Most efficient way to buy/own physical gold and metals?

[Gumby]

My guess is that gold might help in a scenario where the world remains functioning, but this country, for whatever reason, becomes a place you don't want to live. Sort of like those fleeing Germany in the 1930s; if they had gold, they could get out and go somewhere safer. In a true Mad Max scenario, I think beans and bullets (and a community) would prove to be a lot more valuable than gold.

 

[brewer12345]

I may be slow, but if the objective is to have gold when SHTF, how are ETF shares or gold held in vaults in Switzerland going to help with that?

My other little puzzle is this: Virtually none of us live in houses that are in any way defensible. Again in the SHTF scenario, I think it's more likely that we quickly end up dead and robbed than it is that we end up in a world where we are able to trade assets safely.

I have a few thousand rounds in my basement, left over from target-shooting days, but I have never thought of it as much of an asset. I even have a collector grade black rifle. But with three outside doors to the house and all of the main/only floor visible from one window or another, my defensive battle would not last very long.

Well, you do you. Good luck.

Physical gold is a good way to hedge a disaster scenario. Gold ETFs are a way to hedge other scenarios, such as stagflation, rampant money printing to prop up zombie companies, a decline in the value of the US dollar, the world's pre-eminent superpower sliding into banana republic territory amid rampant corruption and an inability to stop rioters and looters from destroying its urban centers. Any of those scenarios ring a bell? Maybe we live in different worlds.

 

[Spock]

I may be slow, but if the objective is to have gold when SHTF, how are ETF shares or gold held in vaults in Switzerland going to help with that?

My other little puzzle is this: Virtually none of us live in houses that are in any way defensible. Again in the SHTF scenario, I think it's more likely that we quickly end up dead and robbed than it is that we end up in a world where we are able to trade assets safely.

I have a few thousand rounds in my basement, left over from target-shooting days, but I have never thought of it as much of an asset. I even have a collector grade black rifle. But with three outside doors to the house and all of the main/only floor visible from one window or another, my defensive battle would not last very long.

Switzerland: It all depends on where the promised land is. But assuming is Switzerland, an oz or two in hand to get you on the plane and then a cache from a Swiss vault once you get there that you don't have to carry through capital controlled exit ports...
Its about spreading risks across geographies. I'd go in a shipping container if I had to... (until now) people are desperate enough to come here that way...

SHTF: Everything is a matter of degrees.
Just racking the slide on a 12ga pump will likely scare off a hood-rat.
Firing the 12ga will likely drive off 3ish hood-rats.
30 military trained armed mercs organized by Negan off of the walking dead?? yeah I'm probably toast. (I dont watch the show so I might have the pop culture reference wrong).
But I do keep a fire extinguisher around the house to take care of the small stuff even though it would be no match for an attic fire.

 

[Car-Guy]

I've bought and sold lots of gold coins, usually 1oz Krugerrands (KRands) and American Eagles (AGE). (both 22k gold) and sometimes Canadian Maples Leafs. (24k gold)

Very easy to buy and sell at most coins shows. There are usually several dealers dealing in PM's at each show. Check with different dealers since some will trade at bullion spreads and some try to get some numismatic value. IMO, there is no sense in paying any premium for modern gold regardless of grading.

There are some counterfeits floating around so if you are buying coins, buy from a well known/reputable dealer. Using a small digital scale and learn how to weigh the coins. A magnet is also useful in reducing the risk of buying a counterfeit. There are other test such as density and acid test but I've never used them myself. If you are buying certified coins (in a slab) be aware there are fake certified coins too. (both the coin and slab). Bottom line, learn to spots fakes, it's not that hard to learn.

Oh, I've learn to stay away from 24k gold coins, like Canadian Maple Leafs unless you are a "collector". They are very pretty to look at but they scratch far too easily. KRands and AGE are 22k and can be handled without any significant risks of damage. (unless you are a total klutz)

 

[Spock]

On a slightly tangential thread: I've been trying to accumulate 50 coins minted in the year in which we got married (pre-AGE, so its more of a challenge... leaves only Maples and Krugs) with the goal of presenting them to my wife on our 50 year/Golden Anniversary.
I've got a way's to go... and now everybody wants to charge extra for them whereas before dealers just let me sort through for specific dates.

 

[Car-Guy]

On a slightly tangential thread: I've been trying to accumulate 50 coins minted in the year in which we got married (pre-AGE, so its more of a challenge... leaves only Maples and Krugs) with the goal of presenting them to my wife on our 50 year/Golden Anniversary.
I've got a way's to go... and now everybody wants to charge extra for them whereas before dealers just let me sort through for specific dates.

So that would indicate that you got married sometime between 1979 and 1985.

 

[Winemaker]

My research 1978-1985 showed that best way to profit from a gold boom is to buy shares in gold mining companies. Owning physical gold is challenging; the possibility of fakes, impurities, shaving, personal storage, public storage, loss prevention, assay costs, commissions and liquidity. However, I have seriously considered buying a few bars, ingots for WTSHTF! But I am reminded when as a mere mining engineering graduate that bought a gold mutual fund( United Services Gold Fund) in 1979 and profited most handsomely without risking the above challenges. I own shares in Barrick GOLD(a sole gold miner), Freeport FCX (diversified gold miner), and Turquoise Hill TRQ (speculative wager on the best gold/silver/copper deposit with serious political issues), but no longer the mutual fund. Gold investing is a very big PITA, no matter how you do it.

 

[Poopycat]

My dad was an astute investor, but he made a huge mistake not long before his death when he bought gold coins through that company Glenn Beck was hawking. I think it’s Goldline? I inherited the coins, they are sitting in a safe deposit box in another state, and I fear that they are worth practically nothing. I have no idea how to cash them in, and I don’t even think they would be worth much anyway. Goldline was sued in 2011, wish I’d been paying attention then, because it was some sort of class action lawsuit. Goldline will apparently buy back the coins, but I’m guessing it would be for pennies on the dollar.

My point: make sure you go through a very reputable source if you do buy gold.

 

[corn18]

I ordered 100oz of Gold Eagles last year from Apmex. After I submitted the order, I started thinking about where to put it. I know, a little backwards. Couldn't figure out where to put $160k of gold in my house, so I looked for a safe deposit box. None available. Bury it in the yard? At that point, I felt I needed to do some more research and cox the order.

I have no interest in gold at it's current price. I am stockpiling guns and ammo right now.

 

[Sunset]

If things get really really bad, we go down to the bottom of the "needs" triangle to food, water, warmth, rest, and safety needs (security, safety). ....

I put gold (and silver) AFTER having a good supply of food, a way of providing warmth in the winter, a source of clean water (or way to produce it), and a way to protect oneself.

I would add alcohol in that list, as a valued thing that stores well.

When my Uncle died at age 96, it turned out he had 1 year supply of freeze dried food in the basement. He had lived though various bad times (Depression, WWI, WWII, etc) which (IMHO) had been a learning experience.

 

[OldShooter]

... Physical gold is a good way to hedge a disaster scenario. Gold ETFs are a way to hedge other scenarios, such as stagflation, rampant money printing to prop up zombie companies, a decline in the value of the US dollar, the world's pre-eminent superpower sliding into banana republic territory amid rampant corruption and an inability to stop rioters and looters from destroying its urban centers. Any of those scenarios ring a bell? ...

In the sense of being something worth worrying about? No, except for a decline in the dollar/a near certainty IMO. Possible? Maybe. There are lots of possible things not worth worrying about.

Actually, I think having well over a third of our total assets invested in non-US equities plus another 20% +/- in TIPS is probably pretty decent insurance overall, including for your scenarios. How well do you think your planned 1% gold stake will work as insurance?

 

[brewer12345]

In the sense of being something worth worrying about? No, except for a decline in the dollar/a near certainty IMO. Possible? Maybe. There are lots of possible things not worth worrying about.

Actually, I think having well over a third of our total assets invested in non-US equities plus another 20% +/- in TIPS is probably pretty decent insurance overall, including for your scenarios. How well do you think your planned 1% gold stake will work as insurance?

1% for me is generally a toe in the water that may be the prelude to a larger position.

Like I said, you do you. Good luck.

 

[aja8888]

Actually, I think having well over a third of our total assets invested in non-US equities plus another 20% +/- in TIPS is probably pretty decent insurance overall, including for your scenarios.

These are just digits on a computer monitor, right? Good luck cashing those in during a panic.

 

[corn18]

These are just digits on a computer monitor, right? Good luck cashing those in during a panic.

Yup, it'll be much easier to sell gold. Good luck cashing that in during a panic.

 

[Lakewood90712]

Gold Crowns ? Would be like pulling teeth to cash them in ( Rimshot )

 

[Ed B]

I am thinking about dipping my toe into (probably) silver by buying one or two hundred $$$ worth each month.

I checked out some websites this afternoon based on info in this thread. The premium on most of the coins was steep. Some vendors were charging 50% over spot or more. One site had a couple of choices with a couple of more reasonable premiums, but even on that site anything with an interesting design was 50% over spot.

Over course the price of silver and gold are very high right now. So if I do this some dollar cost averaging should help.

I had a decent stash of various silver coins from my teens until my first grandson turned about 3. I gave the coins to my DD and SIL and told them to sell the coins and we would start a savings for the boy. As luck would have it they left the coins in the piggy bank in the console of their car overnight. Someone picked that night to break into the car and steel stuff including the coins. Live and learn I guess.

 

[stephenson]

I’ve been stockpiling books for when SHTF.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

While some others might say "Why are you wasting your time", I actually appreciate these threads. While I am aware of the value of alcohol and physical books as backup, having them mentioned here again is a good point. I'm actually pretty good at making alcohol although I've never tried to make anything with a still (which is illegal). But I have fermented plenty of other things. On the physical book front, things like "Fundamentals of Nursing" and a "Physicians Desk Reference" are good to have on hand.

Another for now easily acquired good thing to have: Honey. Natural sweetener, has anti-oxidants, antibacterial, can be used as a food preservative as well as a topical medicinal remedy, and can last just about forever if stored properly.

Any thoughts out there regarding the Combibar I mentioned previously?

Note: I don't want to get into a debate regarding Peter Schiff or gold in general, rather just the pro's/con's of this approach to holding physical.

 

[Spock]

I'm not a fan of the combibar... not sure why other than I dunno if I would trust a chunk after it was broke off...
Now a new contender that I just found yesterday are the Maplegrams... 1 gram Canadian Maple Leafs in a sheet of 25 with each gram in an assay. I haven't priced them against combibars.
Prior to that I had Mexican Dos Pesos at just a hair under 1.5grams each. Little buggers are easy to lose.

 

[pjigar]

Another for now easily acquired good thing to have: Honey. Natural sweetener, has anti-oxidants, antibacterial, can be used as a food preservative as well as a topical medicinal remedy, and can last just about forever if stored properly.

Correct! I have couple of dozen honeybee colonies so we have plenty of honey almost all the time. I joke with DW with we can literally bathe in honey if we can't sell it all.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

I'm not a fan of the combibar... not sure why other than I dunno if I would trust a chunk after it was broke off...
Now a new contender that I just found yesterday are the Maplegrams... 1 gram Canadian Maple Leafs in a sheet of 25 with each gram in an assay. I haven't priced them against combibars.
Prior to that I had Mexican Dos Pesos at just a hair under 1.5grams each. Little buggers are easy to lose.

The Maplegrams look nice and I would like some, but at least as of now seem to command a high premium. For example, looking at Apmex quanity 20+ pricing of $79.28 @ 0.0322 oz = 2306.83 per ounce. Ouch. I

One thing about the Combibar I read is that there is a bit more gold than 100 grams per bar (e.g. .5 gram) to help to ensure each chunk will be 1 gram. I'd imagine part of using them would sometimes entail actually weighing the piece.

 

[kevink]

Getting back to the OP's question as well as numerous posts since then about storing physical gold, it's important to understand just how risky safety deposit boxes are:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/business/safe-deposit-box-theft.html

All of which is by way of saying that IMHO gold is "SHTF' insurance not in a literal sense (because there's really no such thing) but as an asset whose performance is truly uncorrelated with the stock and bond markets and which tends to do well in times of currency debasement, sociopolitical upheaval and flights to safety. And 1% isn't going to do it, but 10-20% (taken from the equity side) will:

https://portfoliocharts.com/2019/08/20/the-top-4-portfolios-to-recession-proof-your-investments/

 

[sengsational]

If the bank with your safe deposit box has your contact info, all the problems in the NYT article vanish. Or if not completely vanish, then chances are 100 times more likely you'll get struck by lightning than have a problem with your safe deposit box items. Ok, I didn't do the math on that one, but I bet it's close.



As to addressing the need for smaller denominations, I looked at junk silver a while back, but couldn't get past the premium over spot, so didn't go that route. Still have a few pre-65 coins, though, from my childhood coin hobby.

 

[brewer12345]

Getting back to the OP's question as well as numerous posts since then about storing physical gold, it's important to understand just how risky safety deposit boxes are:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/business/safe-deposit-box-theft.html

All of which is by way of saying that IMHO gold is "SHTF' insurance not in a literal sense (because there's really no such thing) but as an asset whose performance is truly uncorrelated with the stock and bond markets and which tends to do well in times of currency debasement, sociopolitical upheaval and flights to safety. And 1% isn't going to do it, but 10-20% (taken from the equity side) will:

https://portfoliocharts.com/2019/08/20/the-top-4-portfolios-to-recession-proof-your-investments/

Yes, I know 1 percent is bupkis. That is just meant to be what I would hold in physical metal. A larger position will take time and ideally be bought on dips.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

Yes, I know 1 percent is bupkis. That is just meant to be what I would hold in physical metal. A larger position will take time and ideally be bought on dips.

I have about one year of current expenses worth of PM's (both in paper form e.g. GLD, PSLV, IAU) and physical (mostly gold in terms of $ value but also some silver). About half of this was bought years ago at lower prices. Wish I had more but also concerned about buying in at high levels. I *think* these will go considerably higher, but that doesn't make it so.