Mental 'readiness' for ER

OP, boil it down:
1) You hate your job and it's slowly, literally killing you.
2) You can afford to leave that job.

A facet of FI is that you have options. You're not trapped!

If you have a certain fear factor (common and understandable) remember that you can RE and find a part time job or a full time job later on if things get tight. Or just find another job right now and ease into it; it might pay less but your "other income stream" (your FI part) would cover your needs.

Good luck!
 
Conundrum said:
My work was killing me (literally).
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Yeah - same here..health has not been good and I'm well aware of why (w*rk). Actually had a family doc say she that I should do FMLA to "get you out of there". Maybe I should have listened to her..

Every quarter that I can manage to eke out at this point covers 3/4s of the expenses that I don't have covered via the income stream I've steadily built up over the past couple of years..so, basically every quarter becomes just about another year of fully paid for ER expense. But also not worth the trade-off in health and unless the market takes a major cr*p (entirely possible it seems), we "should" be just fine financially to get to Medicare and SS. Helps that DW is a few years older than me as she'll get there first, which will reduce some of the HC cost between ER and Medicare and could conceivably also pull SS (we're not waiting until 70 - don't need to, and a "bird in the hand" is what we feel is prudent given all the uncertainty).

Very tough decision but increasingly coming around to the realization that I either need to find another job in the company or call it a day and be done with it.

Next vest is 2 months out so plan is to at least get to that point then have a chat with my boss about where things are going and my need to make a change - hopefully still within the company but if it instead means I ER then I guess that's that..
 
street said:
I believe you mentioned some concern if markets tank you may struggle. I know you know this but you should of had that plan in place on how you are going to play the game if times get tough. If it is that you can't make it then you may want to reconsider ER. Have a plan for the worst and hope for the best.
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Agreed. Just to clarify since I probably wasn't very clear on this - my plan does support the markets going to cr*p and staying there as we have a larger liquid kitty (eg: CDs, MMs) than most people would do since we're super conservative. We can pay the bills just fine even if that happens. It's just the psychology of looking at your net worth drop and still be able to say "it's all only on paper". Of course, the same is true with a high NW also - "it's all only on paper" (until you sell).

Sometimes I read about people who are heavy equities and perfectly comfortable even close to or (gasp) IN ER. That's not us. We're probably 25-30% equities and the rest is in much lower risk (bonds or cash). Some (especially the BH crowd) would say that's not the way to go, but we sleep much better at night. That said, a 2008 style bear would freak the crap out of me purely from a psychological standpoint watching that 30% become 15 (or less) %. I have somewhat good confidence "it'll come back" but approaching early 60s we may not have time for it do so as neither of us expect to live long lives. That's why cash at 2.8 - 3% is currently our preferred comfort zone..

ETA - the plan also factors in inflation. So, even though our cash is mostly treading water..interest helps pay the bills and we are comfortable absorbing the decrease in buying power with the original $$s..that's what we have the invested assets to help make up the gap on. Hopefully over time the invested kitty grows in value and offsets the decrease in purchasing power in the cash kitty. In the meantime, interest and dividends from divvy paying stocks help pay the bills.
 
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FI =FU.
identify what is killing you about the job and find a way to remove it or leave now. Your health is not worth piling up bigger stacks of cash.
 
RetireSoon said:
Agreed. Just to clarify since I probably wasn't very clear on this - my plan does support the markets going to cr*p and staying there as we have a larger liquid kitty (eg: CDs, MMs) than most people would do since we're super conservative. We can pay the bills just fine even if that happens. It's just the psychology of looking at your net worth drop and still be able to say "it's all only on paper". Of course, the same is true with a high NW also - "it's all only on paper" (until you sell).

Sometimes I read about people who are heavy equities and perfectly comfortable even close to or (gasp) IN ER. That's not us. We're probably 25-30% equities and the rest is in much lower risk (bonds or cash). Some (especially the BH crowd) would say that's not the way to go, but we sleep much better at night. That said, a 2008 style bear would freak the crap out of me purely from a psychological standpoint watching that 30% become 15 (or less) %. I have somewhat good confidence "it'll come back" but approaching early 60s we may not have time for it do so as neither of us expect to live long lives. That's why cash at 2.8 - 3% is currently our preferred comfort zone..
Click to expand...

Start at 25-30% equities in retirement also works for the "rising equity glide path" strategy:

https://www.kitces.com/blog/should-...is-a-rising-equity-glidepath-actually-better/

https://earlyretirementnow.com/2017...e-withdrawal-rates-part-19-equity-glidepaths/

Some recent discussion on the above approach @ bogleheads.org:

https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=241198
 
I'm also struggling with material wants versus needs, and knowing I could retire now, living in a condo or small house for the rest of my life...or giving up years 53 and 54 to be able to buy a nice house and a sports car I've always wanted. But what's really most important? Every year I work now is a year less of diving and living. I have an eye condition in one eye, and if the other one goes, then all my dreams of travel and diving are for naught. Need to focus on what's really important. I'd hate to be blind in a really great house, and not be able to enjoy the view.
 
HNL Bill said:
I'm also struggling with material wants versus needs, and knowing I could retire now, living in a condo or small house for the rest of my life...or giving up years 53 and 54 to be able to buy a nice house and a sports car I've always wanted. But what's really most important? Every year I work now is a year less of diving and living. I have an eye condition in one eye, and if the other one goes, then all my dreams of travel and diving are for naught. Need to focus on what's really important. I'd hate to be blind in a really great house, and not be able to enjoy the view.
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pb4uski said:
....Knowing the right answer for you is one thing.... having the courage to act is a whole different kettle of fish. ...
Click to expand...

Just saying.
 
No matter when you retire, your income will by definition go down. That is why you w*rked and saved; at some point you have to decide when the income from w*rkng is just not needed, especially when you have the finances to support the retirement you can enjoy.
 
I feel ya. I hit my 'magic FI #' and had many of the same fears you had, but work was too good to just quit.

One thing you might consider is just changing your attitude at work so you are not so stressed out. This might subject you to getting to the front of the line for layoffs next time they come around. If you have been at your company a while - and it sounds like you have - there may be a nice separation package involved. So at that point, you don't have to make the jump; they kind of push you out.

For training, go rent the movie Office Space and try to become the Peter Gibbons character towards the end of the film;

Bob: We noticed you've been missing a lot of work Peter.
Peter Gibbons: Well I wouldn't really say I'm missing work Bob
Peter Gibbons: I wouldn't say I've been *missing* it, Bob.
 
HNL Bill said:
.........giving up years 53 and 54 to be able to buy a nice house and a sports car .........
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If someone gave me a sports car and a big house, I'll sell them so I can live like I do now. For me, those trinkets were a way of salving my job stress. Now they'd just be another thing to maintain.
 
So, much of the j*b stress comes from selling something that 99% of my company (aside from my direct management chain) views as a "necessary evil" and doesn't care one iota about as it's not our core business. Worse, we have a bunch of third-party partner companies (hundreds in fact) where it's just easier to have a partner sell what I sell than to have me (or people in my role) sell it. So, basically, every single person (all the way up to my CEO) would rather see my competition..err, "our partners"..succeed over people in my role - and they ACTIVELY do things every single day to help the partners succeed, like actually connecting my competition to customers I'm trying to sell to - which means people like me will fail. (Case in point, we had an "all hands" Sales call a short while back, and the EVP of Sales said the word "partner" about 30 times in the first 10 minutes. Didn't even mention my group. Great!)

On top of this, they expect us to drive very large sales numbers every single quarter (my own target is about 4X what the people that sell the main product have..go figure) - with absolutely no support..and basically the entire company aside from the people in my direct management chain actively working against us. Worse, it's a highly matrixed org that's probably the most political company I've ever worked for.

It's really messed up, but management believes building up a large partner ecosystem is how we'll grow the company. So, people like me are probably a necessary evil until they get to critical mass, then they'll jettison our whole area. In the meantime, sell millions per year "or else". And get constantly asked what your sales numbers for the quarter are going to be. Good fun (actually, it isn't. It's a living hell).
 
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Yup, “you need to hit this number”. Next year “oh, you have to run positive comps on last years number” ugg
 
RetireSoon said:
So, much of the j*b stress comes from selling something that 99% of my company (aside from my direct management chain) views as a "necessary evil" and doesn't care one iota about as it's not our core business. Worse, we have a bunch of third-party partner companies (hundreds in fact) where it's just easier to have a partner sell what I sell than to have me (or people in my role) sell it. So, basically, every single person (all the way up to my CEO) would rather see my competition..err, "our partners"..succeed over people in my role - and they ACTIVELY do things every single day to help the partners succeed, like actually connecting my competition to customers I'm trying to sell to - which means people like me will fail. (Case in point, we had an "all hands" Sales call a short while back, and the EVP of Sales said the word "partner" about 30 times in the first 10 minutes. Didn't even mention my group. Great!)

On top of this, they expect us to drive very large sales numbers every single quarter (my own target is about 4X what the people that sell the main product have..go figure) - with absolutely no support..and basically the entire company aside from the people in my direct management chain actively working against us. Worse, it's a highly matrixed org that's probably the most political company I've ever worked for.

It's really messed up, but management believes building up a large partner ecosystem is how we'll grow the company. So, people like me are probably a necessary evil until they get to critical mass, then they'll jettison our whole area. In the meantime, sell millions per year "or else". And get constantly asked what your sales numbers for the quarter are going to be. Good fun (actually, it isn't. It's a living hell).
Click to expand...

Think of retiring a ripping off a band-aid.... you gotta just grab it and pull hard and wince... but after that all is great.

There is more to life than money... from what you wrote since you can retire you are a bit crazy not to.
 
RetireSoon said:
So, much of the j*b stress comes from selling something that 99% of my company (aside from my direct management chain) views as a "necessary evil" and doesn't care one iota about as it's not our core business. Worse, we have a bunch of third-party partner companies (hundreds in fact) where it's just easier to have a partner sell what I sell than to have me (or people in my role) sell it. So, basically, every single person (all the way up to my CEO) would rather see my competition..err, "our partners"..succeed over people in my role - and they ACTIVELY do things every single day to help the partners succeed, like actually connecting my competition to customers I'm trying to sell to - which means people like me will fail. (Case in point, we had an "all hands" Sales call a short while back, and the EVP of Sales said the word "partner" about 30 times in the first 10 minutes. Didn't even mention my group. Great!)

On top of this, they expect us to drive very large sales numbers every single quarter (my own target is about 4X what the people that sell the main product have..go figure) - with absolutely no support..and basically the entire company aside from the people in my direct management chain actively working against us. Worse, it's a highly matrixed org that's probably the most political company I've ever worked for.

It's really messed up, but management believes building up a large partner ecosystem is how we'll grow the company. So, people like me are probably a necessary evil until they get to critical mass, then they'll jettison our whole area. In the meantime, sell millions per year "or else". And get constantly asked what your sales numbers for the quarter are going to be. Good fun (actually, it isn't. It's a living hell).
Click to expand...


On the job note, have you considered leaving (which it seems you can afford) and going to work for one of the partners?


On the mental readiness part, I have learned that it is tough to answer for anyone but yourself. In my opinion it is not unusual to not have convinced yourself 100% that you are ready. Even though I have made the decision, I am probably 98% convinced that I am ready. I look at the salary I am making, how much we are able to sack away, the level of comfort knowing that steady salary flow is there... and wonder if maybe, just maybe, it is worth putting up with things a bit longer. And this is for a job I mostly love! However, I began to look at this risk as other risks I have taken in the past, none of which was a sure thing... and nothing terrible happened. In fact, more often than not, even if things did not start off as well after taking the risk, something unexpected happened that made it all the more worthwhile. So the 2% uncertainty that is there just means that cannot assume I have everything covered, but I have enough covered to be able to deal with that 2% if it rears its ugly head.
 
bobandsherry said:
One thing you can't buy is time. If money is more important than that then stick with your job.

I walked away from sizeable comp as well, but had enough to not worry about it. Now about 2.5 since FIRE and enjoy myself. Already 8 weeks of travel this year and at least 3 more to go. Lots of day trips as well.

I don't dread Mondays any more, in fact I have to think what day of week it is now.

BTW, now is much different for you than 2008, it's now on your terms.
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My situation was somewhat similar to yours so I can relate. There's lots of good advice here so far, but I want to emphasize bobandsherry's comment: You can't get time (or your health) back.

I know this takes some serious mental adjustment - it sure did for me. But, I'm so glad I took the plunge and am enjoying retirement more and more every day.
 
You know, some of the biggest fears I faced in life were: getting married, having kids, changing jobs, taking on a mortgage, etc.

And it is NEVER the right time to: get married, have kids, change jobs and take on a mortgage, right?

Most likely, you will need to handle the retirement question the same way. Jump in.

If things change in the future: SS cuts, ACA changes, etc., cut expenses, take on a PT job, start a small business, etc. You will adapt. You did on the marriage, kids, job changes and mortgage, right?
 
Speaking for myself....it is a huge lifestyle change and it was very strange not to have the large, steady paycheck and all the great job perks. It took me awhile to get used to it, but now I find it hard to imagine the working me lifestyle. How did I do it all those years?
 
RetireSoon said:
So, much of the j*b stress comes from selling something that 99% of my company (aside from my direct management chain) views as a "necessary evil" and doesn't care one iota about as it's not our core business. Worse, we have a bunch of third-party partner companies (hundreds in fact) where it's just easier to have a partner sell what I sell than to have me (or people in my role) sell it. So, basically, every single person (all the way up to my CEO) would rather see my competition..err, "our partners"..succeed over people in my role - and they ACTIVELY do things every single day to help the partners succeed, like actually connecting my competition to customers I'm trying to sell to - which means people like me will fail. (Case in point, we had an "all hands" Sales call a short while back, and the EVP of Sales said the word "partner" about 30 times in the first 10 minutes. Didn't even mention my group. Great!)

On top of this, they expect us to drive very large sales numbers every single quarter (my own target is about 4X what the people that sell the main product have..go figure) - with absolutely no support..and basically the entire company aside from the people in my direct management chain actively working against us. Worse, it's a highly matrixed org that's probably the most political company I've ever worked for.

It's really messed up, but management believes building up a large partner ecosystem is how we'll grow the company. So, people like me are probably a necessary evil until they get to critical mass, then they'll jettison our whole area. In the meantime, sell millions per year "or else". And get constantly asked what your sales numbers for the quarter are going to be. Good fun (actually, it isn't. It's a living hell).
Click to expand...

Sounds like you could get a very nice departing bonus, if you suffer along. IE 100 weeks of unemployment or downsizing package...

It also sounds like they are asking you to funnel sales through your partners, so talk in terms of how much your helping your partners by shifting sales over to them. "But boss, I thought you wanted us to support our partners..."
 
Luck_Club said:
Sounds like you could get a very nice departing bonus, if you suffer along. IE 100 weeks of unemployment or downsizing package...

It also sounds like they are asking you to funnel sales through your partners, so talk in terms of how much your helping your partners by shifting sales over to them. "But boss, I thought you wanted us to support our partners..."
Click to expand...

Ha - wouldn't that be nice..unfortunately not the case from what I've heard.

On the 'funnel through partners' -it's a zero sum game..either we win, or the partner wins. If we win, that goes against "meeting our (quarterly and yearly) number". If the partner wins, we get ZERO against "our number". So, the partners are in every sense of the word my competition. Makes it especially fun when everyone else in the company is pushing for the partners to win (because they perceive they "need" them and they are often "cheaper" than the OEM, so it's seen by Sales and their management as easier to get THEIR deal done if the partner can do the other related work cheaper).

It truly is messed up beyond words..
 
jollystomper said:
On the job note, have you considered leaving (which it seems you can afford) and going to work for one of the partners?
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Yep..actually have talked with a couple of them. One wanted me to join pretty badly, but I just didn't like or get good vibes about the culture of their company (bunch of ex big-company guys and an "we eat our own young" culture). The other I really wanted to join, but talked w/the CEO and the conversation essentially went no-where. CEO wanted to pigeon-hole me in "Sales" which is the LAST place I want to be - and didn't have a need for any additional sales at the time (not that I would have wanted it even if available).

There are so many partners to pick from (literally hundreds). Just need to find the right one I guess, or call it a day and RE.
 
DH became Medicare eligible this month, although I'm several years away but decided early this year that August 31 would be my last day. It was a TOUGH decision. VERY tough. The drawdown after all these years of saving is terrifying to me.


Here are some things that pushed us over the edge:


1. We moved to an over-55 community in 2015 and watching all these garage doors go up and down all day as they head out for breakfast, or lunch, or shopping or vacation or a day trip has made us insanely jealous.


2. DH had a serious health issue ~10 years ago, and it's left him with some cognitive challenges. That's not going to get any better.


3. We ran every retirement calculator we can find, and all are 100%. Our fee-only advisor keeps asking us why we're still working.


4. It's frankly getting harder for me to learn all the new "stuff" thrown at me at work each day, and I just don't want to do it anymore. My new boss is much younger, way too enthusiastic, and is annoying. :)


5. I have retiree medical (as of today), so hoping that hangs on until 2022.


6. I'm tired. I want to sleep late any d*mned day of the week. I want to go wash my car at 10 a.m. on Tuesday. I want to ride my bike early in the morning before it gets hot, instead of being on a 7 a.m. conference call. You get the picture.


Good luck with your decision. Only you can make it, and whatever you decide, it will be right.
 
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