Low NW FIRE

[Snappy]

I think the problem is people have been sold on the fact that if they don't spend a ton of money traveling to exotic locations, they are not living their life to the fullest. The same people will fly first class to Tokyo (sitting in a chair in a confined space much smaller than our RV) spending many thousands of dollars and yet they have never hiked to the 90 foot waterfall 10 miles from their house.

Great thread, and appreciate the perspective of fellow low-cost-traveling RV’ers. It got me thinking that I’d like to have a burger and beer with Fermion and talk about past travels. But then I thought that Fermion may not like beer or burgers, and maybe I’d have a better time shooting the breeze with Moemg if he shared my love of brew and meat. Possibly they both find my tastes repulsive, and would rather hang out with each other discussing space travel over wine and fish. Not that any of those gatherings would need to cost very much, but possibly someone would want to pony up for the best?

 

[Moemg]

. But then I thought that Fermion may not like beer or burgers, and maybe I’d have a better time shooting the breeze with Moemg if he shared my love of brew and meat.

Moemg is a women but I would love to have a beer and burger with you .

P.S. I am not an RVer

 

[Major Tom]

Moemg is a women

I was waiting for that correction

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I think the problem is people have been sold on the fact that if they don't spend a ton of money traveling to exotic locations, they are not living their life to the fullest. The same people will fly first class to Tokyo (sitting in a chair in a confined space much smaller than our RV) spending many thousands of dollars and yet they have never hiked to the 90 foot waterfall 10 miles from their house.

We thought initially we would downsize and do more traveling in retirement ourselves, but ended up getting a pet and doing more local events and clubs, following the many small pleasures model instead:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...1208/buying-happiness-one-small-purchase-time

"However, every time I pay over $3000 for us just to fly to Europe, I think "wouldn't we be happier if we went to a few more baseball games, ate dinner at a few nicer restaurants, and went to a few more movies instead of spending all of our travel funds on one vacation?....In sum, this study shows that, compared to a higher price point, at a lower price point, people pay more attention to what’s important—sharing the experience with others."

 

[MrLoco]

Yes but for most people to achieve the level of net worth that allows them to do these "more" things, like trips to Antarctica for ice cream twice a year would involve them working until age 60. A few are fortunate to have a very high income and live in the correct market to achieve that level sooner but most are not.

So if you choose to retire at 45, then maybe you can't afford a lot of the exotic trips, but you have 15 years of better health to do some of the cheaper things. It cost only about $100 for us to hike the West Coast trail on the outer edge of Vancouver island. We had to take 50 pound packs and climb 200 foot ladders up cliffs but it was one of the most memorable trips I have taken, and I have been to Paris four times. Try doing that West Coast trail at age 60 or 65. It will kick your butt for most people.

Hmmmm....ok....but if one has the means (i.e. money), then one can chose to do the cheap things as well as the expensive things.
If one doesn't have the cash....then by definition one is limited to the cheap adventures. And note: cheap does not equate to "bad." If that is what you enjoy...then go for it.

Money gives you options. I like options. And we are young enough (58 and 56) and healthy enough to enjoy whatever activities we want to do for many years to come.

BTW....I got the little dig bout going to Antartica for ice cream. Nice try.

 

[street]

Do you know anything about their stories? Could be interesting...

They live in small towns or in rural setting where costs are low. They live below their means and enjoy the things that are free in life. A nice home you may buy for 20K. They live a low pace live and want no rat race life style. These people are very happy and enjoy their friends and families and don't need to travel the world and eat the best food that you can buy.

Even if they were very wealthy I don't believe their life styles would change one bit.

This is a normal thing living rural America.

 

[Perryinva]

I think the problem is people have been sold on the fact that if they don't spend a ton of money traveling to exotic locations, they are not living their life to the fullest. The same people will fly first class to Tokyo (sitting in a chair in a confined space much smaller than our RV) spending many thousands of dollars and yet they have never hiked to the 90 foot waterfall 10 miles from their house.

I think it is rather ingenious to suggest that. Where would you get that idea? I know people that say all travel is a waste of time, as you can see about anything you want with no discomfort for free in high def on TV. They could care less. But their view is no less valid than those that LOVE to be on a cruise ship. Not my cuppa tea either, but obviously tons love it.

There are more places with no waterfalls than there are with. Plenty of people don't want to hike, and don't see the reason. It is exactly the same as people that HATE to work, and do everything they can to retire as young as possible, that criticize those that work until 65 as wasting their life. For plenty of people, their career was indeed fun, fulfilling, well paying and stress free. They enjoy going to work. It doesn't mean either has been sold a bill of goods that they are either wasting their lives or not living it to the fullest. City vs country, RV vs First Class, east coast west coast, beach vs mountains... to each their own for enjoyment. On this site more people live a LWBYM lifestyle in order to be free sooner, and that is understandable, but it is not the only definition of early retirement or the "best" way to live.

But the bottom line is money does buy options, and for many, more work means more options.

And for me, I've lived in rural fly over country. No thanks.

 

[Fermion]

Eh, if people really enjoyed their job that much they would not post things like OMY, or censor the word w*rk.

For the majority of people, especially those with 1+ hour commutes, they look forward to saying bye to the job.

If your dream is to take a lot of cruises and do world travel in first class, then by all means work until age 60 so you can afford it.

 

[NW-Bound]

I've been thinking a lot about leanFIRE vs fatFIRE (and even "regular" FIRE). The biggest thing I keep coming to is the differing attitudes toward things like yard work, deal searching, couponing, etc. Same with spending a lot of time working on cars or going out of my way to save money on cars. I'll call this "retiree work".

If I spend 10-15 hours a week doing retiree work, that's a part time job as far as I'm concerned, and at something that I neither excel at nor particularly enjoy. So on enjoyment alone, I'd rather do my real work because it's so much more interesting and challenging. If I include money by considering my effective hourly rate at real work vs. the rate to hire retiree work out, it's even more in favor of doing the real work.

I was fortunate to be working in a specialized field that paid good money, and I was good at what I did too. Although I really enjoyed my work (it would be hard to be good at what one does if he does not like it and devote a lot of time to it), the corporate red-tape, idiocy, and jealousy took a lot of the fun out of it. I finally called it quit when the money and the fun work did not add up to enough to cancel out the above aggravation. I had my price, and if they paid me more, I could have done OMY or TMY. These guys probably later realized that I was pretty cheap for what I did for them, but it's all over now. But I digress...

I always do stuff around the house, and more now that I have time. Yes, I can pay somebody to do it, and I do when things are beyond my physical ability. But I need to do something to stay physically active (I cannot be traveling all the time), and having some job satisfaction is an important aspect too. I am not the kind of guy to spend hours on a treadmill or an exercise bike. I will go out to work in the yard, or do some home projects.

So, all what you call "retire work", saving money is not the only reason people take it on.

 

[haha]

They live in small towns or in rural setting where costs are low. They live below their means and enjoy the things that are free in life. A nice home you may buy for 20K. They live a low pace live and want no rat race life style. These people are very happy and enjoy their friends and families and don't need to travel the world and eat the best food that you can buy.

Even if they were very wealthy I don't believe their life styles would change one bit.

This is a normal thing living rural America.

This is likely a very romanticized picture. If rural life is so perfectamundo, why is opioid use so high, and overdose also very high?

Ha

 

[Fermion]

This is likely a very romanticized picture. If rural life is so perfectamundo, why is opioid use so high, and overdose also very high?

Ha

Opioid use high in rural settings...like Seattle?


Seattle, King County set new record for overdose deaths

 

[Music Lover]

But the bottom line is money does buy options, and for many, more work means more options.

Money does provide options...but as someone who has very little interest in material goods or expensive travel, I don't need to buy those options.

Either I'm lucky or I'm naïve...I'm not sure which one it is

 

[haha]

Opioid use high in rural settings...like Seattle?


Seattle, King County set new record for overdose deaths

Obviously saying that many rural areas have high opioid use doesn't not mean that large cities do not also. Furthermore, no one is trying to say that Seattle or King County is Shangrila, whereas I read on here how idyllic life in Potato-Ville is.

Ha

 

[Fermion]

Obviously saying that many rural areas have high opioid use doesn't not mean that large cities do not also. Furthermore, no one is trying to say that Seattle or King County is Shangrila, whereas I read on here how idyllic life in Potato-Ville is.

Ha

Based on the insane growth in Seattle and King county, a lot of people seem to think it is rather idyllic. Perhaps there are just drug users everywhere and that should not really indicate how nice or not nice a place it is.

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

Based on the insane growth in Seattle and King county, a lot of people seem to think it is rather idyllic. Perhaps there are just drug users everywhere and that should not really indicate how nice or not nice a place it is.

When drug dealers are trying to take over a territory, they sell better quality stuff. Maybe the same amount of drug use as before just more potent drugs. I know a little bit about this stuff

 

[aja8888]

If anyone here want's to see a real view of the "drug thing" in the U.S. and the world, just watch the National Geographic Channel one hour specials called "Drugs inc" that ran for a few recent years. Seattle is featured in one session as is most large and some small towns and cities.

This will really open your eyes and give you a good perspective as to how large the problem really is. And it's way more than just opioid use.

 

[NW-Bound]

I recently saw on Bloomberg an article about companies having a tough time getting non-addict employees. Do these people hate their job so much they have to get high to "ease the pain"?

If they retired early, would they quit and take on healthy pastimes? Somehow, I doubt it.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Each person needs to figure out for themselves what makes them happy. We did a ton of mountain hiking in our 40's and were still working f.t. We did it on vacations , weekends and nights after work. Now in our 60's we still exercise but not the same and enjoy vacations that are nicer. We still use our RV some but often the expenses really add up between gas and RV sites. I know there are cheaper ways to do it like staying on free land for a long time so no gas etc. This does not appeal to us.

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

If anyone here want's to see a real view of the "drug thing" in the U.S. and the world, just watch the National Geographic Channel one hour specials called "Drugs inc" that ran for a few recent years. Seattle is featured in one session as is most large and some small towns and cities.

This will really open your eyes and give you a good perspective as to how large the problem really is. And it's way more than just opioid use.

Sounds like an uplifting program.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I think the problem is people have been sold on the fact that if they don't spend a ton of money traveling to exotic locations, they are not living their life to the fullest. The same people will fly first class to Tokyo (sitting in a chair in a confined space much smaller than our RV) spending many thousands of dollars and yet they have never hiked to the 90 foot waterfall 10 miles from their house.

I think that was true for us to a certain extent and I'm trying to fall more into the waterfall category these days. Reading books on happiness and watching Tedtalks by some of the same authors has been my personal antidote to questioning the advertising model of happiness. Most of the research based happiness ideas are free or cheap, like meditating, increasing social connections and spending time out in nature. I don't recall having been to a waterfall this year but we do spend a lot of time at a Redwood park on a stream trail. I even bought an annual park pass so we can go for free on the weekends when there is a fee otherwise.

 

[brucethebroker]

1 million in what years' dollars?

The year you FIREd.

 

[NW-Bound]

I think the problem is people have been sold on the fact that if they don't spend a ton of money traveling to exotic locations, they are not living their life to the fullest. The same people will fly first class to Tokyo (sitting in a chair in a confined space much smaller than our RV) spending many thousands of dollars and yet they have never hiked to the 90 foot waterfall 10 miles from their house.

Although I love to travel, I have to agree with you. Much of my discretionary spending is because I can, not because I really have to.

A billionaire cannot say that I do not know what true happiness is because I can never afford a personal jet or even a fractional ownership, or because I do not own a personal island. Come on!

Sometimes happiness can be as simple as me learning to cook a new dish, and being able to pull it off, and serving it to my family and seeing them eat it up.

 

[brucethebroker]

Or watching the grandchildren's ball games.

 

[marko]

The same people will fly first class to Tokyo (sitting in a chair in a confined space much smaller than our RV) spending many thousands of dollars and yet they have never hiked to the 90 foot waterfall 10 miles from their house.

I used to fly Boston>Tokyo seven or eight times a year.

Had the great, great misfortune to have to fly coach once (just once) due to an emergency rush home; only seat left.
Eighteen hours in a coach seat? With three old Chinese women in the row behind me hocking loogies onto the floor every 30 seconds for the entire flight?

Sorry, I'll go First Class.

 

[aja8888]

Sounds like an uplifting program.

It's an extremely well done documentary that is well worth watching if you are interested in understanding the scope of the problem. There are about 15 or more episodes done over a multi-year span. You being a retired NYC officer would be interested in the NYC episodes.