Need Advice on Personal loan

waynezo

Recycles dryer sheets
Joined
Nov 17, 2016
Messages
61
Location
Margate
I am 60 and live off of a portfolio with TRowe Price. Mostly a Roth in Media and Telecom to keep my AGI low to maximize ACA healthcare subsidies. That account is down 30% this year. I expect it to go back up and I don't want withdraw funds when they are down. TRowe does not lend money against the portfolio and I don't carry Homeowners insurance so home equity loan is not an option. Chase Visa has offered me a personal loan. I wonder if there are any better options. I would like to borrow 40,000 for Dental Implants and a new roof. I am debt free as of now. Will any other company lend money using my portfolio as collateral.

Any advice or opinion is appreciated.
 
There is a lot in there and hard to answer without knowing some of the picture.

How much is 40K relative to the value of the house & portfolio?

A portfolio down 30% seems like its underperforming in an already down year. Are you sufficiently diversified enough?

Also...I'm curious...why no homeowners insurance? A HELOC would seem to make the most sense here. Maybe get insurance so you can qualify for an equity line?

If TRowe won't do a loan securitized off the assets, I'm doubtful anyone else will.

What are the terms on the personal loan?
 
Well, here's an instance where the "I self-insure" folks lose.

I would contend that considering what you've presented, you aren't even in a reasonable position financially to not have homeowners insurance.

Why do you not have homeowners insurance? Clearly if you are unable to come up with $40,000 to meet this expense, there's no way that you're going to be able to afford rebuilding a home in the event of a total loss.

As far as the problem you have coming up with the $40,000, you might consider financing them in other ways.

1. Go with a roofer that has a deal with a bank that will finance it. When we had our roof replaced 2.5 years ago, the company had 12-month interest free financing through Wells Fargo. We did that even though we didn't need to.

2. For the implants, work with the dentist. They may be able to give you a payment plan for 12 or 24 months. Alternatively, don't do all the implants at once. Do it in multiple sessions, over 12 or 24 months spreading out the work and payments.

Part of living off a portfolio is taking bigger payments when you need to. You cannot let the market drive how you pay for expenses. What you are doing by not taking the money from the TRP portfolio, wanting to wait for it to rebound is a form of market timing. What if it continues lower?
 
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It is possible to get a HLOC after retiring (early) even without a first mortgage, but it’s takes some planning. He used one to cash flow a major renovation.

The bank we used did seem to want “income”, so we used the last few years of ROTH conversions for that. We had to show them our income tax returns to prove this, but they accepted it.

I would think generally you need some strategy for coming up with “cash” going forward if you are sometimes unwilling to sell assets when you need cash.

Setting up a HLOC is one approach - even though it’s dependent on the good graces of a bank to keep it open when you need it. Another approach is to keep a health cash reserve at all times.

Another approach is to designate some of your assets as salable at all time and get over the hesitation of not wanting to sell them sometimes. Just accept that you may well sell them when needed. There are other approaches too.

Things come up from time to time, you need a strategy to deal with it.
 
Prime example of return sequence risk and I post this for others not the OP. Markets down, need funds, little in the way of options. Stable, liquid, income generating investments should be part of a retirees portfolio.
As for the OP, buy homeowners insurance and take out a HELOC.
 
You say TRowe wont lend against your assets, but isn’t it IRS mandate that IRA assets cannot be used as security?

I’m also curious why no homeowners coverage. Is that common among free and clear homeowners?

When I had expensive dental work done they had pretty good financing available. Reasonable terms and much better than putting off needed work.
 
I’m also curious why no homeowners coverage. Is that common among free and clear homeowners?

Not in Florida, which is the OP's profile. I don't really have any answer for the OP other than... best credit card, shop for good rates, finance the projects.

Stuff like this is why we secured a heloc and credit card increases before retiring, keep a few years in cash.
 
Thanks to all who replied.
Home is 440k free and clear.
Insurance in Fla is ridiculously high.
Portfolio is 900k
45% Trad IRA SnP 500 index
15% Roth IRA Comm & Technology
17% Mid Cap Value Taxable personal
23% Comm & Technology Taxable personal

Financing with the roofer sounds good.
I think Chase offered me 9% on 25K (I need to check)

I am thinking if the market rebounds all I have lost is the interest.
 
I am 60 and live off of a portfolio with TRowe Price. Mostly a Roth in Media and Telecom to keep my AGI low to maximize ACA healthcare subsidies. That account is down 30% this year. I expect it to go back up and I don't want withdraw funds when they are down. ...
Wise to want to wait it out. Not wise to be so concentrated in two narrow and volatile sectors. I would suggest that you immediately diversify into total market funds. You will sell when your investments are down, possibly getting some tax loss harvesting, then buy investments that are also down. So it will be close to a wash.

... I would like to borrow 40,000 for Dental Implants and a new roof. ...
Are these "wants" or "needs?" You be the judge on the roof, but I'll bet that your dentist is the driving force in your getting those implants.

First, get a second and third opinion on the implants while also gathering prices. Most dentists are basically commissioned salespeople who really believe in their products. It's hard to measure your "need" against the dentist's "want." Economists call this an "agency problem."

Second, see if you have access to a university dental school clinic/within feasible driving range. I get all my dental work at such a clinic, primarily because I know they will never be motivated to sell me something I don't need and secondarily because there is excellent quality control -- which does not exist in most dental offices. A third benefit is very low prices, as low as 1/3 what the local independent dentists charge. Things where they have to use commercial labs like crowns and implants will be more than 1/3 but still much cheaper.

DW recently switched to the dental school when her dentist was pressing her to buy a crown. First visit, the professor and the student examined her and huddled, determining fairly quickly that no crown was necessary.

Hard to believe that Visa offers the best terms. Have you tried your bank, local credit unions, etc.? Shop. Shop. Shop.
 
Thanks to all who replied.
Home is 440k free and clear.
Insurance in Fla is ridiculously high.
Portfolio is 900k
45% Trad IRA SnP 500 index
15% Roth IRA Comm & Technology
17% Mid Cap Value Taxable personal
23% Comm & Technology Taxable personal

Financing with the roofer sounds good.
I think Chase offered me 9% on 25K (I need to check)

I am thinking if the market rebounds all I have lost is the interest.

You might consider becoming a member of PenFed credit union. They have personal loans as low as 5.49%.
 
I am 60 and live off of a portfolio with TRowe Price. Mostly a Roth in Media and Telecom to keep my AGI low to maximize ACA healthcare subsidies. That account is down 30% this year. I expect it to go back up and I don't want withdraw funds when they are down. TRowe does not lend money against the portfolio and I don't carry Homeowners insurance so home equity loan is not an option. Chase Visa has offered me a personal loan. I wonder if there are any better options. I would like to borrow 40,000 for Dental Implants and a new roof. I am debt free as of now. Will any other company lend money using my portfolio as collateral.

Any advice or opinion is appreciated.

Do you have dental insurance? Even if they only pay a portion of the implant, you get contract rates instead of rack rates. My Delta Dental plan through the VA covered about half of my $2300 implant cost. It's possible you will have to have the insurance for a year to qualify for implant coverage so get started now if you think it might make sense for you.
 
Wise to want to wait it out. Not wise to be so concentrated in two narrow and volatile sectors. I would suggest that you immediately diversify into total market funds. You will sell when your investments are down, possibly getting some tax loss harvesting, then buy investments that are also down. So it will be close to a wash.

Are these "wants" or "needs?" You be the judge on the roof, but I'll bet that your dentist is the driving force in your getting those implants.

First, get a second and third opinion on the implants while also gathering prices. Most dentists are basically commissioned salespeople who really believe in their products. It's hard to measure your "need" against the dentist's "want." Economists call this an "agency problem."

Second, see if you have access to a university dental school clinic/within feasible driving range. I get all my dental work at such a clinic, primarily because I know they will never be motivated to sell me something I don't need and secondarily because there is excellent quality control -- which does not exist in most dental offices. A third benefit is very low prices, as low as 1/3 what the local independent dentists charge. Things where they have to use commercial labs like crowns and implants will be more than 1/3 but still much cheaper.

DW recently switched to the dental school when her dentist was pressing her to buy a crown. First visit, the professor and the student examined her and huddled, determining fairly quickly that no crown was necessary.

Hard to believe that Visa offers the best terms. Have you tried your bank, local credit unions, etc.? Shop. Shop. Shop.

+1 on all of this.

Actually +100 on the dentist thinking. I have a rule that I don't take any action on a dental recommendation unless there is pain or they have brought it up across at least four visits. I've lost count of the number of things that "we should take care of" that don't seem to come up on visit 3 or 4 and many years later still aren't a problem.
 
Thanks to all who replied.

Home is 440k free and clear.

Insurance in Fla is ridiculously high.

Portfolio is 900k

45% Trad IRA SnP 500 index

15% Roth IRA Comm & Technology

17% Mid Cap Value Taxable personal

23% Comm & Technology Taxable personal



Financing with the roofer sounds good.

I think Chase offered me 9% on 25K (I need to check)



I am thinking if the market rebounds all I have lost is the interest.



I’m puzzled. How high is the insurance that you are willing to risk a 440k home total loss?
 
Does home owners insurance always pay for a new roof? Because I've always paid for it myself out of pocket.
 
Does home owners insurance always pay for a new roof? Because I've always paid for it myself out of pocket.

The OP needs homeowners insurance to secure a home equity loan.
 
Thanks to all who replied.
Home is 440k free and clear.
Insurance in Fla is ridiculously high.
Portfolio is 900k
45% Trad IRA SnP 500 index
15% Roth IRA Comm & Technology
17% Mid Cap Value Taxable personal
23% Comm & Technology Taxable personal

Financing with the roofer sounds good.
I think Chase offered me 9% on 25K (I need to check)

I am thinking if the market rebounds all I have lost is the interest.
You have a house worth almost 50% of your portfolio and you have no insurance on it? That is playing with fire IMHO. I would insure my house before I worried about anything else.
 
Does home owners insurance always pay for a new roof? Because I've always paid for it myself out of pocket.



No. Homeowners insurance should pay if there is damage due to winds, storms, etc. i was pleasantly surprised to learn that they would not depreciate my 20 year old roof. I assume state regulation requires them to replace the roof without depreciation because many homeowners could not afford to pay if they did. We also had coverage for updated code requirements and only had to pay the $1k deductible on a $18k repair.
 
Thanks to all who replied.
Home is 440k free and clear.
Insurance in Fla is ridiculously high.
Portfolio is 900k
45% Trad IRA SnP 500 index
15% Roth IRA Comm & Technology
17% Mid Cap Value Taxable personal
23% Comm & Technology Taxable personal

Financing with the roofer sounds good.
I think Chase offered me 9% on 25K (I need to check)

I am thinking if the market rebounds all I have lost is the interest.

Probably the last thing you want right now is any criticism on your portfolio. It is, after all, what it is - now. Can't change it without losses. But for the future, consider a serious emergency fund. It seems likely you are attempting to grow your way to financial independence and you're not alone in that here. Lots of folks have near 100% equities. Then again, some of us have access to cash or cash-like investments. It's two different approaches with the same goal in mind.

I'm gonna assume you have no life insurance to borrow against. No "toys" you can sell. No extra car you can sell.

I'd be cautious of borrowing just when the markets are in a tizzy and we don't know where the economy is headed. You could find yourself in a position that you are forced to sell when markets are even lower just to cover your loan. You're betting a lot on the markets coming back in a given time frame.

I like the idea expressed by someone to put off the implants if that's possible. Sometimes a roof can be made to last a couple more years with appropriate patching - not ideal, but it might work.

Sorry, I don't think we've given you the answer you might have hoped for. Best luck on whatever you decide. Check back often and let us know what you decide to do.
 
... I would like to borrow 40,000 for Dental Implants and a new roof. I am debt free as of now. Will any other company lend money using my portfolio as collateral.

Any advice or opinion is appreciated.

You can't borrow using Roth or tIRA assets as collateral.

You should be able to use your taxable portfolio assets as collateral... or sell them and replenish by using the "loan payments" that you would have made to rebuy.
 
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Invest when you have money. Withdraw when you need money. Don't complicate things. Decide how much you need (not want) and withdraw it.
 
I am 60 and live off of a portfolio with TRowe Price. Mostly a Roth in Media and Telecom to keep my AGI low to maximize ACA healthcare subsidies. That account is down 30% this year. I expect it to go back up and I don't want withdraw funds when they are down. TRowe does not lend money against the portfolio and I don't carry Homeowners insurance so home equity loan is not an option. Chase Visa has offered me a personal loan. I wonder if there are any better options. I would like to borrow 40,000 for Dental Implants and a new roof. I am debt free as of now. Will any other company lend money using my portfolio as collateral.



Any advice or opinion is appreciated.



If there is a dental school in the area, you could potentially have your implants placed and restored there at a significant savings vs private practice
 
I’m puzzled. How high is the insurance that you are willing to risk a 440k home total loss?

Insurance is 6k to 12k a year if you can find a company to write it. Then they cancel you mid year to "reduce their exposure". The average Major Hurricane claim is less than 20k.
 
If there is a dental school in the area, you could potentially have your implants placed and restored there at a significant savings vs private practice

The local dental college 30% discount, 2 sterilization scandals, and long waits so I decided against it.
 
The local dental college 30% discount, 2 sterilization scandals, and long waits so I decided against it.

You had me at sterilization scandals. I can overlook a lot - like the long waits, for instance. But there are some things that have to be 100% right. I'd say you made the right choice to pass the dental college by. Best luck.
 
I'd check out those dental discount plans (not the insurance) they only cost ~$100 and cut the sticker price of dental work by quite a lot.

I get that FL insurance is expensive, but to not insure a home when your assets are so low is simply gambling.

If you don't have other sources of income, like early pension, I'd go as far to say that you can't actually afford to be retired in your current location. This is evidenced by not having the cash to pay for home insurance, and home roof, and dental issues which were probably building up over time because they were delayed, (unless dentist is just selling a lie).
 
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