find out the car was either stolen or uninsured by illegals!

In my state, UM only covers injuries - not cars. So, I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it for someone that already has good medical coverage. I suppose it might cover deductibles, co-pays, co-insurance - so I could see maybe a few grand of benefit. I don't work, so there's no lost wages. I guess it would also cover pain and suffering. Am I missing anything?
 
No you are insuring yourself against the possibility that the other guy who hits you has no insurance or too little to pay for your costs.

It does not pay the other guy for anything.

We would not need it as much, if low limits for insurance were raised to high levels. It would still be needed if someone drove without a license or stole a car and drove it into you.

In the '70s, before uninsured coverage, my car got totaled by some loser who was uninsured. Well, actually I was the loser because I never saw a dime from the bum. He lost his license for nonpayment, but I doubt that affected his behavior much.
 
@fanofjesus, IMO this is pretty crazy. You have advice from posters with completely unknown insurance expertise and who live in states probably different than yours. You also have irrelevant anecdotes. At best that is a recipe for confusion. At worst a recipe that could lead you to make a major mistake.

Please, please, consult at least a couple of independent insurance agents as well as the agent who now has the business. They will know insurance and they will know your state laws. They may also be able to reduce your brother's insurance bill via shopping the coverage and/or changing the amounts of coverage. Your current agent will have a significantly renewed attention to your needs as soon as he/she becomes aware that you are shopping the business. See my post #15.
 
@fanofjesus, IMO this is pretty crazy. You have advice from posters with completely unknown insurance expertise and who live in states probably different than yours. You also have irrelevant anecdotes. At best that is a recipe for confusion. At worst a recipe that could lead you to make a major mistake.

Please, please, consult at least a couple of independent insurance agents as well as the agent who now has the business. They will know insurance and they will know your state laws. They may also be able to reduce your brother's insurance bill via shopping the coverage and/or changing the amounts of coverage. Your current agent will have a significantly renewed attention to your needs as soon as he/she becomes aware that you are shopping the business. See my post #15.

If everyone comments on the subject in such a straight forward and direct way, the threads will be a lot shorter and less entertaining ;)
 
The last person you want to consult is the person trying to sell you something! Conflict of interest.
 
The last person you want to consult is the person trying to sell you something! Conflict of interest.
Lovely theory but impractical in practice. Do you not consult your dentist on dental matters? Your car mechanic on automotive matters? Your vet on pet care?

But this is why it is important that the OP contact more than one agent and let them all know he is shopping.
 
Lovely theory but impractical in practice. Do you not consult your dentist on dental matters? Your car mechanic on automotive matters? Your vet on pet care?

But this is why it is important that the OP contact more than one agent and let them all know he is shopping.

All of your above examples have scammed me one way or another in the past. I trust nobodies opinion that take my money. I inform myself in all matters before handing over a penny
 
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All of your above examples have scammed me one way or another in the past. I trust nobodies opinion that take my money. I inform myself in all matters before handing over a penny
Yup. Agree completely. But the answer is not to avoid asking experts about complex issues. I am not going to consult my vet on insurance matters or my insurance agent on my sick dog. THe answer is to do as you say, be wary.
 
Yup. Agree completely. But the answer is not to avoid asking experts about complex issues. I am not going to consult my vet on insurance matters or my insurance agent on my sick dog. THe answer is to do as you say, be wary.

Lol, no doubt, taking advice from Internet folk, crazy. I use this forum to ping thoughts that I want to research further though. Lots of smart folk here.
 
In my state, uninsured and underinsured are optional, not mandatory. But you always want to protect yourself to the same extent that you protect others. Liability insurance protects others from your negligence and protects you from their claims. UM/UIM protects you from the negligence of others who didn't have the foresight to buy insurance at the levels you do.

The declarations page tells you how much each component of insurance costs for each vehicle. The highest is nearly always collision and comprehensive for damage to the vehicle.

The best way to save on car insurance: get rid of the BMW and buy a low-mileage used car that is at least ten years old.

I can agree only partially with your first 2 paragraphs. In your first paragraph, I can't say that someone needs always to protect himself to the same degree that he protects others. In the case of UM/UIM, I have a limit lower than my BI Liability limit but still higher than the state's minimum (Financial Responsibility, or FR) limit. I am more concerned about getting sued by someone else due to it being my fault in an accident than I am being able to recover damages from my own insurance company due to damages done to me by an uninsured or underinsured driver. Hence, the lower limit, something always permissible when buying UM/UIM.

I worked for 23 years in the actuarial field, specializing in personal auto insurance. I can tell you that BI Liability and Collision were almost always the two costliest coverages, followed by 3 other coverages pretty close together: PD Liability, No-Fault (if your state allows it), and Comprehensive. Comprehensive can be more costly if someone has a newer car, or lives in an area prone to losses covered by Comp such as theft or natural disasters. No-Fault can be more costly if the basic package is set at a high level. But Collision is always more costly than Comprehensive although their rates decline as the car ages, unlike what you find with BI, PD, and No-Fault. Their deductibles and the Liability and No-Fault limits also determine what you pay for each.

As for UM and UIM, there are 4 distinct coverages in this family. UMBI, Uninsured Motorists Bodily Injury, is the simplest. It protects you from injuries caused by an uninsured driver. This can also include pain and suffering. Many states require UMBI to be bought at some low FR. You can buy higher limits of UMBI, up to your BI limit.

UIMBI, Underinsured Motorists Bodily Injury, protects you from injuries caused by an underinsured (not uninsured) motorist. UIMBI is sometimes a mandatory coverage, like UMBI. But UIMBI has a wrinkle because how it applies can vary from state to state. There is a broad type of UIMBI, a more restricted type of UIMBI, and a third type between the two extremes. You are usually stuck with whatever type is set by your state.

UMPD, Uninsured Motorists Property Damage, protects your car from damages caused by an uninsured motorist, such as hit-and-run. UMPD is not always allowed in some states. In a few states, it is mandatory like UMBI. In other states, it is optional. Because its coverage overlaps with Collision, in some states UMPD is limited to non-Collision buyers.

UIMPD, Underinsured Motorists Property Damage, protects your car from damages caused by an underinsured motorist. This coverage is quite rare compared to the other 3 coverages in the UM/UIIM family. Because of this, I very rarely reviewed the coverage in the few states which allowed it to be sold.
 
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