LA Times: Number of millionaires in US reaches a new high

[TimSF]

I've heard the CA arguments before but honestly when I sit down with a clear head I don't see it as being outrageously expensive especially for retirees. For e.g. if you own your home all you would pay is the RE taxes which are far less than many other states. My RE taxes are only $4500 per year. A paid for house worth at least $500k is good to have in retirement I would imagine. HELOC on it or the option of selling and moving to a cheaper state later if needed is a great plus. Food is food, I can't imagine a BigMac costing less elsewhere than here. Sure gas is a bit more but in retirement you're probably not driving all that much. Non tangible things, the weather is a huge plus but the traffic is a huge minus at least in the big cities. So what am I missing?

+1. For those in CA who have owned their homes for awhile, Prop 13 saves us a lot of money. The state income tax is less of a factor for those of us in retirement with modest incomes. If you move outside of LA or SF, day-to-day cost of living is pretty reasonable.

 

[Andre1969]

Read it somewhere that when "millionaire" word was first coined, it was worth $4M in today's dollar.

Nah, it would be more than that. FWIW, in 1962 when the first thing you knew old Jed's a Millionaire and the kinfolk said Jed move away from there, $1M would equate to about $7.77M in today's dollars.

For things to go up 4x would put the date around 1976-1977 (1976 yielded about a 4.13x increase and 1977 was around 3.85x)

I wonder if, even in the 1960's, by Beverly Hills standards, a millionaire was no great shakes? There was a line in the Beverly Hillbillies about the children of the mere Millionaires feeling intimidated by the children of the truly wealthy! Although, FWIW, Jed Clampett started off with $25M.

 

[Jack_Pine]

Nah, it would be more than that. FWIW, in 1962 when the first thing you knew old Jed's a Millionaire and the kinfolk said Jed move away from there, $1M would equate to about $7.77M in today's dollars.

For things to go up 4x would put the date around 1976-1977 (1976 yielded about a 4.13x increase and 1977 was around 3.85x)

I wonder if, even in the 1960's, by Beverly Hills standards, a millionaire was no great shakes? There was a line in the Beverly Hillbillies about the children of the mere Millionaires feeling intimidated by the children of the truly wealthy! Although, FWIW, Jed Clampett started off with $25M.

Made my day. Any Retirement/wealth management discussion that includes Jed Clampett and his net worth is wonderful.

 

[Mango1956]

+1. For those in CA who have owned their homes for awhile, Prop 13 saves us a lot of money. The state income tax is less of a factor for those of us in retirement with modest incomes. If you move outside of LA or SF, day-to-day cost of living is pretty reasonable.

+2 If you are willing to live outside the Bay area in Norcal, and live in a paid for house, Prop 13 is indeed a huge help. Our taxes are 2170 a year. And being in the 15% tax bracket helps as well. I looked at moving to Oregon recently, and property taxes on a similar house would double. Then there's all the rain they get. The climate and lifestyle here=hard to beat! Mango

 

[Ready]

Someone must have spiked my morning coffee, I'm usually much more civil at this hour.

But is it not reasonable to see a correlation between the taxes one must pay to live in a state and the overall desirability of the state?

If there were a state in some part of the country where it was unbearably cold in the winter, and horribly hot and humid in the summer, and it had the highest taxes in the country, who would choose to live there?

We talk about how valuable our time is on this forum, and how we don't want to waste any precious time we have because life is short. Then we tell people to go move to some part of the country where they will be holed up all winter long waiting for the thaw to come, then suffer unbearable humidity all summer. But tell them how great it will be to save a few dollars in taxes.

It just seems like a real contradiction to me that I've never understood.

 

[Hamlet]

Those of us in Minnesota get to have the terrible weather AND high taxes.

On the plus side, all of our kids are above average.

Someone must have spiked my morning coffee, I'm usually much more civil at this hour.

But is it not reasonable to see a correlation between the taxes one must pay to live in a state and the overall desirability of the state?

If there were a state in some part of the country where it was unbearably cold in the winter, and horribly hot and humid in the summer, and it had the highest taxes in the country, who would choose to live there?

We talk about how valuable our time is on this forum, and how we don't want to waste any precious time we have because life is short. Then we tell people to go move to some part of the country where they will be holed up all winter long waiting for the thaw to come, then suffer unbearable humidity all summer. But tell them how great it will be to save a few dollars in taxes.

It just seems like a real contradiction to me that I've never understood.

 

[Gumby]

Plenty of millionaires here in CT. It is expensive -- both housing costs and taxes -- but it is the best place I've ever lived, and I've lived all around the country, first as a Navy brat and then during my own time in the Navy. (My second choice would be either the Seattle area or Maine).

 

[Accidental Retiree]

+2 If you are willing to live outside the Bay area in Norcal, and live in a paid for house, Prop 13 is indeed a huge help. Our taxes are 2170 a year. And being in the 15% tax bracket helps as well. I looked at moving to Oregon recently, and property taxes on a similar house would double. Then there's all the rain they get. The climate and lifestyle here=hard to beat! Mango

+3

We also looked in Oregon and found that state taxes, utilities, and property taxes all together were going to triple or quadruple expenses for us.

Add to that travel costs for having to leave the state for some of the year in search of sunshine.

We finally decided to sink or swim with California.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Plenty of millionaires here in CT. It is expensive -- both housing costs and taxes -- but it is the best place I've ever lived, and I've lived all around the country, first as a Navy brat and then during my own time in the Navy. (My second choice would be either the Seattle area or Maine).

I addressed a wedding gift to Ridgefield CT to "Richfield, CT" when I misheard the city. But then I realized Richfield probably was correct too.

 

[robnplunder]

Nah, it would be more than that. FWIW, in 1962 when the first thing you knew old Jed's a Millionaire and the kinfolk said Jed move away from there, $1M would equate to about $7.77M in today's dollars.

I think that is correct. My memory isn't very good these days.

 

[pb4uski]

I addressed a wedding gift to Ridgefield CT to "Richfield, CT" when I misheard the city. But then I realized Richfield probably was correct too.

Spot on.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

+2 If you are willing to live outside the Bay area in Norcal, and live in a paid for house, Prop 13 is indeed a huge help. Our taxes are 2170 a year. And being in the 15% tax bracket helps as well. I looked at moving to Oregon recently, and property taxes on a similar house would double. Then there's all the rain they get. The climate and lifestyle here=hard to beat! Mango

Even in the Bay area we have retired friends on Medicare, with paid for houses, and Prop 13 property taxes, and they do not spend any more to live than the low end posters in the monthly budget thread.

They also get the scenery, parks, beaches, and weather for free, do not need to spend a lot on heating or cooling, have ready access to mass transit, produce from the central valley at farmers' and ethnic markets for dirt cheap prices, and can utilize free days or free library passes at most of the museums and other tourist attractions.

 

[haha]

They also get the scenery, parks, beaches, and weather for free, produce from the central valley at farmers' and ethnic markets for dirt cheap prices, and free days or free library passes at most of the museums and other tourist attractions.

This kind of thing is to often overlooked. Any amenities you get but you do not have to maintain are worth a lot; not the least because as you age you can continue to enjoy them without the "I really ought to trim that hedge, mow that grass, shovel that snow." Also, these are fine climates- no need to spend money to escape summer or winter.
Add no need to escape bad weather to no need to go elsewhere seeking beauty or stimulation and IMO it pays to think long and hard before you leave an attractive, stimulating, temperate area even if it does perhaps cost a bit more day to day. Even the people you meet are different.- which may of course be a plus or minus for you.

Ha

 

[explanade]

Taxes are low but you deal with congestion and traffic even if you don't have to commute.

 

[robnplunder]

I spent my high school years in LA. I ain't going back there. Most folks (I've met in Bay Area - disclaimer) who escaped from LA say the same thing. They won't go back. Smog & traffic, crimes, ...

Yeah, I ran into a few celebrities in LA (Smother's brothers, Fonzi, to name a few) in 4 years I was there. So what? LA is LA. Bumping into celebrities now and then doesn't change things.

 

[LoneAspen]

Plenty of millionaires here in CT. It is expensive -- both housing costs and taxes -- but it is the best place I've ever lived, and I've lived all around the country, first as a Navy brat and then during my own time in the Navy. (My second choice would be either the Seattle area or Maine).

I went with some friends once to visit their relatives in Stamford (or, in my best accent...Steeyamfuhd) for a bat mitzvah. Now, living in the Bay Area I'm used to seeing occasional displays of wealth. But driving around Stamford, it was amusing driving by some prep school or private school, and seeing the multiple Ferraris, Bentleys, etc, parked for a lacrosse game or some other outdoor event.

There are "pockets" of wealth here in the Bay Area, but driving around Stamford it seemed more...evenly dispersed, for lack of a better description. Maybe it was due to the smaller size of CT. It was more concentrated in that area I guess.

 

[Major Tom]

I spent my high school years in LA. I ain't going back there. Most folks (I've met in Bay Area - disclaimer) who escaped from LA say the same thing. They won't go back. Smog & traffic, crimes, ...

Yeah, I ran into a few celebrities in LA (Smother's brothers, Fonzi, to name a few) in 4 years I was there. So what? LA is LA. Bumping into celebrities now and then doesn't change things.

Celebrity was quite a big deal to me when I was younger - not so much for the brushes with fame, but because these were people who shaped the culture I grew up in. Music was a big deal to me as a youth, so seeing or meeting a person who made the records I grew up with was a memorable experience. I felt the same way about actors and actresses, though to a lesser extent.

I went to Henry Winkler's (Fonzi's) house once - not as a friend, but in a professional capacity. He used to live in Toluca Lake (maybe he still does). The encounter I had with him that tickled me pink though was seeing him in line to get an autograph from Nick Mason, the drummer for Pink Floyd. One celebrity getting an autograph from another That's the side of Nick Mason's head on the right -

I'm glad to be away from the poor air quality and do appreciate the more compact nature of the Bay Area, but those times were fun. Not sure I'd want to go back. I prefer to keep moving on. As I said earlier, I do understand that LA's not for everyone. It may not even be for me anymore.

 

[Options]

With apologies for the off-topic comments..........

I lived in LA for 20 years and it is indeed quite surreal. One of my co-workers had well-to-do parents who rented a beach-front home in Malibu for him while he was working as a low-level manager in a retail establishment. David Hockney was one of his neighbors. Another friend lived across the street from Tim Curry in the Hollywood Hills. I bumped into celebrities on a regular basis, both as a result of my job, and simply from just being there and keeping my eyes open. I took a 3 year hiatus from LA (in Reno) and on moving back there with my (then new) girlfriend, she had a typical "LA experience" on her first morning there. We parked the U-Haul truck in the parking lot at the Farmer's Market on 3rd and Fairfax. As we were walking into Dupar's Restaurant for breakfast, she walked slap-bang into Kiefer Sutherland, who was leaving. She literally bumped (quite hard) into him. Without batting an eyelid, she looked at him from point-blank range and said, "Oh hi Kiefer!" He looked back, a bit puzzled, said "Hi", and walked on. Then we walked into the diner, had breakfast and marveled at her "welcome to LA" moment.

I know a lot of people scoff at the place - I get a fair bit of that up here in the SF Bay Area but for me, at least, there was something about it that was magical. I didn't care that I was living in a very average apartment and riding an old motorbike (later an old Volvo, and then a bicycle), because I liked the experiences my life was made up of. I must admit I get a bit defensive when some of the people in the Bay Area visibly shudder on learning that I used to live in LA. I can appreciate why it's not for everyone, but a part of me wants to at least attempt to convey some of the magic that I felt to them.

I don't find LA magical at all; I think it's pathetic. Jane Fonda gave a speech (on breast cancer or something) not two blocks from my house. I'm supposed to be impressed? Actors to me are just people who pretend, nothing more. The Bay Area, where I grew up, is no better anymore. I used to say the Bay Area was LA without the "glamor", as in horrendous traffic, smog, gangs, graffiti, sprawl, the ugliest shopping malls, etc. Now the Bay Area is just as pretentious with it's self-absorbed high tech culture. It's highly likely I will be deserting CA entirely for the Pacific NW in a couple of years.

To stay on topic, it figures it would be the LA Times that would feature this article. Surface is what sells down here.

 

[Major Tom]

Jane Fonda gave a speech (on breast cancer or something) not two blocks from my house. I'm supposed to be impressed?

You're not supposed to be either impressed or unimpressed. Your reaction is entirely yours, and as such, as valid as anyone else's reactions and opinions.

 

[aim-high]

I don't find LA magical at all; I think it's pathetic. Jane Fonda gave a speech (on breast cancer or something) not two blocks from my house. I'm supposed to be impressed? Actors to me are just people who pretend, nothing more. The Bay Area, where I grew up, is no better anymore. I used to say the Bay Area was LA without the "glamor", as in horrendous traffic, smog, gangs, graffiti, sprawl, the ugliest shopping malls, etc. Now the Bay Area is just as pretentious with it's self-absorbed high tech culture. It's highly likely I will be deserting CA entirely for the Pacific NW in a couple of years.

To stay on topic, it figures it would be the LA Times that would feature this article. Surface is what sells down here.

Tell us how you really feel.

JK. I feel the same. I'm disappointingly amazed at the level of our celebrity culture.

 

[Major Tom]

aim-high - I'm with you when it comes to the way in which many people are now famous for simply "being famous". The reality shows, Kardashians, Paris Hiltons etc do nothing for me. I don't get it at all.

I do appreciate gifted actors who are able to bring a story to life though. IMO, actors are the storytellers of our age, and good acting takes a great deal of natural talent, and hard work to develop that ability.

But who cares what a Kardashian is doing or wearing? It couldn't matter less to me.

 

[Options]

You're not supposed to be either impressed or unimpressed. Your reaction is entirely yours, and as such, as valid as anyone else's reactions and opinions.

Sorry Major Tom, that sentence wasn't aimed at you!! Bad writing on my part. I was asking that question of people in LA, who are all impressed with themselves. A friend's friend visiting from North Carolina said that in LA it's like everyone is on an audition. I thought it was a great analogy. You can probably tell that how I really feel is that I want to get out of here, and perhaps out of California entirely. Regarding the topic, I don't care who is a millionaire and who is not. I care about what kind of person someone is. I'm grateful for my net worth, but that doesn't define me.

 

[Major Tom]

Options - my apologies if that remark of mine was a bit incendiary. I do understand where you're coming from. The odd thing is that though I worked on the edges of the entertainment industry in LA for 15+ years, I am an introvert who keeps very few friends and judges people by how they treat others - not by "who they are" or what they have.

I hope it's not too long before you're able to leave. Sounds like you're at the point where every extra day in CA is one day too many.

 

[haha]

Sorry Major Tom, that sentence wasn't aimed at you!! Bad writing on my part. I was asking that question of people in LA, who are all impressed with themselves. A friend's friend visiting from North Carolina said that in LA it's like everyone is on an audition. I thought it was a great analogy. You can probably tell that how I really feel is that I want to get out of here, and perhaps out of California entirely. Regarding the topic, I don't care who is a millionaire and who is not. I care about what kind of person someone is. I'm grateful for my net worth, but that doesn't define me.

Higher density of very attractive young women in far western LA districts than anywhere else that I have seen anyway.

Ha

 

[Options]

Options - my apologies if that remark of mine was a bit incendiary.

...

I am an introvert who keeps very few friends and judges people by how they treat others - not by "who they are" or what they have.

...

I hope it's not too long before you're able to leave. Sounds like you're at the point where every extra day in CA is one day too many.

No worries, Major, I think I could have written that better. About leaving here, the answer is, Exactly!

Higher density of very attractive young women in far western LA districts than anywhere else that I have seen anyway.

Ha

Yep, it's the beautiful people syndrome. Trouble is, they're all emotional train wrecks. There's a reason Justin Bieber lives here...