Partners with different priorities

[W2R]

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Originally Posted by Aspire I am within a few months of reaching my retirement target. It's been REALLY REALLY hard getting there. My partner will still be working but, due to restructuring within his work, he now has a lot of leave each year. He feels that this is the time for us to start going on some big trips. I feel stressed by the idea. That's not what I've worked and saved so hard for. I think the money goes so much further at home. And I'm only 43, so I need my savings to last me a long time. I am going to carry on doing a little work. (The main reason for that is that I can then qualify to pay voluntary UK national insurance contributions as a self-employed person - I'm from the UK but based in New Zealand.) But work really stresses me and I don't consider it worth doing more work to pay for trips. My budget might stretch to some trips, but I want to see how it goes for a time first, and then not overdo it. But of course I need to keep my partner happy. I don't suppose there is a perfect answer to this, but perhaps someone has some advice or at least understands.

Hi Aspire.

Frank and I are not married, and we choose not to live together or mix our money. We are already retired. At our ages we really don't have the possibility of a do-over, so neither of us wants anyone spending our (respective) money. Our investments and bank accounts and property are all separate. This works for us.

When we travel together, we split the costs between the two of us. He likes to travel more than I do, but still I would never agree to go on a trip if I felt uncomfortable spending that much.

If your money is separate like ours, then I would urge you to follow your gut instincts.

If it is not separate, then you have a bigger problem. In my opinion it is impossible to force another person to change or do what you want him to do. Instead I would be re-thinking the relationship. But then, I am a divorcee so I guess that is to be expected.

[haha]

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Originally Posted by W2R n my opinion it is impossible to force another person to change or do what you want him to do.

+1. All that can be gained by trying to get one's way is resentment.

As in all negotiations, what really counts is "can you walk away?"

Ha

[Bestwifeever]

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Originally Posted by haha +1. All that can be gained by trying to get one's way is resentment. As in all negotiations, what really counts is "can you walk away?" Ha

Or "will you walk away?"

[Walt34]

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Originally Posted by aim-high To me it seems there is more for the two of you to work through than travel. You value frugality and desire early retirement. He's a bit of a spendthrift with no savings.

I was thinking that too. If the relationship is to last there must be a meeting of minds on that. My ex from a long time ago refused to negotiate and it fell apart. I wasn't inherently opposed to anything she wanted to do (in fact I was looking forward to it) but I won't do it on credit. I just didn't see any future going down that road.

[Aspire]

Thanks to all of your for your responses (during my night). I'll try to answer them all together.
I really think that keeping our assets separate works for both of us. It means he is free to do what he wants without interference from me, and I can retire without guilt, as I will carry on covering my share of expenses.
We do have a written agreement stating that our assets will remain separate if we separate. We entered into it after we had been together over three years, which means it is not watertight, but a lawyer informed me that it would still be taken into account. We are planning to get married, and I think it would be advisable to reconfirm that position in writing before marrying.
I understand that it appears to be a dangerous situation, but I do not actually feel that it is. He is possibly the kindest person I have ever met. He always says that he does not understand how anyone can feel right about taking another person's savings in a separation, and I believe him. I know people can be deceived, but you sometimes have to trust someone.
We have been together ten years, and we have already been through a lot. Six years ago, I purchased a business for him to run. We took a lot of professional advice prior to purchase, but nevertheless found it was very different from how it had been presented. He could have walked away, but instead he worked incredible hours, combining a job with the business, for two years to salvage what he could. He knows how stressful that financial situation was for me - I was close to suicide and my sleep still hasn't recovered. and I don't think he would put me through taking my savings from me.
As long as his current job lasts, he's not unhappy to be working. He acknowledges that he would need more spending money to entertain him if he retired early. He quite likes his job, and spends a lot of his paid time on call on home. I work from home too, and will still be mostly at home once I stop working, so our lives are not separate.
Perhaps our relationship is stronger than I think, and could survive him traveling alone. But I don't think he would go alone, unless it was motorbike-related.
I agree that we may need to talk about financial matters. He has talked about wanting retirement savings and planning to join his work pension scheme and save a large part of his income each year. But then he gets distracted by things he wants now - currently distant travel. I might need to remind him of the other goals.
I think I do need to go outside of my comfort zone a little on expenditure, as my comfort zone is extremely limited (probably limited to day trips from home), but it needs to be within some limits.
We have mentioned the possibility (not yet investigated) of getting married on a cruise. If it was our wedding and honeymoon combined, I could justify spending some money on it, as a one-off. We'd still go for a bargain cruise deal, which do exist. After that, I might need to try to convince him to take holidays locally for a time. I'm not sure how that will go.

[Lsbcal]

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Originally Posted by Aspire ...(snip)... Perhaps our relationship is stronger than I think, and could survive him traveling alone. But I don't think he would go alone, unless it was motorbike-related. I agree that we may need to talk about financial matters. He has talked about wanting retirement savings and planning to join his work pension scheme and save a large part of his income each year. But then he gets distracted by things he wants now - currently distant travel. I might need to remind him of the other goals. ...

Sounds like you are well grounded and maybe he is more spontaneous ... motorbikes and fun come first. Some people just do not want to plan and sometimes they will be OK with the spouse doing the planning with their input. The problem is that if you are responsible, and he is not quite responsible with money.

If an emergency or old age comes up what happens to your funds? You cannot just walk away when you love a person. So to preclude this you both must be contributing to the financial goals.

For you two, maybe the best thing would be for him to get some very responsible, reasonably priced planning. Something like a Vanguard if it exists in NZ with a fee only person (they do not take control of the assets to assets) for motivation and reviews.

Just some thoughts across the ocean.

[samclem]

Best of luck, Aspire. As you and others have noted, this issue of earning/saving/spending is a fundamental one, and has some very deep roots in both of you (what you value, how/if you think about the future, etc). Some couples achieve harmony by deliberately "fencing" money for dedicated purposes--if you've made the mental jump to put a certain amount of your earnings into a "vacation jar", then maybe you won't have trouble spending it. And, if you see he's setting money aside for retirement, I'm sure that will take a load off your mind and make it easier for you to meet him halfway by contributing to this vacation fund.
Two observations:
1) The issue of you having lots of free time for a few decades and him being shackled to the job is a tough one. He might like his work now, but that's not a long-term given.
2) As you'll appreciate, the spending/saving issue has great potential to foster resentment if the eventual agreed-upon plan isn't something you both truly want to do. And do for a long time.

Again, best wishes.

[Aspire]

Thanks Lbscal and samclem for your good suggestions. The idea of 'fencing' money seems helpful.
I had very little money as a child and I've always had difficulty with spending. He has helped me with learning to spend some money on myself, and it is probably beneficial for us both to find some middle ground here.
I wasn't planning on discussing this with him right away, but he saw I was distracted and asked me why, and I told him about this post. I found it difficult at first to tell him, but then it was really helpful to talk about it. He says he realises that he has got carried away. He'd like to do the things the talks about, but knows he can't do them all. We agree that it may become more comfortable for me once I settle into retirement and (hopefully) see that I have some spare money in my budget. In the meantime he has some accrued leave now that we need to decide what to do with, but he agrees that we will keep within reasonable limits.
We clearly do have different outlooks, so I don't suppose this is the last time that issues will arise, but it seems we are both willing to find a solution together on this.

[Meadbh]

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Originally Posted by Aspire I wasn't planning on discussing this with him right away, but he saw I was distracted and asked me why, and I told him about this post. I found it difficult at first to tell him, but then it was really helpful to talk about it. He says he realises that he has got carried away. He'd like to do the things the talks about, but knows he can't do them all. We agree that it may become more comfortable for me once I settle into retirement and (hopefully) see that I have some spare money in my budget. In the meantime he has some accrued leave now that we need to decide what to do with, but he agrees that we will keep within reasonable limits. We clearly do have different outlooks, so I don't suppose this is the last time that issues will arise, but it seems we are both willing to find a solution together on this.

This is a good start!

[Aspire]

Thanks to you all. I thought of something else I should add to those concerned about us going into retirement together.
I can't say that there isn't an issue, but I have done something to address it. I am concerned about the possibility that pensions means testing could be introduced in New Zealand, as has happened in Australia. If that happened, I would find myself supporting us both on my savings. That is one of the reasons why I am paying UK voluntary contributions, so that I will be eligible for a UK pension if the NZ one fails. (The two are offset and you get whichever is higher.) My partner would also be eligible for a 60% UK pension if we were married by then. It's not a total solution, and of course it is possible that means testing could be introduced in both countries, but it's a worthwhile precaution at a very low cost.