If you were buying a car today...

[brewer12345]

I agree. I'm not much of a "crossover" vehicle fan either. They all look like station wagons to me...only slightly more interesting than minivans. (No offense to any crossover or minivan drivers!!!)

Heh, I am happy to see crossovers on the road, but what I'd really like to see are station wagons.

 

[Midpack]

The research shows that car quality is not determined by who "builds" the car, but rather who "designs" it. I agree on the 3-4 years comment, although I don't follow it (cars are a hobby of mine).

Dave

What research is that exactly?

 

[HFWR]

Escalade? Glad everyone's pitching in to reduce our dependence on foreign oil and reduce carbon emissions...

 

[Midpack]

Escalade? Glad everyone's pitching in to reduce our dependence on foreign oil and reduce carbon emissions...

Surprised me too. Even if I wanted one and could afford to feed it, I wouldn't buy one with the outlook for resale...

 

[ziggy29]

I agree. I'm not much of a "crossover" vehicle fan either. They all look like station wagons to me...only slightly more interesting than minivans. (No offense to any crossover or minivan drivers!!!)

That's okay. Neither I nor my 33 MPG Toyota Matrix take offense.

 

[FinanceDude]

Already better than any GM product . . .

Can't argue there...........

 

[FinanceDude]

The research shows that car quality is not determined by who "builds" the car, but rather who "designs" it. I agree on the 3-4 years comment, although I don't follow it (cars are a hobby of mine).

Dave

SO, your premise is that the Big Three have the "dumbest designers" on Earth?

 

[Independent]

Heh, I am happy to see crossovers on the road, but what I'd really like to see are station wagons.

I'm with you. I'd buy an ordinary Altima or Accord station wagon in a heartbeat.

What frustrates me is that nobody offers an "on-road" suspension option for a crossover. I own a Murano. I'd be much happier with it if the factory offered a suspension that drops the ground clearance to about 5.5 inches, and uses the lower center of gravity to improve the ride/handling. It would still look a little strange, but it would handle like a station wagon.

 

[FinanceDude]

I'm with you. I'd buy an ordinary Altima or Accord station wagon in a heartbeat.

I am so hoping that Honda brings the Accord wagon back.........

How about an Accord wagon hybrid??

 

[brewer12345]

hat frustrates me is that nobody offers an "on-road" suspension option for a crossover. I own a Murano. I'd be much happier with it if the factory offered a suspension that drops the ground clearance to about 5.5 inches, and uses the lower center of gravity to improve the ride/handling. It would still look a little strange, but it would handle like a station wagon.

Oh, they do: its called a Subaru.

 

[FinanceDude]

Oh, they do: its called a Subaru.

 

[brewer12345]

You forgot the "and, yes, it does look a little strange" line. C'mon people, you gotta swing at those easy pitches.

 

[FinanceDude]

You forgot the "and, yes, it does look a little strange" line. C'mon people, you gotta swing at those easy pitches.

I don't like AWD, or there would be a Subie in my driveway today.......

 

[al_bundy]

That's okay. Neither I nor my 33 MPG Toyota Matrix take offense.

you must drive all highway and no cargo, in NYC my Matrix averages around 25 mpg. only time i had it average 33 was on I-95 going opposite of traffic.

 

[al_bundy]

SO, your premise is that the Big Three have the "dumbest designers" on Earth?

they design for the between the rockies and appalachians crowd who don't live close to a college campus

 

[Da Nag]

Heh, I am happy to see crossovers on the road, but what I'd really like to see are station wagons.

IMO, one of the absolute best deals out there right now, are 2000-2003 Mercedes E320 Wagons. MBZ has it's share of high maintenance and/or unreliable vehicles, but the W210's from this time period are not amongst them.

Reliability is top notch. They don't drive like crossovers or SUV's - they handle beautifully. Visibility is excellent. Few vehicles offer greater safety. The back folds down perfectly flat, resulting in massive amounts of storage, or sleeping space - we carry stuff up top in a cargo carrier, and sleep in the back quite comfortably at rest stops. Do-it-yourself maintenance is easy and cheap. Creature comforts are up there with most new vehicles. If you need it, the 4-Matic AWD option is every bit as good as a Subuaru, and results in a minimal mileage hit. Gas mileage is very respectable for a car this size...on my last road trip, with a cargo carrier on top going 75 on I-5, I averaged 26.5 MPG - the cargo carrier results in a 1.5 MPG hit. Ours is AWD - a 2WD wagon would get another 1.5-2 MPG.

These vehicles sold for upwards of $60K new - picked ours up last year for $14K, in excellent shape with low miles.

The down sides: Finding one that hasn't been abused, might take a while. Unlike MBZ sedans, many of which can be found in spotless condition with great service records, the wagons are typically kid/dog haulers. I looked at 10 or so, over a period of a couple months before finding the right one. They also require premium fuel, negating some of the decent mileage figures.

 

[ziggy29]

you must drive all highway and no cargo, in NYC my Matrix averages around 25 mpg. only time i had it average 33 was on I-95 going opposite of traffic.

90% highway traffic, slowing down to about 60 MPH, very little starting and stopping.

That's up from about 30 MPG when gas was cheaper and I was mostly driving 70-75.

 

[Goonie]

What frustrates me is that nobody offers an "on-road" suspension option for a crossover. I own a Murano. I'd be much happier with it if the factory offered a suspension that drops the ground clearance to about 5.5 inches, and uses the lower center of gravity to improve the ride/handling. It would still look a little strange, but it would handle like a station wagon.

What you're describing sounds like my Chevy HHR......low-slung, low center of gravity, and rides & handles like a dream. About 24 mpg in stop & go traffic in town, and 30+ mpg on the highway (if I don't drive like a lunatic ). On a recent expedition out of town, I got 34 mpg (w/o a tail-wind or going downhill ) Base price starts at $17,370 or go fully loaded with every available option for $26,910.

 

[brewer12345]

IMO, one of the absolute best deals out there right now, are 2000-2003 Mercedes E320 Wagons. MBZ has it's share of high maintenance and/or unreliable vehicles, but the W210's from this time period are not amongst them.

Reliability is top notch. They don't drive like crossovers or SUV's - they handle beautifully. Visibility is excellent. Few vehicles offer greater safety. The back folds down perfectly flat, resulting in massive amounts of storage, or sleeping space - we carry stuff up top in a cargo carrier, and sleep in the back quite comfortably at rest stops. Do-it-yourself maintenance is easy and cheap. Creature comforts are up there with most new vehicles. If you need it, the 4-Matic AWD option is every bit as good as a Subuaru, and results in a minimal mileage hit. Gas mileage is very respectable for a car this size...on my last road trip, with a cargo carrier on top going 75 on I-5, I averaged 26.5 MPG - the cargo carrier results in a 1.5 MPG hit. Ours is AWD - a 2WD wagon would get another 1.5-2 MPG.

These vehicles sold for upwards of $60K new - picked ours up last year for $14K, in excellent shape with low miles.

The down sides: Finding one that hasn't been abused, might take a while. Unlike MBZ sedans, many of which can be found in spotless condition with great service records, the wagons are typically kid/dog haulers. I looked at 10 or so, over a period of a couple months before finding the right one. They also require premium fuel, negating some of the decent mileage figures.

What does service and repair cost you? I woudl entertain the thought of a luxury car on a used basis, but the thought of shelling out big time for parts and service is something of a turn-off.

 

[SarahW]

Escalade? Glad everyone's pitching in to reduce our dependence on foreign oil and reduce carbon emissions...

pffffft. Each disposable diaper uses 1/2 pint of oil to produce. If parents would go back to using cloth diapers, the oil crisis would be over.

 

[Zathras]

The article says "could", not "will". These articles are notorious for being way wrong.

Well, considering there are people getting conversions to turn their Prius into plug-ins which will get 100mpg, I think 80mpg is conservative

 

[Da Nag]

What does service and repair cost you?

RE service - I do my own routine maintenance, which is easy and cheap. For example, there is no easier vehicle to perform an oil/filter change on - it can be done from under the hood in 15 minutes. I don't even get into my grubbies - just toss on a pair of disposable gloves. Costs about $60 every 10K miles. I mail order the oil and parts, and have curb-side recycling - so it's actually quicker and more convenient than taking it in, not to mention about 1/2 the cost. Several other filters need changing at 20-40K intervals - all are inexpensive, and easy for the moderate DIY'er.

Brakes take a little more mechanical aptitude, but not much...a complete brake job with four new rotors, pads and sensors, runs about $400 in parts, every 40K miles or so. Takes a backyard mechanic with a floor jack and a few hand tools, perhaps two hours - my mechanic would charge about $200 in labor.

Can you encounter an expensive repair bill? Absolutely...but on this particular model/range of years, it's the exception on well maintained vehicles. Given the prices they are going for (I see low mileage 2WD wagons listed for $8-10K routinely), one needs to encounter many unexpected issues before even approaching the price of a new Honda/Toyota. Which of course...drive like Hondas and Toyotas. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

There are two expensive repair issues I've seen mentioned with any regularity, but I wouldn't call them frequent. Per my mechanic, catalytic converters should last 75-100K miles, but they can and do fail sooner - about $2K when they do. Another occasional report one sees for this model are instrument cluster failures - also about $2K. Still - even if one encounters both of these problems, it's still a lot of car for the money.

 

[BunsGettingFirm]

What you're describing sounds like my Chevy HHR......low-slung, low center of gravity, and rides & handles like a dream. About 24 mpg in stop & go traffic in town, and 30+ mpg on the highway (if I don't drive like a lunatic ). On a recent expedition out of town, I got 34 mpg (w/o a tail-wind or going downhill ) Base price starts at $17,370 or go fully loaded with every available option for $26,910.

Isn't the HHR based on the Cobalt? I drove a rental Cobalt and thought it was fine. I was doing 75 on I-4 and found the ride to be nice and quiet. Pick up could be a bit faster with the 4-speed auto, but then again, gas mileage would have suffered. The only strange thing I found is that the ride is sometimes very serene but sometimes, like on the Ft. Myers to Tampa stretch of I-75, to be kind of noisy. The car supposedly has Quiet Steel, so I'm surprised that different roads can make such a difference.

 

[Independent]

What you're describing sounds like my Chevy HHR......low-slung, low center of gravity, and rides & handles like a dream. About 24 mpg in stop & go traffic in town, and 30+ mpg on the highway (if I don't drive like a lunatic ). On a recent expedition out of town, I got 34 mpg (w/o a tail-wind or going downhill ) Base price starts at $17,370 or go fully loaded with every available option for $26,910.

Way back when PT Cruisers came out, I thought that would be a good car for me. When I tried one, they just seemed too "crude" compared to the mid-sized sedans I had been driving. I've never tried an HHR, but the little I've read about them made me think it would be very similar to the PT. I've thought about something that size, but I think I'd do a VW Rabbit/GTI quicker.

 

[HFWR]

pffffft. Each disposable diaper uses 1/2 pint of oil to produce. If parents would go back to using cloth diapers, the oil crisis would be over.

I used to wear cloth diapers, but I kept sticking myself with pins...