Profoundly Selfish and Unpatriotic

[CuppaJoe]

This highlights the one and only draw I feel to 3rd world countries. For the most part people are too busy trying to get food and a place to stay that weird crap like the above that flourishes in the hothouse atmosphere of the USA just can't get much of a toehold.

I do feel that minimizing driving and vehicle ownership, and also minimizing one's real estate footprint lessens but does not completely erase the need for all the "protection products" of modern American life.

Ha

Seems like you could rub shoulders with many people from third world countries in your city, as in mine. But of course this country changes them, makes them fat and materialistic--I don't fully buy that idea. Had a good Nisai buddy in the '70s who would say, "these immigrants are more American that Americans." Of course I would reply, "they ARE Americans." [Could it be that we are still on the subject of patriotic Americans?]

OTOH, I have enjoyed knowing some "3rd world" refugees who retain much of the culture of their native land albeit sometimes manifested in wearing their wealth in gold jewelry. SO complains about the odd cooking odors but many have become some of my best friends. My Ethiopian pal is helping cheer me on with health issues--encouraging me to do the proper exercises....

 

[Gardnr]

I'm having trouble seeing why it's selfish to be FIREd.

Agreed. It's mostly envy on the part of those who haven't done the smart things and want to drag us down with them.

The thing I'm watching out for is for the majority that haven't prepared themselves for retirement to start looking for ways to come after our money. They look at the millions saved to support a modest lifestyle in retirement as "riches" to be redistributed. It makes my blood boil to think about it.

 

[REWahoo]

It makes my blood boil to think about it.

Are you sure you didn't just leave the seat warmers on?

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

How about a good government.....

They didn't 'allow' you to get the job anyhow... so why should they 'protect' it

Texas, just curious - what do/did you do for a living?

 

[UncleHoney]

I'll have to admit that for me ER is entirely unpatriotic and selfish. It's just payback for all the things I missed out on over the years.

For more than 40 years I paid for someone elses kids to go to public school but never had any of my own.

For more than 40 years I maintained a balanced family budget and never got into debt over my head.

Only once in 40 years did I ever borrow money against my house and paid it all back in two years.

So I guess it's my turn to even the score and get my comeuppance for all the things I missed. Things like McMansions, things like SUV's, trips to Cancun, trips to Europe. Things like multiple maxed out credit cards and Helocs. Just the little things in life that make the world go round.

Uncle Honey, just one who restrained himself till he got to the finish line ahead of the pack.

 

[friar1610]

[/I]As for the 63-year-old Stein, he has no plans to retire.
"I don't ever expect to stop working," he says. "I love my work. I don't believe there is a meaningful life without work. You're not a whole person without work."

Yeah--they need to keep working so we can quit!

I enjoy reading Stein's columns in the NYT Sunday business section. That said, I think it's a little disingenuous when he makes statements like "you're not a whole person without work." Stein is a very smart, hard-working, well educated guy (degree in economics, law degree). He makes very good money writing, lecturing, appearing on TV, etc. - doing lots of things that make it easy to want to keep working. Does that mean the cubicle drone working for mega-corp isn't a "whole person" if s/he wants out to pursue more satisfying, non-employment, endeavors? I think not.

 

[friar1610]

I'm having trouble seeing why it's selfish to be FIREd... Many use some of their free time to serve their fellow humans in some capacity through volunteer work.

That was my thought when I read the article. Is it more patriotic to get paid to sell people crap they don't need than to work in a homeless shelter a day a week for free? Don't think so.

 

[unclemick]

I enjoy reading Stein's columns in the NYT Sunday business section. That said, I think it's a little disingenuous when he makes statements like "you're not a whole person without work." Stein is a very smart, hard-working, well educated guy (degree in economics, law degree). He makes very good money writing, lecturing, appearing on TV, etc. - doing lots of things that make it easy to want to keep working. Does that mean the cubicle drone working for mega-corp isn't a "whole person" if s/he wants out to pursue more satisfying, non-employment, endeavors? I think not.

When Ben Stein shows me the dirt under his finger nails - I'll consider his opinion of work and un-Patriotic.

Meanwhile I'll go with my late Father - never trust a man without dirt under his finger nails or calluses on his hands. As for Patriotic - be highly suspicious of the guy who volunteers to hold your coat.



heh heh heh - George Templeton Strong in Ken Burns Civil War series on PBS was my favorite. The Norwegian widow is in 'er management' - she gets her dividends and manages to party on!

This seems to be a popular theme nowadays - lemmings? .

 

[Gardnr]

I enjoy reading Stein's columns in the NYT Sunday business section. That said, I think it's a little disingenuous when he makes statements like "you're not a whole person without work." Stein is a very smart, hard-working, well educated guy (degree in economics, law degree). He makes very good money writing, lecturing, appearing on TV, etc. - doing lots of things that make it easy to want to keep working. Does that mean the cubicle drone working for mega-corp isn't a "whole person" if s/he wants out to pursue more satisfying, non-employment, endeavors? I think not.

I completely agree. It's rather arrogant for those like Stein to make that kind of statement and to project that upon the whole population.

 

[kcowan]

Stein is a sycophant who needs attention to complete himself. Because his sense of identity comes from external reinforcement, he has to work to remain complete. His condition can be treated. But first he has to acknowledge his many inadequacies.

 

[haha]

If I were him I wouldn't retire either. What an easy, prestigious role to play. Go around being lionized and not having any real program responsibility.

If he wants to go to Europe, he can go with better contacts and more resources than most of us could. He can drive around Beverly Hills in his Mercedes convertible and everyone will know who he is.

Plus, in spite of looking like a frog, I imagine he gets all the feminine attention that he can execute on.

All in all not a bad gig.

Ha

 

[Khan]

Stein is a sycophant who needs attention to complete himself. Because his sense of identity comes from external reinforcement, he has to work to remain complete. His condition can be treated. But first he has to acknowledge his many inadequacies.

He's also a creationist and thinks science is evil.

 

[CuppaJoe]

Amusing thread, if anyone has already expressed this opinion, I agree with you: This topic is in the dryer's spin cycle. IMO, it is neither particularly patriotic nor unpatriotic to dry your laundry on an outside line; but I will fight to the death for your right to choose. Same goes for both continuing to work past 55 or ERing whenever you can, we can spin it either way or neither way.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

Came across a blog entry that addressed the same point as this thread:

There is NOTHING unpatriotic about retiring early | Mighty Bargain Hunter

This line resonated quite soundly:

The statement "You’re being selfish and unpatriotic" is more an admission of the un-sustainability of the federal programs for senior citizens: "If everyone does what you’re doing, the system will go bankrupt. So don’t enjoy your benefits, even though it’s clearly in your better interest to enjoy your benefits."

 

[armor99]

This is a very amusing thread so far. For some people.... as long as they believe they are getting something for nothing, are all for it. And they are calling people that want to ER selfish? How exactly does the logic work on that one? Reminds me of people I used to know, who believed that if you did not lock up your bike with a strong enough lock, it was your own fault that it got stolen. Same thing with those who are always screaming to "tax the rich". It is because they believe they will get some of whatever they have for free. I would wager you if the poor were being taxed instead they would scream... "tax the poor", just as long as you do not consider ME "poor". Retiring early says that you are willing to take care of yourself, and do not need or want others to take care of you. Seems to be as anti-selfish as you can get to me.

 

[Nords]

I enjoy reading Stein's columns in the NYT Sunday business section. That said, I think it's a little disingenuous when he makes statements like "you're not a whole person without work." Stein is a very smart, hard-working, well educated guy (degree in economics, law degree). He makes very good money writing, lecturing, appearing on TV, etc. - doing lots of things that make it easy to want to keep working. Does that mean the cubicle drone working for mega-corp isn't a "whole person" if s/he wants out to pursue more satisfying, non-employment, endeavors? I think not.

IIRC one of Stein's old acquaintances has posted about him on this board. His problems go much deeper than his work ethic and his reasoning abilities. And then there's the whole issue of his annuity shilling.

Now that George Carlin has gone to his great reward, I no longer expect comedians to be paragons of ethics or deep wells of critical-thinking analysis. I don't rely on their financial advice, either, any more than I depend on Bill Gross or Jim Cramer to help me pick stocks...

 

[CitricAcid]

Came across a blog entry that addressed the same point as this thread:

There is NOTHING unpatriotic about retiring early | Mighty Bargain Hunter

This line resonated quite soundly:

The statement "You’re being selfish and unpatriotic" is more an admission of the un-sustainability of the federal programs for senior citizens: "If everyone does what you’re doing, the system will go bankrupt. So don’t enjoy your benefits, even though it’s clearly in your better interest to enjoy your benefits."

This is the crux of the point of the argument. The benefits given out cannot be sustained by the revenues taken in... so let's keep the same faulty system and be sure to have others (YOU) foot the bill instead of trying to fix it, dump it, change it, get rid of it...

 

[ziggy29]

The statement "You’re being selfish and unpatriotic" is more an admission of the un-sustainability of the federal programs for senior citizens: "If everyone does what you’re doing, the system will go bankrupt. So don’t enjoy your benefits, even though it’s clearly in your better interest to enjoy your benefits."

Precisely. Almost everyone wants to "fix" the three-headed entitlement monster of Social Security, Medicare and public pensions...but only if it [-]screws[/-] impacts the generations after their own...

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

IIRC one of Stein's old acquaintances has posted about him on this board. His problems go much deeper than his work ethic and his reasoning abilities. And then there's the whole issue of his annuity shilling.

Now that George Carlin has gone to his great reward, I no longer expect comedians to be paragons of ethics or deep wells of critical-thinking analysis. I don't rely on their financial advice, either, any more than I depend on Bill Gross or Jim Cramer to help me pick stocks...

George Carlin was one of the rare public figures that would say the emperor has no clothes. There probably isn't a celebrity or politician alive that would go anywhere near as far as Carlin did (though Eddie Murphy came close when he was in his "Raw" days back in the 80s). Stein is essentially a caricature of his own making, which makes him almost impossible to take seriously.

The problem with speaking your mind is that it requires you almost completely disregard what other people think of you. Once you have that mindset, you will be less interested in sharing your opinion, since you don't care what they think.

 

[bssc]

I have a friend who has six children. He just had his last one at 50. He told me that he is going to be working until 70 when the last one gets out of college. I think that he is very patriotic for both having so many kids who will be supporting the trust fun as well as contributing for so long.

 

[Notmuchlonger]

I have a friend who has six children. He just had his last one at 50. He told me that he is going to be working until 70 when the last one gets out of college. I think that he is very patriotic for both having so many kids who will be supporting the trust fun as well as contributing for so long.

Wow. God bless!

 

[ziggy29]

I have a friend who has six children. He just had his last one at 50. He told me that he is going to be working until 70 when the last one gets out of college. I think that he is very patriotic for both having so many kids who will be supporting the trust fun as well as contributing for so long.

And as someone with no children, I am very patriotic for paying a lot more in taxes and using a lot fewer services despite being taxed more.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Yeah but nobody wakes you up at 5am and you've never had to deal with poopie diapers, so its a wash.

 

[barbarus]

I have a friend who has six children. He just had his last one at 50. He told me that he is going to be working until 70 when the last one gets out of college. I think that he is very patriotic for both having so many kids who will be supporting the trust fun as well as contributing for so long.

Six new consumers. He and his wife should get some sort of medal from American business.
Seriously, our system can only survive by continual expansion and that means an increasing number of consumer-units.

Whether this model is sustainable has been questioned.

 

[unclemick]

Hmmm - PacNW dude(natch) on PBS last night learned to sail from his Father - started with a beat up 25 foot sail boat at age 19 or so, NO NEST EGG!, found work wherever he landed, got a wife and they had three kids over the years raised on the boat and whenever they were ashore working/provisioning for the next leg.

Caught the last part of the program - the world is their oyster!

heh heh heh -

P.S. - technically they have been at it long enough that their pictures/mag. articles sell - soooo now they are er professional - which is good camouflage.