Poll:Vehicle habits

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Historically, #2...but last time we were ready to pay cash, and then were offered 0% financing. And this was 2017, before interest rates hit their current low! So we took the free money.

But you left off our next most common method: "inheriting" used cars from friends and family who traded up! Decades ago, we were given two vehicles by my in-laws when they replaced theirs, and I bought a couple from close friends for way below what they could have gotten in a private sale.

 

[bobandsherry]

I don't have a 5 year period, and the data below include the actual "sold for" price, not an estimate of value.

2006 Infiniti sedan, bought in 2009 for cash, sold in 2016 for cash. Put about 110k miles on it. Cost was $223/month (cost excludes fuel, registration, insurance)

2007 Highlander, bought in 2009 for cash, sold in 2020 for cash. Put about 135k miles on it. Cost was $173/month (cost exclude fuel, registration, insurance)

I don't have the data on my earlier cars.

Interesting perspective, seems then that you had very few (if any?) mechanical problems with cars, especially with higher mileage. So that explains why I get many calls a week about selling me an extended warranty (seriously, it's frustrating how many calls I get). They know how reliable cars are today and see how profitable it can be selling those. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

The last new car DW and/or I bought was in 1985. However, the arrival of direct-injection turbocharged vehicles has me considering purchasing new because of the maintenance these engines seem to require. I'd be leery of buying a used one, and would cut the dealer-recommended oil change interval in half.

 

[ivinsfan]

You like to squeeze value out of your car, congrats! You didn't mention, but I'm going to guess you've owned that since new? And agree, you have to leave out fuel costs, but the new EV's may make that a requirement for comparison in the future.

Don't take it personally, but I don't think I'd enjoy driving that car. As I said originally, my wants are a newer car with latest technology and safety features. Nothing like getting in, plugging my phone into the USB on the car, getting Waze to pop-up on the big screen and then enjoying streaming music. But that's just my quirk, I love technology Also, with that being 24 years old and I'd always in the back of my mind be thinking what's getting ready to go out on the car -- and it seems those type of problems are never at convenient times. I guess I'll justify the incremental $165/mo I spend as cost of piece of mind and entertainment

Just to balance out your experience with new cars. My experience has been quite the opposite. With exception of some cars back in the 80's, I've had very few mechanical problems with cars. Thinking back, the last time any of my cars needed to go into the shop (other than for regular maintenance) was back in 2008. It was thought to be bad battery, turned out to be bad alternator, less than 1 year old so covered under warranty. Knock on wood, all cars since then haven't needed to go into the shop for repairs. I even had a couple hard top convertibles, or rather my wife drove them, and those are known to be problematic but never had a problem with either. Further, I look at the experience of my son and daughter and parents. Their newer cars haven't needed to go into the shop either. So even with all the technology I want, I'm still having a positive and reliable experience.

You just gave a little bit of a con here against your leasing is cheaper then buying comment...but my question is about sales tax. Are you adding sales tax to your monthly cost of operating your vehicle? Second question plate fee when you lease and swap every three years the cost of your plates never goes down, ever.

As far as repairs all major non wear repairs on a new car are usually covered for at least three years. Actually the last new car we bought had a dealers life time power train warranty added for 79.99..

 

[HarveyS]

Interesting perspective, seems then that you had very few (if any?) mechanical problems with cars, especially with higher mileage.

Correct. One issue with Infiiniti cam follower sensor. Balance of costs were maintenance. Tires, batteries, changed plugs at 100k miles (expensive as exhaust manifold needed to come off to access some of the plugs), timing belt/water pump on highlander, brakes several times on each car, filters, oil changes, wipers. Nothing serious.

I have never considered leasing -- until today. Your experience suggests I could have been driving new cars for about $1200/year more (plus, perhaps, higher insurance). Maybe it's time to blow the dough and upgrade myself! Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[ivinsfan]

Those of you using 0 interest financing are you leaving money on the table in the form of cashback or rebates?

Last new car we got an extra 750 to finance at 2% or something and paid the car off after one payment.

This time we got offered zero % but would need to forgo the cashback bonus on the car. paid cash.

 

[pb4uski]

I don't look at it as continued payments. Those who pay cash just prepay their payments. Lol. I look at total cost per year. Then compare with how much I'd spend over a 10 year period depending on maintenance, repairs, etc. For me, I enjoy a newer car every 3 years for either new safety or tech, plus maybe just get tired of looking at same car for too long. Just the way I roll.

As I said, I consider the cost over 10 years, that seems to be what the "frugal" find their sweet spot to buy and hold. I use my own estimates as every time I ask those who claim to be frugal how much they spend over 10 years, including the cost of vehicle less the value after 10 years, plus any repairs and maintenance they've put into the car, I never get anyone to share that. So I estimate the expense for new tires, batteries, oil changes, wiper blades as well as something going wrong within a 10 year period like an alternator.

For me, my cost over past 5 years has been just under $20k. For 7 years my cost will be about $27k. Cars I drive are between $40-50k. My current car had $46k MSRP, my lease payment is $300/mo. That's no money down which is only way anyone should lease a car. I don't pay for maintenance as dealer covers the scheduled maintenance. I'm always under warranty, so any repairs are covered. I also get a free loaner when car is due for maintenance or warranty work, they bring the car to me. I don't drive massive miles, 12k/yr is sufficient for my driving needs, more so for past year due to Covid. So my out of pocket costs truly is just my payment, I'm ok with $3,600/yr (18 more months). Plus a new car with new tech and safety.

If you don't mind sharing, what's your all in cost for 5 year period for owning your car; loan payments, maintenance and repairs, less what you reasonably think your equity is today? How much you expect you'll spend on repairs and maintenance for the next 2 years when you enjoy the freedom of no payments?

Monthly payments were $529.60 for 60 months or $31,776. Car has been trouble free... maintenance has been mainly oil changes, tire rotations, engine and cabin air filter replacements and two sets of tires.... ~$2,152 per my Quicken records. Current equity is $15,390 trade-in and $18,750 retail... $17,070 average. Net cost was $16,858 or $281/month.

For next two years, let's assume 2 oil change/tire rotations a year ($85/each or $340), $50 for engine and cabin air filters (I buy on Amazon and install myself), and $1,000 for other stuff... that's ~$1,500. A 2-year older car with 25k more miles would have a trade-in value of $10,650 and a retail value of $13,950... $12,300 average.

So for 7 years my net cost will be $31,776 for the car payments plus $3,652 for maintenance and repairs less equity of $12,300.... a net cost of $23,128... divided by 7 years is $275/month. OTOH, if the $1,000 for other stuff doesn't happen then $263/month.

I will say that your claim of a lease payment of $300/month for car with a $46k MSRP with no money upfront is way, way better than any lease deal that I have ever seen... which makes me wonder if it is a special situation of some sort. If I could find a lease of a similar vehicle... or even a new version of my current ride that has a $35k MSRP for $300/month with no money down then I would seriously consider leasing.

 

[ivinsfan]

Correct. One issue with Infiiniti cam follower sensor. Balance of costs were maintenance. Tires, batteries, changed plugs at 100k miles (expensive as exhaust manifold needed to come off to access some of the plugs), timing belt/water pump on highlander, brakes several times on each car, filters, oil changes, wipers. Nothing serious.

I have never considered leasing -- until today. Your experience suggests I could have been driving new cars for about $1200/year more (plus, perhaps, higher insurance). Maybe it's time to blow the dough and upgrade myself! Thanks for sharing your experience.

What's your mileage yearly? If you drive more then the lease amount you will be penalized ,if you drive then the lease amount your cost per mile is higher... and be aware of add ons to your lease. Also B and S doesn't mention if they buy extra gap insurance when driving a leased car..if you total it you could end up owing money to the dealer. That's my understanding since I have never leased.. also be aware that any random damage to the car can be charged against you at the end of lease.

 

[bobandsherry]

Also B and S doesn't mention if they buy extra gap insurance when driving a leased car..if you total it you could end up owing money to the dealer. That's my understanding since I have never leased.. also be aware that any random damage to the car can be charged against you at the end of lease.

Every lease I've ever had has included gap insurance as part of the standard lease. That's with Nissan/Infiniti, Kia, GM and Ford/Lincoln. Additionally, that's why you should NEVER put money down on a lease. If car is totalled you lose whatever you have paid including any capital reduction you may have put down.

As for charges for "random damage, each lease I've had, multiple manufactures, has included them scheduling someone to look over the car a month or so before expiration date. They are very upfront as to if there are any items that need to be addressed prior to turn in. But routine dings and chips, considered normal wear and tear, and not a charge. In my experience, again multiple manufactures, I've never had any repairs noted as needing to be done. Additionally, I've never had any extra charges for damage when car was turned in.

 

[MrsHaloFIRE]

I didnt vote because it varies. Always cash, but we wouldnt turn down a 0pct. I wanted to add that in talking to folks, alot CLAIM they only buy new and drive them into the ground, but their ground and my ground must be different grounds because this tends to happen about every 5 years "but Im going to keep it forever" yeah uhuh

 

[ivinsfan]

Monthly payments were $529.60 for 60 months or $31,776. Car has been trouble free... maintenance has been mainly oil changes, tire rotations, engine and cabin air filter replacements and two sets of tires.... ~$2,152 per my Quicken records. Current equity is $15,390 trade-in and $18,750 retail... $17,070 average. Net cost was $16,858 or $281/month.

For next two years, let's assume 2 oil change/tire rotations a year ($85/each or $340), $50 for engine and cabin air filters (I buy on Amazon and install myself), and $1,000 for other stuff... that's ~$1,500. A 2-year older car with 25k more miles would have a trade-in value of $10,650 and a retail value of $13,950... $12,300 average.

So for 7 years my net cost based on car payments rather than cost will be $31,776 for the car plus $3,652 for maintenance and repairs less equity of $12,300.... a net cost of $23,128... divided by 7 years is $275/month.

I will say that your claim of a lease payment of $300/month for a car with a $46k MSRP with no money upfront is way, way better than any lease deal that I have ever seen... which makes me wonder if it is a special situation of some sort. If I could find a lease of a similar vehicle... or even a new version of my current ride that has a $35k MSRP for $300/month with no money down then I would seriously consider leasing.

I can find a leased car for 36 months ..36,000 miles at 300 a month but it's a 27K car and you need 2500 down at signing, so yes not sure exactly what the poster does to get a car twice as expensive for 300 bucks with no cash out the door...I am seeing a lower equipped Honda Accords for 300 a month and no cash down..maybe we need to start a newer thread about car leasing in 2021. I recall we had a leasing thread going but that was several years ago. we just bought a car so I'm not going to start a lease thread.

 

[ivinsfan]

Every lease I've ever had has included gap insurance as part of the standard lease. That's with Nissan/Infiniti, Kia, GM and Ford/Lincoln. Additionally, that's why you should NEVER put money down on a lease. If car is totalled you lose whatever you have paid including any capital reduction you may have put down.

As for charges for "random damage, each lease I've had, multiple manufactures, has included them scheduling someone to look over the car a month or so before expiration date. They are very upfront as to if there are any items that need to be addressed prior to turn in. But routine dings and chips, considered normal wear and tear, and not a charge. In my experience, again multiple manufactures, I've never had any repairs noted as needing to be done. Additionally, I've never had any extra charges for damage when car was turned in.

So you take good of your cars, which is probably a must for a leased car..just pointing that damage to the car while you drive it must be taken care of at turn in time.

 

[pb4uski]

I can find a leased car for 36 months ..36,000 miles at 300 a month but it's a 27K car and you need 2500 down at signing, so yes not sure exactly what the poster does to get a car twice as expensive for 300 bucks with no cash out the door...I am seeing a lower equipped Honda Accords for 300 a month and no cash down..maybe we need to start a newer thread about car leasing in 2021. I recall we had a leasing thread going but that was several years ago. we just bought a car so I'm not going to start a lease thread.

So to my thinking $300/month for 36 months with $2,500 down is really $369/month. The offer that you quoted seems consistent with the lease payment on a $27k car with $2,500 down according to the TrueCar Car Lease Calculator (see screenshot below).

If I put $46k MSRP and $0 down into that calculator I get $661/month so B&S is either a really good negotiator or BS ... just kidding... I do believe him but suspect his may be some special situation of some sort.

And those advertised teaser lease offers typically exclude a lot of things. A few years ago when I was buying my truck I recall seeing a very attractive lease ad for a Toyota Tacoma... so I stopped by the Toyota dealer and inquired about that specific offer. By the time they added in acquisition fee, gap insurance, title, taxes, registration, etc the monthly lease cost was close to twice the advertised price... so I just told them that their ads were deceptive and walked out the door.

https://www.truecar.com/car-lease-c...3xxftEf1IdIs3BA9RdnsppAVV1Xm_jCEaAk5SEALw_wcB

 

[bobandsherry]

I will say that your claim of a lease payment of $300/month for car with a $46k MSRP with no money upfront is way, way better than any lease deal that I have ever seen... which makes me wonder if it is a special situation of some sort. If I could find a lease of a similar vehicle... or even a new version of my current ride that has a $35k MSRP for $300/month with no money down then I would seriously consider leasing.

First, thanks for sharing your details. I use this type of info to guide me on future buy/lease. Similar to you, I may chose to buy or lease depending on the deal available. I'm not opposed to buying, have bought several cars as well, and don't say leasing is the right answer everytime and for everyone.

Nope, nothing "special", available to anyone. It may have been more due to timing, right place, right time (incentives, dealer looking to make goals and moving inventory, money factor costs, etc). But wouldn't say it was unique either, vehicle before that was $3k lower MSRP and payment was just $25 more per month. I did have to chose a different color than I originally had wanted, but I was happy with the alternative color.

Again, thanks for sharing your details.

 

[ivinsfan]

So to my thinking $300/month for 36 months with $2,500 down is really $369/month. The offer that you quoted seems consistent with the lease payment on a $27k car with $2,500 down according to the TrueCar Car Lease Calculator (see screenshot below).

If I put $46k MSRP and $0 down into that calculator I get $661/month so B&S is either a really good negotiator or BS ... I do believe him but suspect his may be some special situation of some sort.

And those advertised teaser lease offers typically exclude a lot of things. A few years ago when I was buying my truck I recall seeing a very attractive lease ad for a Toyota Tacoma... so I stopped by the Toyota dealer and inquired about that specific offer. By the time they added in acquisition fee, gap insurance, title, taxes, registration, etc the monthly lease cost was close to twice the advertised price... so I just told them that their ads were deceptive and walked out the door.

We just traded off a car we thought we'd be driving for at least another 3 years. My DH wanted some of the new tech/safety improvements. So I am interested in leasing costs..after a few years in this car, we might consider leasing as we continue to age.

 

[ivinsfan]

First, thanks for sharing your details. I use this type of info to guide me on future buy/lease. Similar to you, I may chose to buy or lease depending on the deal available. I'm not opposed to buying, have bought several cars as well, and don't say leasing is the right answer everytime and for everyone.

Nope, nothing "special", available to anyone. It may have been more due to timing, right place, right time (incentives, dealer looking to make goals and moving inventory, money factor costs, etc). But wouldn't say it was unique either, vehicle before that was $3k lower MSRP and payment was just $25 more per month. I did have to chose a different color than I originally had wanted, but I was happy with the alternative color.

Again, thanks for sharing your details.

So how about sales tax and gap insurance..what does that add to your monthly cost? I know states can vary wildly with sales tax on cars..

I know that a very good credit score can help with the no cash down issue as well..but I would imagine the payment would go up not that the cash down amount would disappear.

 

[Sunset]

I didnt vote because it varies. Always cash, but we wouldnt turn down a 0pct. I wanted to add that in talking to folks, alot CLAIM they only buy new and drive them into the ground, but their ground and my ground must be different grounds because this tends to happen about every 5 years "but Im going to keep it forever" yeah uhuh

From this site, I've learned next time buying a car, I'll take 0% financing or cheap financing if it includes a discount and I can pay off anytime fee free.

As for the driving into the ground, I'm happy to go 10+ yrs , but DW is currently at 23 yrs and still not interested in buying another.
Her ground is different from mine

 

[O2Bfree]

As for the driving into the ground, I'm happy to go 10+ yrs , but DW is currently at 23 yrs and still not interested in buying another.
Her ground is different from mine

What's your DW driving that's lasted so long? Or maybe she's just a really low-mileage gal.

 

[bobandsherry]

So how about sales tax and gap insurance..what does that add to your monthly cost? I know states can vary wildly with sales tax on cars..

I know that a very good credit score can help with the no cash down issue as well..but I would imagine the payment would go up not that the cash down amount would disappear.

As I mentioned previously, gap insurance is included. From my experience manufacture lease includes gap. However, my specific experience is limited to Nissan/Infiniti, GM, Kia, Ford/Lincoln.

For my state, the sales tax is added to and included in the final payment.

 

[beowulf]

We have two cars, one being 10 years old and the other 4 years old. Until Covid, we drove dross country twice a year to visit family and stay for a few months. Now, we drive to the supermarket about once every two weeks and a few tourist trips just to get out, never more than 75 miles each way and only go yo parks. Older car has 110K miles, newer one just hit 30K miles. We tend to drive our vehicles until the cost to repair exceeds the value - that's averaged 12 years. Longest was 17 ('95 Acura Integra), shortest was 9 ('72 Chevy Vega).

I expect we will look for something new in about 2 years to replace the older car, unless we don't put more mileage on it by then. We have financed cars and paid cash for cars ($350 for a '63 VW convertible in 1970 while stationed in Germany). We have never leased a car. It's not a viable option unless you enjoy having a car payment for ever and like a new car every few years. Or you have a business you can use to deduct the lease costs. We look at a car as a depreciating asset that falls in value the day you drive it off the lot. If we pay cash, the only costs after that are the same costs you would have on a lease. If we finance, in 3 or 4 years, we have no payments and again, the only costs are the same you would have on a lease. I know people have different thoughts on what a car means to them. Having grown up in a big city where having a car was a liability, not an asset, we consider a car to be transportation - meaning we buy the best we can afford Consumer Reports - maintenance, relatability, build quality, comfort etc. No desire for muscle cars, cars costing so much you could buy a house for the same money or features that you never really use. Our last 4 cars have come with sun roofs - we rarely ever use them. Two have has 4 wheel drive, which was a waste of money. But the cars with those features were still cheaper off the lot than ordering one without those features. Dealers become more negotiable at the end of the month, end of the quarter and at the end of the model year. We bought our 2016 right after the 2017's came out and the discount off list was about 27% and it was what I call a semi-luxury car. Also, we never buy a car in high demand. We once bought a car through a credit union buying service and they gave us a big discount, bonus cash off the price and a great interest rate. You can get the great interest rate right now, but forget about the other 2.

Have fun haggling. Just remember the auto buying scene in the original Fargo movie.

 

[pacergal]

Have purchased both New and Used cars, financed, run them until they almost drop, usually 10-15 years. Sell or part out.
Have had 2 lemons, both used, a jetta and mazda. Kept them only a year or two.

 

[rodi]

We tend to hold onto vehicles. We've bought 3 vehicles in the past 3 years.

My car was bought new, was going to pay cash but they offered 0%. There were not cash back offers. Took the free financing. My old car was 10 years old when we sold it.

My husband's 1995 pickup was in an accident just over a year ago. We already had plans to buy a new car for his daily driver... but the kids were using the truck. We bought a used 1999 pickup that the kids now use. Paid cash through a private party sale.

My husband bought a new car a month later. His plan was to use it for a big cross country road trip to visit family members. Instead we stayed home due to the pandemic. His car had around 2000 miles the first year. We paid cash for this car.

So... Cash for 1 used and 1 new. Financing for 1 new because 0%.

Don't see myself leasing ever. Adds to the overall cost.

For selling we don't trade in because they never come close to what we can get private party. My car we sold via carmax. Other cars we sold via craigslist

 

[Bamaman]

(4) FINANCE a NEW vehicle, but trade every few years while it still has value. 2020 F150 and 2021 Toyota Venza Hybrid SUV

I still have a 2003 diesel pickup truck that's scheduled to wear out when I'm about 95 years old. And I have a 2008 Lexus we're not even driving right now.

 

[ivinsfan]

So to my thinking $300/month for 36 months with $2,500 down is really $369/month. The offer that you quoted seems consistent with the lease payment on a $27k car with $2,500 down according to the TrueCar Car Lease Calculator (see screenshot below).

If I put $46k MSRP and $0 down into that calculator I get $661/month so B&S is either a really good negotiator or BS ... just kidding... I do believe him but suspect his may be some special situation of some sort.

And those advertised teaser lease offers typically exclude a lot of things. A few years ago when I was buying my truck I recall seeing a very attractive lease ad for a Toyota Tacoma... so I stopped by the Toyota dealer and inquired about that specific offer. By the time they added in acquisition fee, gap insurance, title, taxes, registration, etc the monthly lease cost was close to twice the advertised price... so I just told them that their ads were deceptive and walked out the door.

https://www.truecar.com/car-lease-c...3xxftEf1IdIs3BA9RdnsppAVV1Xm_jCEaAk5SEALw_wcB

So I'm learning something from BandS here, gap insurance is included in the monthly upfront cost of your lease. .it's not an add on so if your dealer tries to add it on they are double dipping and likely breaking the law..I googled the last part...

 

[38Chevy454]

I'm mostly choice 5. I will take advantage of cheap financing if available, and have no issues buying new if that's what I want. But typically I buy used paying cash as the most common.