kids vs. retirement

[Notmuchlonger]

I could have never guessed this thread would have taken its current direction so fast..

This is like an annuity discussion. You know where its going to go but you just have to watch

 

[Nords]

so, what's your number? what's the suggested number of kids to have? how much extra can you invest with just one kid? do you feel missed out by just having one child? does the extra loves from having 3,4 or more kids worth the extra 5-10 years of working life?

Been a while since we've had this discussion, but we generally conclude that it's far more of an emotional decision (to have or to have not) than a financial decision.

IMO money has little bearing on the situation. You immediately know when your family's the right size. Unless you have multiples-- then it's also possible to immediately know when you've overshot the mark. Just coping with our first convinced us that a second was out of the question.

I wasn't aware that having fewer kids would free up more investment money! Just kidding-- you should be saving an extra $2533.45 per year per child. Nope, still kidding.

Seriously, though, I think that the first kid forces most parents to grow up and start thinking about retirement, maybe even ER. The second kid forces most parents to think about budgeting & saving. The third & subsequent kids spawn truly creative & frugal-minded lifestyles, so it's not a linear equation. The result may be that having more kids might actually be better for encouraging ER.

 

[ats5g]

I was reading "Spend 'Til the end" by Burns and Kotlikoff, who note in the book that people w/ kids get used to a lower standard of living. Therefore, having kids may actually promote LBYM. My rather unscientific sample of my parents/uncle/in laws [who had kids] and my uncle + aunt [who didn't] suggests this is true.

Interestingly enough, while my 2 kids have cost me money, they made up for it in other ways. For example, I'm now much more social, am much more pateint, am able to have much more clear expectations for others, am better able to organize and lead, am able to communicate better and explain myself better, etc. In addition to making me a better father, most of this makes me a much better husband, son, coworker, supervisor, neighbor, etc.

My mom, a pediatric RN, told me that at a recent conference a presenter said that his research showed that kids are only compliant 50-60% of the time. After which I'm sure all the parents in the room said "No s**t Sherlock!" I wonder if that is 50-60% of the time with the parents, or with others. My kids are angels with other adults, but then lose it when they get home.

- Alec

ps - if you want to know what your kids are going to be like, ask your parents what you were like as a child. This is a good reason your parents are so good with your children - they've been dealing with you your whole life.

 

[bbbamI]

Kids = expense. I don't have any children so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. Carry on.

 

[ziggy29]

Having no kids made it much easier for us to LYBM, save money, retire quite early, and ride off into the sunset to do whatever we pleased.

But I don't think most people choose to have kids based on their retirement goals. We had decided no kids long before we realized that way early retirement was an option for us.

Audrey

What she said.

 

[Leonidas]

Seriously, though, I think that the first kid forces most parents to grow up and start thinking about retirement, maybe even ER. The second kid forces most parents to think about budgeting & saving. The third & subsequent kids spawn truly creative & frugal-minded lifestyles, so it's not a linear equation. The result may be that having more kids might actually be better for encouraging ER.

As a co-worker once said, "having a kid changes your life, having a second kid is an even bigger change, but having that third kid is like waking up and finding yourself in charge of a small and very poor country."

 

[Bestwifeever]

We have a ton of friends with no kids--I don't think finances figured into their decisions (or ours to have them). Interestingly for the most part they are no better off financially than DH and I, and our friends who are parents, are. Only our friends w/kids have RE'd, also interestingly.

 

[FIREd]

My wife and I don't have kids and don't plan on having any. My 15 year old niece is spending the summer with us (not my idea!) and after this experience I am more convinced than ever that I do not want kids. Goodness, I have a new found respect for her parents and their ability not to lose it. Maybe it's her "goth" style, maybe it's the loud "metal" music all day, maybe it's her having an opinion on everything (especially if she knows she can pi$$ me off), I don't know, it makes me want to get a vasectomy.

But, although our decision not to have kids was not based on financial considerations, we are fully aware that it will have a financial impact on our ability to retire early (in our 40's most likely).

So how many kids should you have? Well, only you and your wife can answer that question.

<------- those are our only "babies"...

 

[CitricAcid]

My wife and I don't have kids and don't plan on having any. My 15 year old niece is spending the summer with us (not my idea!) and after this experience I am more convinced than ever that I do not want kids. Goodness, I have a new found respect for her parents and their ability not to lose it. Maybe it's her "goth" style, maybe it's the loud "metal" music all day, maybe it's her having an opinion on everything (especially if she knows she can pi$$ me off), I don't know, it makes me want to get a vasectomy.

But, although our decision not to have kids was not based on financial considerations, we are fully aware that it will have a financial impact on our ability to retire early (in our 40's most likely).

So how many kids should you have? Well, only you and your wife can answer that question.

Having to deal with crappy music is a very important factor in many decisions involving children, it seems. [/kindasarcasm]

 

[FinanceDude]

Having to deal with crappy music is a very important factor in many decisions involving children, it seems. [/kindasarcasm]

I'm sure my dad, his dad, and his dad's dad would agree...........

 

[CyclingInvestor]

My wife and I don't have kids and don't plan on having any. My 15 year old niece is spending the summer with us (not my idea!) and after this experience I am more convinced than ever that I do not want kids. Goodness, I have a new found respect for her parents and their ability not to lose it. Maybe it's her "goth" style, maybe it's the loud "metal" music all day, maybe it's her having an opinion on everything (especially if she knows she can pi$$ me off), I don't know, it makes me want to get a vasectomy.

But, although our decision not to have kids was not based on financial considerations, we are fully aware that it will have a financial impact on our ability to retire early (in our 40's most likely).

I knew early on that I preferred dogs to kids, so I was clipped at 27 - the earliest I could find someone who would do the job on a young, un-married guy. Although not done for financial reasons, I am sure this was a significant factor in lowering my expenses and making retirement earlier.

 

[Marquette]

You are killin' me........I'm going to take my 6-year old to Best Buy and try that!!

Come on. Kids, child birth, open box, the joke is right there!

Don't go to best buy, their return policy sucks. You should always buy your kids at costco.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Hey Marquette, I can't have kids, I'm contagious to them.

I have used Cycling Investor's story when explaining our (same) decision to friends and family. We waited a bit longer, and were married, but when you know, you know.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Don't go to best buy, their return policy sucks. You should always buy your kids at costco.

Yeah but then you have to buy two of them shrink wrapped together and they're twice as big as regular kids. But the price is right.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

like waking up and finding yourself in charge of a small and very poor country.

Constantly in a state of rebellion and uprisings.

 

[ProspectiveBum]

I gotta write that our two kids have really had no impact on our early retirement. I've never understood any of the posts about kids being expensive or a detriment to early retirement.

First, we both worked and were able to sock away lots of money from the get go. Second, we had our kids when we were in our late 30s, so our pattern of LBYM was well-set before kids and we kept on that path after kids. Third, our kids will not be in college at the same time.

No impact? At all? I love my kids dearly, and have no plans to try to exchange them at the local big box store, but those buggers are currently accounting for 27% of our spending (they're our biggest expense category). Factor in the fact that if not for them we could downsize to a smaller home with no regard for school districts, etc., and there's no doubt in my mind that we could probably ER a full 10 years sooner if not for the kids.

I'm not complaining. We're very happy and comfortable with the lifestyle choices we've made, but there's no doubt that we're paying a price for those choices. You may not MIND the financial impact your kids have had, but there has certainly been one, whether you choose to recognize it or not.

 

[Khan]

Come on. Kids, child birth, open box, the joke is right there!

Don't go to best buy, their return policy sucks. You should always buy your kids at costco.

Mother sometimes threatened to 'send us back'

 

[haha]

No impact? At all?

I puzzle over statements of "no impact" too. How could children have no impact on expenses? Everything they do costs money. Even their pooping costs money. Those Pampers are not given away free, once you have used that first complimentary pack .

Even John Galt who was infamous for making absurd claims never tried that one.

Ha

 

[CitricAcid]

I puzzle over statements of "no impact" too. How could children have no impact on expenses? Everything they do costs money. Even their pooping costs money. Those Pampers are not given away free, once you have used that first complimentary pack .

Even John Galt who was infamous for making absurd claims never tried that one.

Ha

Who is John Galt?

Was he the guy who predicted the dotcom crash and the real estate crash? 8)

 

[laurence]

I would say the cost is less than some people think - for one we have less opportunity to spend money. Instead of fine dining on Friday night, we are eating mac and cheese. Instead of the theatre, we go to the park. Instead of a weekend in Palm Springs, it's camping in our future!

But if your lifestyle is already super LBYM then I think a significant rise in costs is inevitable.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Who is John Galt?

Was he the guy who predicted the dotcom crash and the real estate crash? 8)

An old poster here, who was famous for his hogwash, and oh yeah, the guy from the Ayn Rand novel Atlas Shrugged.

 

[Enuff2Eat]

I'm just going to say that finances never entered the equation on the number of kids to have. I have hopes of being the cool grandpa who has plenty of time to hang out, take them camping, teach to fish, read 4 pillars of investing out loud...

i was wonder why don't you have an additional of 3,4 or 5 more kids if finance never entered the equation. i was hoping to have six children until i get the diapers and day care bills.


enuff

 

[ProspectiveBum]

i was wonder why don't you have an additional of 3,4 or 5 more kids if finance never entered the equation. i was hoping to have six children until i get the diapers and day care bills.

Why on earth would *anyone* want 6 kids? Seriously, unless you're running a farm and need the [-]slave[/-] free labor, there wouldn't seem to be enough time or attention to go around (never mind the financial implications).

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Hey, what if you had six really, really good names and couldnt decide?

 

[Enuff2Eat]

Why on earth would *anyone* want 6 kids? Seriously, unless you're running a farm and need the [-]slave[/-] free labor, there wouldn't seem to be enough time or attention to go around (never mind the financial implications).

Here is a man with seven kids. Yes, may be he got a farm but he did it because he can and for an average American, i know it's like commiting suicide.

Mel Gibson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia