Mental 'readiness' for ER

[RockLife]

Take steps to get past the fear

+1 There are actions you can take that might make you feel more prepared.

Exactly this. You have to take steps to get over fear. This may include hiring a financial advisor. If you already have one, you either need to use him better or hire a new one. Maybe it's digging into more software tools like Otar, Kotlikoff, or many others. Maybe it's doing some reading on risk mitigation.

But we know this, only one thing is guaranteed, and that is death. And you don't know when it is, but if you're past 50 you know you're more than halfway there. What do you want to do with those remaining years, work?

Yes, I too have been affected by early deaths, my brother, stepbrother, best friend, wife's best friend. So I know this is real. Sorry to be blunt, but we're 1 year retired now and feel like we've won the lottery. We live in the Caribbean on less than $50K per year and love every. single. day. We're winning now. I encourage you to join the team.

 

[24601NoMore]

We live in the Caribbean on less than $50K per year and love every. single. day. We're winning now. I encourage you to join the team.

Wow - that sounds awesome. Congrats. Is that $50K WITH Healthcare coverage? If so - is it US or Caribbean hospitals and doctors?

 

[24601NoMore]

Thanks for all the replies. The BS factor at work kicked into high overdrive since my original post. It has totally jumped the shark at this point and what WAS already impossible has now accelerated into total lunacy.

Most days I want to absolutely scream. The stress is unbearable and I'm starting to show signs of extreme stress overload (like a new fun symptom of night tremors where different muscles randomly trigger soon as I lay down to go to bed..never had that in my life previously and I'm pretty sure it's a sign of total system overload).

The upcoming RSUs are several tens of thousands of dollars and I really do want to make it through that vest as we have a LOT of big house expenses (new roof, total resurfacing of our floors because we had a sink hose break and flood our kitchen a little over a year ago, so all the wood is rippled), etc. Just those two together are $20K+. Would rather use the RSUs for that than a big dip into the retirement kitty right at day one of ER.

The "bunny market" we are in now is also not helping. Seems like the early days of a bear and I don't see this market going ANYWHERE (best case) this year. More likely we'll end down 10-20%. As I get closer to ER, my tolerance for risk has dropped considerably and although I realize the inflation impact have started to shift increasingly into 2-3 year CDs just for capital preservation. We're still 25+% equities but it doesn't help to watch your portfolio drop every day when you're ALSO thinking about shutting off the W-2 income on a permanent basis.

$$ aside, every day is literally excruciating at this point and I've gone back and forth every single day about just bailing even before the vest. But I'm a pretty strong willed person and the last thing I want to do is feel like I'm "giving up" and throwing in the towel. I'm just not wired that way and have plowed through all sorts of things in the past. But it's way past unhealthy at this point also to keep at it. As the old saying goes, the definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result.

Going to talk to my family Dr. today and see what they say. Want to make sure this is not doing lasting damage to my health..the extra $$s could balance out on the other end when I'm 65+ with one or more fewer years of SS if I kick the bucket earlier than I would otherwise. So it's now starting to balance out financially. Quit earlier and possibly live longer. Same net $ with more years SS (assuming it's still paying then). Quit later and possibly die sooner. Really starting to come down to that at this point.

 

[RockLife]

Wow - that sounds awesome. Congrats. Is that $50K WITH Healthcare coverage? If so - is it US or Caribbean hospitals and doctors?

This is with health insurance, an international plan from Cigna. It's an old school, major medical plan with a high deductible, exactly what we wanted. The cost is 1/3 what it was in the states (for a bunch of coverage we didn't want to pay for, also high deductibles). Now we pay just over $400/mo. to cover us both. This was the final trigger that allowed us to ER, it's $10K/yr in cost savings.

But the actual health care is Puerto Rican style, not the same level as in the U.S. Then again, neither of us has needed a doctor in a year and a half. We're healthy and happy. If our health starts to fail we may consider moving back to the states.

 

[akidagain2018]

Like decisions on asset allocations, only you can decide if you've
saved enough to retire. But I found this to be life after work:

View attachment 28775

Hahaha.....! This is precisely how I see retirement. Love it!!

That being said, I'm in basically the same boat at the OP. The job is taking years off my life, but it's a lot of doe for not much work, public traspo commute of under 45 mins.

But I grew up, really if we're being honest, poor. I used to be ashamed of it, but now I feel the opposite. But I remember going without lots of stuff as a kid. I don't want to be poor again. And unless there's an apocalyptic event that causes me to lose half my assets, and they never recover, I'm totally fine. But emotionally I'm worried I'm going to have a panic attack once I've ER'd and it sets it, that my career, my safety net for decades, is gone as I know it. It's like a loss of a security blanket, which come to think of it, that actually happened to me as a kid once. Total panic attack. Argh, what to do? I'm hoping to pull the trigger here in July, maybe August if I'm still scared.

 

[24601NoMore]

But I grew up, really if we're being honest, poor. I used to be ashamed of it, but now I feel the opposite. But I remember going without lots of stuff as a kid. I don't want to be poor again.

Bingo! I think that's part of my fear also. Have 2 professional incomes today and save a ton plus can buy whatever we want (not that we buy that much). I truly don't even need to worry / think about money.

Just the thought of dropping to sub 4X FPL income to get ACA subsidies is terrifying. We "can" survive but it's going to be one hell of a lifestyle adjustment, not that we were ever that consumption-oriented to begin with. But the thought of NOTHING coming from W-2's is terrifying, as I need to fund 10+ years to SS and Medicare at this point until those come online..IF they come online.

Scary stuff for sure, especially with this whacky market. Another part of my fear is retiring into a bear that wipes out 20-50% of my nest egg (albeit, on paper). DW who's 60 has pointed out "we may not have enough time for it to come back" and she's absolutely right. The 2008-9 "recovery" was primarily the result of artificial (Fed) stimulus and those bullets have already been spent. The bag of tricks is going to be empty next time around, and if we DO have a big drop it may never get back to where it is today until we're long past gone. Part of the reason we are very much in cash and considerably lighter in equities. But even what we do have is very disconcerting to think about watching a 20-50% drop on.

 

[akidagain2018]

I think you need to have a plan, and then multiple back up plans. That's what I'm looking at. I have RE I could sell if I really ever run out of money, but that's not likely to happen. And I like keeping what I have cash and otherwise. But if there's a market or otherwise apocalyptic event, I've got value in various types of investments, including Real Estate. But yeah, a 25% drop in stocks within the next year would really bum me out. I'd go on one of my 'spending freezes'. Whenever I've felt tight on cash, like when pouring money into RE improvements, I go on these spending freezes where I watch every dollar, and don't buy anything that's not necessary. No new clothes, for example, except to replace worn out shoes, socks, or undies. Hah! It makes me feel more in control for a time. Then I let go of the purse strings a little eventually.

 

[trumpeting_angel]

Struggling myself

I’m about to turn 65, so retiring early is now beyond reach! I’ve moved to Vermont, cut back to w*rking 3-4 days/week, and with my partner bought a house for cash. The calculators tell me I have enough. But I want to have more than enough. And I KNOW the barrier is the switch between putting away as much as possible, to withdrawing. That just feels terrifying.

I like my work, but it’s certainly not stress-free. There’s so much demand and a waiting list for my services, so I’m working harder than I wanted. The new house is farther away, but I keep telling myself it’s only 3 days/week. (The other work is lucrative consulting, but there’s not an enormous amount of it available. And it’s not stress-free, either.)

My work is in demand up here, and I know I can pick up part time work easily, Even fewer days than I’m doing now. I love my free time - I spend it skiing, hiking, and gardening. There’s not enough of it. The tipping point might be my 6-week old granddaughter, who lives 4 hours away. I was there for a week when she was born, and it was heaven. Busy with moving and (probably) stress induced illness, I haven’t been back since. This is not okay!

The pain and distress that you speak of from work seems intolerable to me! I’m certain you are endangering your health. Retire when that next vested $$ comes along, and get a job at the supermarket if you can’t stand being retired! Or come to Vermont and work at a ski area. It’s not worth it; nobody should have to tolerate that stress, least of all someone who has the money to quit.

I just changed my asset allocation to a much more conservative position anticipating retiring sooner rather than later, and concerned about retiring on the cusp of a bull market.

I should listen to my advice to you! I think soon I will cut my hours. I can go to 2.5 days and still get benefits.

 

[Finance Dave]

Here are a few suggestions, take em or leave em....

1) If you are worried financially (seems you are based on some of your comments), here is what I did. a) Do your planning assuming you'll only get 75% of your SS payments...in other words I assume the gov't is going to start "means testing" and I'll take a cut b) Lay out any large expenses you might have in the next 1-2 years and quantify them. For us it was a new furnace, staining our privacy fence, remodeling my office, and getting our car paid off...then add those $$ to your savings goal...that will put your mind at ease that you can handle the coming expenses

2) Not sure if you're doing this...but a lot of people do...don't think your work/job can't survive without you...the company will go on just fine. Too many people have their identity created by their job

3) Reduce your stock exposure...when I was 40 I was 80% in stocks...no way anymore...I'm comfortable at 35% now (I'm 56)...and I sleep better at night when the market drops. If the financial advisor tells you that you need to have more than 35% in the market to stave off inflation...then ask him/her how much your nest egg needs to be so that 35% is enough...and work until you get there...that's what I did.

4) Do some "life planning". List your goals in retirement, and plan a calendar of what a typical day or week would look like. Sometimes it's the fear of the unknown...and once you plan it....it is no longer unknown.

5) Think of something NEW that you want to do or learn. Perhaps play guitar, maybe learn to be a photography buff, or study every President...whatever it is that excites you...that will give you something to look forward to.

Good luck!

 

[Conundrum]

Thanks for all the replies. The BS factor at work kicked into high overdrive since my original post. It has totally jumped the shark at this point and what WAS already impossible has now accelerated into total lunacy.

Most days I want to absolutely scream. The stress is unbearable and I'm starting to show signs of extreme stress overload (like a new fun symptom of night tremors where different muscles randomly trigger soon as I lay down to go to bed..never had that in my life previously and I'm pretty sure it's a sign of total system overload).

The upcoming RSUs are several tens of thousands of dollars and I really do want to make it through that vest as we have a LOT of big house expenses (new roof, total resurfacing of our floors because we had a sink hose break and flood our kitchen a little over a year ago, so all the wood is rippled), etc. Just those two together are $20K+. Would rather use the RSUs for that than a big dip into the retirement kitty right at day one of ER.

The "bunny market" we are in now is also not helping. Seems like the early days of a bear and I don't see this market going ANYWHERE (best case) this year. More likely we'll end down 10-20%. As I get closer to ER, my tolerance for risk has dropped considerably and although I realize the inflation impact have started to shift increasingly into 2-3 year CDs just for capital preservation. We're still 25+% equities but it doesn't help to watch your portfolio drop every day when you're ALSO thinking about shutting off the W-2 income on a permanent basis.

$$ aside, every day is literally excruciating at this point and I've gone back and forth every single day about just bailing even before the vest. But I'm a pretty strong willed person and the last thing I want to do is feel like I'm "giving up" and throwing in the towel. I'm just not wired that way and have plowed through all sorts of things in the past. But it's way past unhealthy at this point also to keep at it. As the old saying goes, the definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result.

Going to talk to my family Dr. today and see what they say. Want to make sure this is not doing lasting damage to my health..the extra $$s could balance out on the other end when I'm 65+ with one or more fewer years of SS if I kick the bucket earlier than I would otherwise. So it's now starting to balance out financially. Quit earlier and possibly live longer. Same net $ with more years SS (assuming it's still paying then). Quit later and possibly die sooner. Really starting to come down to that at this point.

You are wise in seeking input from the Family doc. You can only put your head down and push and then push thru harder in the workplace until you break. I know. “I broke” at age 50. I wanted to wait till 55to have complete freedom with my 401k. I really wanted to until my body said no and shut down. Fortunately I can get a good part of my health back now that I have the time to exercise, cook healthy meals and of course, the absence of a toxic workplace is huge. I still have time to get back into shape so when I hit 60s and beyond I can maintain my health instead of trying to dig out of a very deep hole.

 

[24601NoMore]

You are wise in seeking input from the Family doc. You can only put your head down and push and then push thru harder in the workplace until you break. I know. “I broke” at age 50. I wanted to wait till 55to have complete freedom with my 401k. I really wanted to until my body said no and shut down. Fortunately I can get a good part of my health back now that I have the time to exercise, cook healthy meals and of course, the absence of a toxic workplace is huge. I still have time to get back into shape so when I hit 60s and beyond I can maintain my health instead of trying to dig out of a very deep hole.

Good advice. I do work out daily but consume way too many adult beverages due to the stress - to the point I know it's unhealthy. Doc snuck a full blood test in when I thought she was just checking thyroid levels like they usually do. Only figured this out when the tech put the second tube on, then a third when they usually only take one. Guess she's concerned. Now I'm fearful of what they are going to find.

Less than two months to go, but I still can't wrap my head around turning off the W-2 spigot. Seems like I'm going down in defeat vs finding a way to work through it which frustrates me. I "can" retire. I just am not sure I "want" to retire, as crazy as that sounds. Guess I'm addicted to not having to worry about money, which is of course somewhat stupid in the grand scheme of things.

FWIW, I've been working (almost daily) on "the financial plan to end all financial plans" for years now. I have every expense, income stream, you name it mapped out year by year. It includes expected SS. HC costs. Lumpy spending. Yearly average spending. Where the income will come from. It has not been "vetted" by a pro or someone smarter than me, but I've looked at it 100 ways to Sunday and I don't see a way it fails. That said, it also means we have to drop to < 4X FPL on our income (primarily dividends) to not pay a gazillion dollars in HC premiums. I can pull from taxable to supplement that as 4X FPL is essentially our expenses before HC or travel. But still freaking me out even though it shouldn't.

 

[camfused]

RetireSoon, face it, you value money over your health. Big mistake, IMHO, especially in light of your last post, where you are saying you probably have "enough".

Walk (briskly) in this morning and tell them you are leaving. Quit, take a month off, and then go get a part-time job somewhere, one that has some benefits. This will give you a small income stream, with HC benefits, while you figure out what to do next.

As Nike would say, just do it!

 

[camfused]

One more thing, and I might be wrong about this, but I think ACA subsidy qualification is based on current income, and you have to keep that down to something like $50K/year. If that is not enough, then just park a bunch of cash in a money market before you quit, and use that to make up the shortages until you reach 65.

Folks, is that correct/allowed?

 

[UnrealizedPotential]

I think that it is $48,240 for the most one can have for income as a single individual to qualify for ACA. That is my understanding anyway, I could be wrong.

 

[mystang52]

RetireSoon, face it, you value money over your health. Big mistake, IMHO, especially in light of your last post, where you are saying you probably have "enough".....

Here are a few suggestions, take em or leave em....

1) If you are worried financially (seems you are based on some of your comments), here is what I did. a) Do your planning assuming you'll only get 75% of your SS payments...
b) Lay out any large expenses you might have in the next 1-2 years and quantify them. ...that will put your mind at ease that you can handle the coming expenses

2) Not sure if you're doing this...but a lot of people do...don't think your work/job can't survive without you...

3) Reduce your stock exposure...

4) Do some "life planning".
5) Think of something NEW that you want to do or learn.

Good advice. I do work out daily but consume way too many adult beverages due to the stress - to the point I know it's unhealthy.



In the interest of brevity I edited the above quotes. Great advice from the first 2........and your reply is, frankly, scary. Anecdotally, I have never known someone who admits to drinking in excess to accurately describe how much they actually consume. If your drinking is by your own admission unhealthy, then you need to make some serious life changes NOW. If you decide you absolutely must hang on until you vest, 1) seek immediate help regarding your drinking and 2) take a vacation, intermittent sick days, and intermittent Personal Days (if you have these as a benefit) to get you to the finish line. Then, whenever you do call it quits, make sure your drinking does not continue. If it does, get help for that or you likely wn't have a long retirement anyway. Sincere apologies in advance if you find my reply misplaced.

 

[24601NoMore]

One more thing, and I might be wrong about this, but I think ACA subsidy qualification is based on current income, and you have to keep that down to something like $50K/year. If that is not enough, then just park a bunch of cash in a money market before you quit, and use that to make up the shortages until you reach 65.

Folks, is that correct/allowed?

That's right. ACA subsidies are based on Federal Poverty Level (FPL), which for a family of 2 is ~$16K. You need to stay under 4X that (or $64K for two) to qualify, then your premium subsidy is calculated at the difference between the second cheapest silver plan and 9.5%'ish of your net income.

 

[24601NoMore]

Great advice from the first 2........and your reply is, frankly, scary.

Too much honesty and personal transparency I suppose, but I can't imagine there is "no-one" that has ever admitted that. There are plenty of people who struggle with the issue I mentioned. Millions, in fact including many famous celebrities who have pretty much admitted the same in similar ways.

Appreciate the concern though, and your point is well taken.

 

[ER Eddie]

My advice would be to take it slow, don't rush it. If you're not feeling mentally ready, don't push yourself.

One suggestion is to set a deadline for retiring -- like in 2 quarters (or 1 yr. or whatever). Start planning for it, gather more information to set your mind at ease. Set a goal for retiring in that amount of time. You can always move it back (or up) if you want to, but having the goal gives you a light at the end of the tunnel.

From the sound of it, I'd go in August, if I were you. No job is worth that. You might consider delaying until Dec., to give you the time you need to get mentally ready.

 

[trumpeting_angel]

You have enough to retire. Your job is killing you (not all that) slowly. You’ve worked over your financial plan obsessively, trying to find the fatal flaw. You’re drinking more than you should.

The advice to take a vacation was excellent. I would add, consider seeing a therapist. Your anxiety is severe, damaging, and crippling.

To those who have seen my posts about my anxiety, I’ll just add that, like you, I find this upcoming change frightening too. But I’m working about 3.5 days/week, doing work I enjoy most days, and I’m supported and valued at work. I have enough to retire by many measures, but I’m still working out what our expenses are going to be, since I just bought a house and moved to VT.

You are plowing your anxiety into an ever-more anxiety-provoking treadmill, and this doesn’t solve anything. Putting away more money is not going to reduce your anxiety. Find a healthier way to cope! Get a different job, if you simply can’t quit. You’ll be so much the better for getting out of this mess.

 

[Unpaintedhuffhines]

Man, you sound like me, sort of. Have plenty of $, but those RSU siren songs are tough to ignore, AND I get more every year.

You have the same golden handcuffs that I do - RSUs. For me, every quarter, with some quarters bigger. And it's tough, but one thing to think about: at some point you are going to leave. That could be a month, and it could be 10 years, and when you do, you are going to leave a lot of money on the table. If you're like me, you get new ones every year that vest over 4 or 5 years.

Main reason I'm going to stay for another year or two is I absolutely love the people I work with, and knowing that I can leave tomorrow if I want takes a lot of the stress off. if the BS meter gets above about midpoint, I'll give 3-4 months notice and enjoy retirement. But to be sure, when I pull the ripcord, it's for good. No more normal employment for me (maybe I'll write a book!)

Good luck!

 

[Perryinva]

This thread is killing me. I love the input from everyone here. I have none of the bad reasons to drive me from my career or any of the healthcare costs or issues either. We are not young, DW is 65 and retired at 57, and already claiming SS. We have two pensions and no debt besides voluntary mortgage, my SS has had 35 + maxed years for years now. I like my job, and coworkers, no stress, well paid. Flexible time and no demands. Turned 60 this year and was planning for 62.. for no real reason except also grew up lower income class, which morphed in to upper mid class with debt leveraging which worked thanks to real estate values. But never anyone with real income in our family until me. Brother used to make a lot more, got laid off, lived WAYM (well above) and is broke now and will have to work forever at 1/3 what he was used to. Mother died at 69. WTF am I doing still working??

It’s just plain greed; don’t want to leave all that easy money there. Every year I work adds $4500/yr to pension and is almost a 150k differential in NW. . The difference that comes in and adds to the stash and equity vs the having to withdraw to do the same minus pension. I have got to get my head straight! Thank you all!

 

[Oz investor]

Perryinva

one of the members here

has an apt quote ( imo ) from Mike Tyson in the signature

now that punch in the face could be many things , a market down turn , a personal financial or health issue .

you are probably more than half ready , that is better than most in the outside world

so when that punch comes don't forget to look for a silver lining ( like less income = less taxes )

 

[trumpeting_angel]

Media are scaring people?

This guy at Forbes thinks so.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrew...ement-saving-really-is-terrible/#3831799ada2e

 

[camfused]

Perryinva,

<getonsoapbox>
You need to read more stories here about people who have friends or relatives that worked another year or two, to make just a bit more for retirement, got sick and died, and ended up not being able to enjoy any of that money. IMHO, you work until you are FI, then you get the heck out. Money is/should be an enabler (nothing more). Let money work for you, and stop working for it.

Quit work, redefine your life, and enjoy life to the max, while you are still young enough to enjoy it.
</getonsoapbox>

 

[Carpediem]

Perryinva,

<getonsoapbox>
You need to read more stories here about people who have friends or relatives that worked another year or two, to make just a bit more for retirement, got sick and died, and ended up not being able to enjoy any of that money. IMHO, you work until you are FI, then you get the heck out. Money is/should be an enabler (nothing more). Let money work for you, and stop working for it.

Quit work, redefine your life, and enjoy life to the max, while you are still young enough to enjoy it.
</getonsoapbox>

They just moved one of my best child hood friends to hospice yesterday. They have stopped all meds except morphine. He was diagnosed with a rare form of leukemia in January of this year. He turned 59 that same month. He is married and has 5 children, the youngest is 10. He will never experience retirement.

Hopefully this will never happen to any of us here but please don't wait too long if you're FI.