Mental 'readiness' for ER

[Oz investor]

Perryinva,

<getonsoapbox>
You need to read more stories here about people who have friends or relatives that worked another year or two, to make just a bit more for retirement, got sick and died, and ended up not being able to enjoy any of that money. IMHO, you work until you are FI, then you get the heck out. Money is/should be an enabler (nothing more). Let money work for you, and stop working for it.

Quit work, redefine your life, and enjoy life to the max, while you are still young enough to enjoy it.
</getonsoapbox>

will a 'should have died ' story be close enough

i had the start of 2020 ( for retirement ) looking possible , but early 2017 that plan was torn to shreds . so a deep breath taken and a new approach in the trial phase .

but luckily i had started to do something when i had some spare cash ( if nothing else i have 7 years experience )

 

[Perryinva]

That’s the problem. I have been FI for years. Income is not remotely the problem. Before I found the ER forum I had a plan. Things have been better than expected so I took a few years off the plan to match the income and savings I originally wanted (adjusted fornhe longer time frame). Now it seems like so much time had passed that the “wow I’m FI, so I can stop anytime” factor has worn off. No stress since I can just walk anytime, and my employer knows that and (at this time) doesn’t want me to leave. Now it’s more “easy money, baby, why not?” I have unfortunately lost plenty of friends to early demise. It is less an incentive than I thought it would be. What has helped me here are all the others that say it was most definitely easily worth it to leave money in the table in order to enjoy a MORE carefree life.

But you know how it is when you never came from money. The idea of a solid 6 figure salary and bonuses are more a dream than an objective. Now I have it and I’m just going to walk away from it? I WISH they would downsize me out, force my hand , something to make me want to leave. Waiting until I think I am old enough doesn’t seem smart relative to the ERs here!

 

[EastWest Gal]

This thread is timely for me. I went back to work for a bit starting a year ago, to help the group make a major transition, and because health insurance in Pennsylvania is insanely expensive ($600/mo more than in neighboring states).

It was a good move. We put a 50 year roof on, added solar, and are upgrading the stove. Our cars are older, but we expect 100K more out of two of them. DS will probably stay home to finish grad school, and build up his private piano and percussion studio. In the meantime, he’s saving up loads, maxing a Roth IRA too. He’ll probably need to move into a house, teaching drums!

This thread has helped me choose a definitive end date, no later than Sept 1st next year, and sooner if I can. I’m planning on giving our medical regional directors advanced notice, even this month. It takes a year to find qualified physicians, so I won’t be booted out. And I won’t mind being booted out. Having quit 2 times before, I know I’ll be emotionally ready. The first time was tough, the second great but scary. This time will be scary too, but knocking off 2 years of health insurance expenses helps a lot. Even with the downturn, the portfolio has grown.

I also won’t keep my board certification this time. Harder to go back.

 

[Oz investor]

Perryinva ,

my unexpected retirement came with a silver lining , my activities are so restricted i am probably cash flow positive AFTER the extra investments ,

in 2022 they will re-assess and consider if to send me to rehab ( it isn't guaranteed at all )

i may learn new skills but i doubt i will ever be allowed back to any of the previous job sectors ( and DEFINITELY not the dry docks )

i will be stuck with the government heath-care no no-one else will touch me at any price , i have two distinct heart problems and the lungs work at 50% ( or less ) but there is so much more left to check .. yet ( already had two melanomas removed )

however i always guessed i would never make 80 ( a rarity for males in my family linage )

 

[Dtail]

But you know how it is when you never came from money. The idea of a solid 6 figure salary and bonuses are more a dream than an objective. Now I have it and I’m just going to walk away from it? I WISH they would downsize me out, force my hand , something to make me want to leave. Waiting until I think I am old enough doesn’t seem smart relative to the ERs here!

Perryinva,
You give a lot of great advice over at the CD forum about retirement.
You sound good to go. Give it a shot.....

 

[omni550]

Now I have it and I’m just going to walk away from it? I WISH they would downsize me out, force my hand , something to make me want to leave. Waiting until I think I am old enough doesn’t seem smart relative to the ERs here!

Well, if you're looking for something to force your hand...a health scare just might. (see concurrent thread on "My new stent", etc. etc.)

But, I sense that the greed you mentioned is the ultimate driver.

Sure hope you live long enough to eventually retire and enjoy it...or your widow and the "Chiclet-toothed pool boy" just might.

omni

 

[scrabbler1]

What helped me a lot to be prepared to retire was working part-time for 7 years. That enabled me to regain control over my personal life which included the more mundane tasks such as doing errands on weekdays at 11 AM, and starting or resurrecting hobbies and interests I could not do when I worked full-time.


Once the pieces fell into place in my ER puzzle (and they fell into place at age 45 instead of in my early 50s when I thought they would), I pulled the trigger and retired. That was 10 years ago. Going from working 2 days a week to zero days a week was not a big transition because most days I didn't have suffer through my long, tiring, and often sickening commute on the trains. Ending the commute totally was the main reason I retired.


I retired before the ACA was passed, so when I faced a 50% increase in my HI premium in only 2 years, I was getting a little scared that my ER plan would be in some danger. But the ACA, despite its recent shakiness, has been key in not only keeping me healthy physically (I had some health issues 3 years ago), but keeping me healthy financially.

 

[Oz investor]

omni550,

i have stent , that is why i was ( forcibly ) retired however the stent is a problematic experimental one which is why i am on 'medical watch' for 5 years ( up from 3 years )

was my hand forced ABSOLUTELY even the GP didn't see that coming ( the stent was withdrawn from the market 2 weeks after the implant )

on the plus side , i have known other heart patients

and gleaned one takeaway ... whatever you do , DON'T PANIC ! '

after that facing financial downturns should be much easier

 

[FIREd]

I experienced all the ER mental barriers listed by the OP:

1) Fear of losing a steady monthly income stream
2) Doubt regarding the sustainability of our current resources over a 40+ year retirement
3) Defying family's view on work ethics as well as society's expectations
4) Leaving a lot of money on the table by retiring early.

That being said, despite being a very cautious person, I felt quite willing to take my chances when it came time to retire. It was harder for DW, at least until the BS bucket started to overflow. Coming back to the 4 points above:

1) Not as big a deal as I expected. I have set up a monthly automatic transfer from Vanguard to our checking account and we quickly got used to thinking of it as our "paycheck".

2) After a few years of ER during a rising stock market, I am getting more comfortable with tapping our portfolio to pay the bills. The real test will come the next time the market corrects. There are still a lot of uncertainties regarding healthcare, SS, interest rates, market returns, inflation, etc... Then there is the potential for divorce, drawn-out illnesses, etc... I am in no way confident that our plan is bullet-proof. It could require some adjustments in the future but I knew that going into ER (and planned for contingencies accordingly).

3) turned out to be much less of a hurdle than expected.

4) Yes, we got burned by taking off the golden handcuffs too soon. We could have added another big chunk of cash to our portfolio by waiting just one more year for DW to retire (her employer's stock started shooting up unexpectedly a few months after she left and her stock options would have been worth a lot more a year later). We had stopped following the stock price after DW quit her job and it was a former coworker who alerted us to the sky-high stock price on Facebook. It stung when we heard the news, but we shrug it off surprisingly quickly. It would have been nice to have 40% more money, but it would not have changed much in the way we live.

 

[retired1]

Time vs. Money. What's more valuable to you? That's the quandary all of us have to sort out ourselves. Every personal/family situation is different. Some people continue because kids are going to college, some continue because they *think* they love their job, some continue because they feel secure with paycheck coming in.... everyone has their reasons.

If you can take "unpaid" time off for few months, and dry-run the ER... that'd be great. I've a feeling you'll not want to return to work http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/images/smilies/dance.gif

 

[Perryinva]

Part time is a distinct possibility and preserves the company matches and pension increases. I appreciate the kudos for CD advice, but honestly my advice is usually mathematical and objective observations. The actual act of retirement I try not to talk about much as I am not retired and while DW is, it is moot for her as she lives largely under my financial umbrella. The actual retirement is what I struggle with most and I cannot discuss it on CD as at my level of income (which while very good, is not seen as particularly large here) it is always seen as a humble brag with the inevitable “everyone should retire ASAP on $5k/mo, who would QUESTION that, oh boo hoo?” Kind of cr@p, and get their panties in a bunch when you talk $3k/mo SS. Here, people talk matter of factly about $10 & $15k/mo retirement incomes without pointing out that it is only the top 10-15% of retirees with that amount or more with that “problem “.

 

[JoeWras]

I'm not there yet. 4 weeks to go.

I prepared by setting out a plan over 5 years ago when I signed on to this board, and then trying to live up to it.

I have to admit last year's straight-up stock and real estate market kind of gave me a sense of arrogance. This year's vacillation and cooling of the local RE market has added a bit more hubris and mental checks.

But you know what? I kind of feel like I'm in the last seconds of a rocket launch. I've done all this prep and there were many pauses in place (including a stop at the 1 minute countdown mark -- my extending my original plan by 3 months), but not anymore. The engines are lit and we are going.

Pretty exciting. Maybe a bit scary. And for sure, time to explore something new!

 

[REWahoo]

I'm not there yet. 4 weeks to go.

...Pretty exciting. Maybe a bit scary. And for sure, time to explore something new!

Thirteen years after the fact I can still recall the euphoria from my last few weeks - and especially the cheek-aching grin from the days immediately following pulling the plug.

Found out a few minutes ago a friend and co-worker was let go yesterday. He swore when I retired he was 10 years behind me but it was actually 13. He was FI and could have pulled the plug at 10, but came down with OMYitis. Ironic how that malady is often cured by the source of the infection itself - via a layoff.

Just sent him a "congratulations" email.

 

[24601NoMore]

Hey, gang..OP here with an update..

Got an email from our Director this AM that basically makes what has to this point been an excruciatingly hard decision very, very easy. It's essentially a "state of the business (bad, as we missed our goals last quarter) and what we need to do to fix it" type of email. In it, he essentially TOTALLY redefines our job (basically to now be 100% "Sales" with all the other supposed KPIs we had nowhere to be found) and conveys very clearly that he expects us to achieve what are essentially totally impossible sales goals - period. Not said but very clear was those that do not make it will not have jobs much longer.

So, occasionally the universe does decide for you - whether you are ready for it to do so or not.

Guess the path forward is quite clear. It's high past time to go. Not sure I'm entirely ready for it, but it is what it is also.

I took some time around the 4th off, and candidly was of the mindset that I "did not want to" go back to the insanity and the craziness. And now the craziness has ratcheted up a whole 'nother order of magnitude.

Guess I'll find out very quickly just how solid that ER plan I've been working so hard on for so long now really will work. My DW made a good point yesterday when I was talking about not wanting to go back in that we at least HAVE a plan and have the option. Far too many people do not, and "have" to tough out even the most impossible scenarios (like this one) so I suppose I should just be happy that I even have the option to bail.

So, bottom line is that the decision has pretty much been made FOR me. I'm somewhat (?) looking forward to starting the next chapter of my life and being able to focus on getting my health back (hopefully) vs running myself further into the ground, but am also a bit sad to be facing what's essentially total defeat on the career front. I'm just not wired to give up, but this is not a winnable fight and there are times where recognizing reality is perhaps the wisest thing one can do.

 

[MichaelB]

So, bottom line is that the decision has pretty much been made FOR me. I'm somewhat (?) looking forward to starting the next chapter of my life and being able to focus on getting my health back (hopefully) vs running myself further into the ground, but am also a bit sad to be facing what's essentially total defeat on the career front. I'm just not wired to give up, but this is not a winnable fight and there are times where recognizing reality is perhaps the wisest thing one can do.

Giving up is not the same as moving on. You have a plan, are in control of this situation and can choose the next moves based on your needs. This is no defeat. If anything, it's a win for you and a loss for your employer. Congratulations for making the career choices and doing the things that now allow you to choose what comes next.

 

[Aerides]

I agree, it's not a defeat when someone else moves the finish line in the last mile - that's dirty pool, and you'd be very wise to walk away now.

In my OMY while awaiting a potential layoff, my boss tried similar shenanigans of setting crazy goals to overcome shortcomings in higher leadership (out of my control completely). It was laughable.

I hope you turn in your notice this week. Messages like this should grant you the clarity to get off the merry go round, and grant not one more day than necessary to this nonsense.

 

[24601NoMore]

I hope you turn in your notice this week. Messages like this should grant you the clarity to get off the merry go round, and grant not one more day than necessary to this nonsense.

Good advice, and I'm considering doing exactly that. The issue is that we have a TON (as in $25K+) of upcoming house expenses to fix things that we've been putting off, and I'd hoped/planned for the next stock vest in mid-August to cover that. I COULD dig into the piggy bank but another $25K+ net is somewhat compelling.

Really weighing whether I can even put up with another 30 or so days of this insanity or if it will wreck my health even further. It is beyond maddening, and almost if not already to the point of "the money just isn't worth it". But walking away from that when I'm literally 30'ish days away would be something I'd probably regret for quite a while also.

It's taking ALL OF MY WILLPOWER and then some to not respond to Director guy with a tactful but well written "are you out of your freaking mind?" response. Won't accomplish anything but you're spot on in saying they "moved the finish line in the last mile". Totally redefining someone's job should not be something any company can do - not at least without giving your reasonable notice to know the change is coming and to decide if it's in alignment with your skillset, your interests, your career goals, etc. Basically wake up one morning to "surprise! You now have a totally new job with impossible goals. Good luck! Oh, and if you don't achieve the totally impossible goals - you're fired".

Nice..

I talked with one of my peers and we're considering whether going to HR about this would make any difference. (Basically should not be able to redefine an entire job responsibility with an email and no notice..one would think HR tends to frown on things like that)..but in reality and through painful first hand experience I've known that HR generally won't give a rat's patookie and are there primarily for lawsuit prevention and not a whole lot else..

 

[24601NoMore]

Giving up is not the same as moving on. You have a plan, are in control of this situation and can choose the next moves based on your needs. This is no defeat. If anything, it's a win for you and a loss for your employer. Congratulations for making the career choices and doing the things that now allow you to choose what comes next.

Thanks..I'm very grateful that I DO have a plan and options (to not put up with this). The only thing is that I now will have to live by that plan and hope to God and all that's Holy that it's solid. I "think" it is but you know what they say about plans..something along the lines of "even the best plan doesn't survive first contact with the enemy" (or some such thing)..

Guess I'm gonna find out..ready or not..

BTW, I'm only mid 50s and a big part of this is that I just don't feel like I "should" retire. Old school in that respect - people work till they're 65, right? To that point, I was at a family gathering over the 4th and one of the people in the family that knows of my plans to RE asked how long until I was retiring - in front of 25 or so other people. Felt very uncomfortable and somewhat surreal to answer that it was within the next couple of months. Seemed like there was a lot of unspoken but clearly thought "huh? Aren't you like mid 50 something? What do you mean, RETIRE?". Ugh.

 

[Aerides]

30 ish days?

Delete the email, take long lunches. Bring headphones and listen to your playlist. Wear jeans. Leave early. You can mentally walk away while still showing up for a month. (Ok I know you don't think you can, but you can). Treat every day like you are out of body, just observing, and floating above the madness.

Don't engage your manager on it, don't fight, it doesn't matter. If he asks what you think? Just shake your head, smile and say "it doesn't matter".

If you can't do that, you should quit today. $25k when you are MORE than ready to ER and FI (per your prior posts), it's a meaningless number. You will fret about it because that's how you're wired, but that's a blip day on the market which will mean absolutely nothing to your bottom line a year from now.

Wouldn't it be more fun to just say screw it and walk?

 

[24601NoMore]

Wouldn't it be more fun to just say screw it and walk?

Absolutely, and I sure want to do EXACTLY that. Would serve those *(^Q&*%! right.

The $25K probably is a blip in the grand scheme of things, but it's enough a blip to make me want to tough it out - but the cost (in terms of stress and additional damage to my health) is also quite high also. Literally getting down to a "is it worth it?" back and forth in my mind..

The tough thing about checking out mentally is that we now have a 3-day offsite in early August to talk about all this and how we are going to fix it. I'm one of the more vocal people on the team and always have some strong opinions..so if I sit there without saying anything, it's going to be very obvious very quickly..I tried that the other day on a call when he was going over one of his ingenious new ideas and he called me out directly on it because I wasn't saying anything..I just didn't agree, so why argue? Pointless. So the 3-day offsite "how do we fix this?" meeting is going to be a living hell at best and not sure I can even do it at this point - so saying the hell with it this week (if not today) has higher probability than it otherwise would..

 

[Dtail]

Your name is "RetireSoon", not RetireOMM/Y. It sounds like it is time. Don't wait too long.
I had 72 people reporting to me. I don't miss it one bit.
My biggest decision today is to further develop a good lob shot in playing Pickleball.

 

[Carpediem]

The tough thing about checking out mentally is that we now have a 3-day offsite in early August to talk about all this and how we are going to fix it.

Watch (or re-watch) the movie Office Space and figure out a way to have fun at the offsite. Maybe bring some fresh fish with you. Seriously, I would try to tough it out for 30 days.

 

[Conundrum]

OP, I don’t know if you are in a megacorp or not but the pressure is likely coming from very high up the food chain and the director is hating life just like you.

If you must hang in there for 30 more days I would recommend the following.

ALWAYS take your lunch and breaks. Maybe a short walk on your break time. Preferably out of the work place not munching at your desk reading emails.

Ratchet up your exercise. Get a good sweat going. My doc said once if he could put exercise in pill form a portion of his patients wouldn’t need medications.

Run a very clean diet. It will help

Very best of luck to you! You’re almost there

 

[24601NoMore]

OP, I don’t know if you are in a megacorp or not but the pressure is likely coming from very high up the food chain and the director is hating life just like you.

Yep to both - in a MegaCorp and the pressure is definitely coming from above my Director (likely our EVP - his boss) and flowing down hill.

Good advice on the breaks - I tend to work 12-16 hours a day and never leave my home office. Eat a Powerbar for lunch at my desk while still working. No wonder I'm cooked. I do work out daily, but even that does not really help. Still feel half dead from the stress. Not fun.

I'm seriously considering bailing earlier than the next RSU vest at this point. It's been a very bad day and I haven't gotten a drop of real work done - too much commiserating with my peers and friends outside of the company, but we're all powerless to do anything about it. Not sure I can make it 30+ more days at this point and going to talk to DW tonight to determine what we do. Painful.

 

[kimcdougc]

Look forward, 30 days is not long. If unbearable, go in and tell the higher ups you can't stand it anymore and today is your last day. What are they going to do? Fire you? Life is short.