The gratification such personalities derive from the attention their method of posting receives. They enjoy pushing buttons and watching the results. It doesn't exactly create a beneficial learning environment for forum members.Now I'm wondering what would he gain from making a statement like that on multiple websites.
The OP is also long gone from here.
Call me conservative, but I think the bigger risk is that your return will be <5%.Statistically, "most" people DO start collecting social security before their full retirement age:
https://www.fool.com/retirement/gen...the-average-american-start-collecting-so.aspx
That said, I'm only estimating a 5% return on my IRA. If it performs better over the next six years we'll have a larger balance that may allow us to delay SS for a year or two. If not, we'll start SS at 62.
Yes, but taking it at what age gets you the most back?my theory is take it as soon as possible .ill never get back the $226,000 me and my employer paid in
Now I'm wondering what would he gain from making a statement like that on multiple websites. It's not like he's saying 'hey everyone go buy AMZN or KO or XYZ'?
Agree. I never figure out what I was "forced" to pay in but it was the max amount for the last 20 years of my working life. When I was ~50 I can remember saying to myself that I'd never see a dime from SS. So when I turned 62, I happily took it immediately. I sincerely hope they can save SS without reductions or means testing or something else to cut benefits we paid for but I don't know how long that will be possible.my theory is take it as soon as possible .ill never get back the $226,000 me and my employer paid in
Estimated taxes paid for Social Security:
You paid: $xxx,xxx
Your employers paid: $xxx,xxx
Estimated taxes paid for Medicare:
You paid: $xx,xxx
Your employers paid: $xx,xxx
If you open an account at SS, you can see a line by line summary of every dime you earned, and every dime you and your employer contributed to Social Security.......... I never figure out what I was "forced" to pay in but it was the max amount for the last 20 years of my working life. .............
You forgot the amount would be much larger if it was invested in the stock market.What you paid in is disclosed on your annual SSA statement:
If I take the total that I and my employers paid in and divide it by my monthly benefit at my FRA, I get 102 months or ~8 1/2 years.
......... or less if you invested poorly. Enron anyone?You forgot the amount would be much larger if it was invested in the stock market.
If I take the total that I and my employers paid in and divide it by my monthly benefit at my FRA, I get 102 months or ~8 1/2 years.
Enron is a straw man argument. Really, why not think about the garden variety index fund.......... or less if you invested poorly. Enron anyone?
You forgot the amount would be much larger if it was invested in the stock market.
You did forget to mention in your original post, intentionally or not, I don't know. But from reading that post it was not clear. While all of those survivor benefits and disability could still be there, but SS could still have individual account invest up to 50% in index fund. The rest could be a floor like the lower income floor. There are many ways to skin the cat. It's also preposterous of you to think there is only one way. I still think we would have come out ahead, had SS not invested all in bonds. Isn't that why we have some of our retirement money in stocks.Given that I just stated some facts and intentionally didn't opine on whether it was good or bad, it is a bit presumptuous of you to suggest that I "forgot" something!
What you forgot, is that a portion of those contributions provide disability insurance and survivor insurance benefits in addition to retirement benefits... if you are going to insist on including market return then you likewise have to carve out of the contributions the value of disability and survivor insurance to get to just retirement benefit contributions. IIRC that is about a 20% carveout.
If I compute the value of a joint life SPIA with the same benefit as my SS at my FRA the value is about $540k... however, that is a fixed annuity and SS is a COLAed annuity... so increase that $540k by 50%... to $810k. 80% of my and my employers contributions is ~$210k... so the value of my retirement benefits is ~385% of what I contributed.
I don't think that is too bad. And the "return' would be even better for lower income people because their benefits as a percent of what they contribute is much higher.
Edited To Add: I was curious... if I take my annual contributions and my employers at 80% (assuming 20% relates to disability and survivor insurance) and compound it at 5.75%, I get ~$810k... not a bad return and as mentioned it would be even better for lower income people because of the way benefits are designed.
I find it fascinating that we have people who believe the OP is the same person as "ForcedToRetire" based on the language style they were using. We must have some very smart investigative minds on this forum to be able to draw that conclusion.
The slack variable (to use an old OR term) is the "middle class lifestyle"
Just to be clear, SS did not "invest all in bonds". The great majority of the payroll tax dollars paid into SS were also paid out in the same year they came in.You did forget to mention in your original post, intentionally or not, I don't know. But from reading that post it was not clear. While all of those survivor benefits and disability could still be there, but SS could still have individual account invest up to 50% in index fund. The rest could be a floor like the lower income floor. There are many ways to skin the cat. It's also preposterous of you to think there is only one way. I still think we would have come out ahead, had SS not invested all in bonds. Isn't that why we have some of our retirement money in stocks.
Policy Basics: Understanding the Social Security Trust Funds | Center on Budget and Policy PrioritiesJust to be clear, SS did not "invest all in bonds". The great majority of the payroll tax dollars paid into SS were also paid out in the same year they came in.
We can do the math as say "If I could have invested my payroll taxes at __% (or at actual equity index funds returns) I would have had ___ more or less than my SS benefit."
But, in fact, if SS had done that, it wouldn't have paid the benefits that my parents and grandparents got when I was working. I would have dug into my pocket to send them monthly checks, or (if my parents had been the unusual people who saved enough to cover all of their own retirement) inherited less.
The SS "Trust Fund" has never been close to big enough to look like the assets of a fully funded private pension plan.
You can see a complete historical list of taxes and benefits on page 158 here:
https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TR/2016/tr2016.pdf
I think you are correct, I've just never looked. Will check it out the next time I log on.If you open an account at SS, you can see a line by line summary of every dime you earned, and every dime you and your employer contributed to Social Security.