Reasons People Do Not Retire (Financial and Other)

So the level of freedom, flexibility, and physical and emotional security provided by money can be very significant. In this sense there is never enough. It is not about material goods. It does not matter if the money is actually spent. But I would rather be in a position to handle any financial life event rather than feel constrained.

I can totally relate to the above having 2 small children who will always be "daddy's girls". Money will never be enough and if I can hang onto work until my 50's (which is still considered very early RE), I should be able to reach FI not just for DW and I but also for my girls lifetime as well (although we would never tell them). However, deep down, I am hoping to be talked out of working past 45...... there is much to do and so little time.

In the end, it will have to be a balance between my remaining life versus theirs.
 
Live And Learn....you need to get over to the Life after Fire Forum and join the Class of 2015. I'm 50, FI and planning to RE in 2015 when I'm 52. Sounds like we are in the same boat. I just want to vest in my pension. Instead of OMY syndrome, I got 22mm syndrome (22 more months).
 
just do it

Shawn, you will land on your feet regardless of when you take the leap.

You have quite clearly learned how to live within your means and really that is all that it takes.

If you wait for all your financial ducks to be lined up "just so" then, chances are, you'll regret not taking the leap sooner. The only financial duck I bothered to line up was the debt-duck. I summarily shot it :bat: and have not used a credit card or carried debt since 2002.

I was nowhere close to your level of financial security when I realized that there were more important things in life than pleasing an employer to get a good review and subsequent pay rise or stock options or whatever and ... dare I venture to actually write it .. pleasing the DW to get ... well you know what they say, "happy wife - happy life". :flowers: mmm, cleverest myth ever conjured by a woman.

After leaving a rather hectic career as an engineer within a hi-tech company I discovered that I have a great capacity for doing very little from day to day without ever growing bored. By very little I don't mean becoming a coach potato. I simply mean choosing some project and working that one project for however long it takes to get a satisfying result. Sometimes its a household project or tied in with one of my children's current need, sometimes its a study project sometimes its pure recreation! Contrast that with working as an employee within the constraints of a shrinking budget, increasingly more products to get to market and the necessity to multi-task just to keep your head above water. I reckon it's bliss to be able to prepare a meal for the family and then all sit at the table to discuss the days affairs. Its even better when your kids willingly assist and learn how to cook and clean up after themselves in the kitchen and the house in general.

Most commentators would say that at age 39 I quit my engineering career too early however, this bothered me only a very little. It sure bothered my DW a lot. That was in 2002. I'd always been the provider and she the consumer. My goals and dreams are quite few and are the type you can realistic save toward while her appetite is for near term luxury and spontaneous pleasures. I could never take her seriously. (If you are reading between the lines then, yes, we did divorce about 8 years later in 2010, I think. :dance: Now that severance package was a real bargain!)

Here's the thing. You need to live your life. Be responsible for making yourself happy and count yourself lucky if satisfying this one, albeit selfish, appetite serendipitously makes you wealthy or your partner similarly happy. Of course if you have children (I have 3 surviving children) then you have very clear responsibilities toward them. Even for this, I do not subscribe to the "sacrifice my life to raise the children" philosophy. I reckon that the best role model you can be for your family is to show them a person who has thought carefully about what is important and then consistently set about fulfilling those prioritized needs even at the expense of other, more frivolous, demands placed upon you.

You mentioned a relative possibly needing a house. I think it is wonderful that you are in a position to write a check for her. If this is important to you then do it but if it is merely expected of you because of the net worth you have earned throughout your working life then think twice about your reasons for being so altruistic.

My preferred gift to my family is my time, my attention and whatever wisdom they might divine out of my conversations and my behavior. It is certainly not my cash or my earning potential. It's a cultural thing instilled by my parents probably. Having seen my father die at age 51, my first son die at age 2 and my mother die at age 73 (in that order) you can well imagine that I value the days in a year more than I value the dollars in the bank.

Some time in my 30's I prepared a spread sheet figuring out post-retirement expenses and so forth. The net worth that I thought I needed to retire was a little more than 10 times what I actually had when I did make the decision to at least take an extended sabbatical. (read 5 to 10 years living on savings and passive investments alone ... plus whatever income my DW decided to go out and earn) During the years since 2002 I have been extremely closely involved with my children's middle and high school years and currently university years and now have a daughter graduated law and practicing in Brisbane, a son studying sound and audio engineering in Byron Bay and a gap-year youngest son who is still crystalizing in his mind just what career he might become passionate about.

I have not fully retired. You probably won't either - you might relax at first but if you are young at heart and are mindful of your health then chances are you'll feel compelled to do something in society either for coin or for charity.

I drive a taxi a few nights a week and I have surprised myself that I am still doing so after 3 years. What I get out of that "job" is interaction with lots of interesting people. I've probably acquired more "street smarts" as well! Most of my living expenses are covered by just the tips that I receive so the majority of my income from fares is all cream. Indeed saving money is much easier when you truly know how to live within your means.

Now that my kids are young adults (I still have one to get started in college) I am shifting my focus toward a long-held dream of living aboard a 40-50 foot catamaran and cruising lots of interesting places. I have assured my family that there will be nothing left in the bank for them to inherit unless, perhaps, they can salvage the boat because I am quite certain that I will kick the proverbial bucket whilst blissfully making passage between some exotic locations!

The road has been bumpy, to be sure, but I would not have it any other way.

Good luck with whichever choice you make.
 
I wondered what you would decide. I work where you work with similar financial rewards for working one more year. And I understand exactly that you cannot duplicate your job situation....I can't either. I am about your age or a bit younger. However, I took the buy out and have been thrilled ever since I made that decision. My only fear is that my last day of work will be deferred 30 days and that I will have to work a month longer. But I do understand how hard it is to walk away from the golden handcuffs. It was a tough call to do something so out of the norm from my coworkers even though I too dislike employment that I once loved. I decided I didn't want to be the richest person in the graveyard. I also want my life back and have too many interests. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
 
My perceptive from 6 years in retirement - you are going to die, you just don't know when or how. When we are working, we don't have the time to think about what that really means. That money is finite is obvious and reinforced daily. But life is finite, too, and the only real purpose of money is to make life as enjoyable as possible while life lasts. Having a billion dollars to spend in my last year of life wouldn't make me one iota happier, but having another year of retirement to enjoy is priceless. The really hard part is recognizing when we have enough.

+1

Perhaps I am in a similar situation as the OP, except every year I work adds a relatively smaller amount ($100-$125K) towards our savings and investments.

However, while we plan for the long term, no one is guaranteed tomorrow. At a certain point in time one must decide which is more valuable - money or time. No one can tell you when that time is. A lot depends on ones own experiences and observations.

Over the last 10 years I have become acutely aware of folks whose long term plans were tragically cut short.Just a week before Memorial Day I was at a family graduation event and met the head of a law firm a nephew works for. Nice guy, mid 40's, had played sports through college and seemed in great shape. Memorial Day weekend my nephew calls me sobbing, this man was playing catch with one of his kids and suddenly collapsed and died instantly. In the last 2 years I have lost 3 co-workers my age or slightly older, all of who were eligible to retire and had the means. One was also sudden, the other two retired when they here diagnosed with serious illnesses and each lived barely a year after that. My DW has said "I'd rather you retired and us having to curb our spending, even selling the house and moving to an apartment, than be a rich widow".

So for me time has become a bigger factor. I have given so much of my time to my Megacorp, and they have paid me handsomely for it, no complaints there. But now I lean towards having control over whatever time I have left, regardless of the compensation I am giving up. Again, just my decision.
 
My perceptive from 6 years in retirement - you are going to die, you just don't know when or how. When we are working, we don't have the time to think about what that really means. That money is finite is obvious and reinforced daily. But life is finite, too, and the only real purpose of money is to make life as enjoyable as possible while life lasts. Having a billion dollars to spend in my last year of life wouldn't make me one iota happier, but having another year of retirement to enjoy is priceless. The really hard part is recognizing when we have enough.

+1
 

While I side with you, Chuck, and Travel, I have come to the belief it is all up to the individual. Some people like freedom to focus on hobbies or whatever their post work interests are. But, making money can be a hobby in an of itself too. As long as the person knows the trade offs involved, they can be just as happy working and stacking dollars, as I am enjoying doing nothing but living a middle class life of leisure without work.
 
I wasn't emotionally ready for the change, and I felt very lost following my last day at work. I felt like the rest of the world was carrying on with their trip and I was getting off the bus to watch from behind in the dust.

This comment resonates with me more than anything else in this (excellent) thread. But my feelings are the exact opposite: It's when I'm sitting in the office that I feel that the rest of the world is carrying on, and I'm sitting on the sidelines watching, wishing I could be doing what they are doing. The office is lifeless, but there's a lot of life to be lived outside of the office.
 
Live And Learn....you need to get over to the Life after Fire Forum and join the Class of 2015. I'm 50, FI and planning to RE in 2015 when I'm 52. Sounds like we are in the same boat. I just want to vest in my pension. Instead of OMY syndrome, I got 22mm syndrome (22 more months).

Well .... it looks as if that other job is about to fall through so I may be retiring in 2013 after all. My life feels like a low key soap opera right now. I should know more in the next few weeks but right now I have a foot in each door (2013 and 2015).

I SO COMPLETELY understand Shawn's dilemma, although I am borderline FI and Shawn apparently is very FI (is that even a term) ? Unretiring can be difficult (but not always). Being able to afford something really nice (even if you'd never really buy it in reality) is very nice feeling. Have a vet emergency and saying "do it !" to the doc, rather than "OMG I don't know - how much will it cost ?" is a VERY good feeling. In Shawn's shoes I'd probably take the buy out since I could probably spend alot more than I'd ever want to anyway, and still be able to handle alot of those "what ifs" (like Mom's house).

BUT, Shawn, as others have said to me - if the decision doesn't come easy, then you probably should wait until you are emotionally ready. Keep reading the forum - folks here have a way of making us feel better about the scary ER possibility !
 
An analogy would be a person building a house when young, living in and improving the house for 35-40 years, and then selling it. Their life is inside the house. It will be difficult to sell, even if the selling price is very good.

Let me offer a different analogy: You’ve spent 35-40 years building a house you haven’t lived in. Retirement will provide you with the opportunity to finally furnish and enjoy that home you’ve worked so long on.

Thanks for the thought-provoking post. In fact, I’ve been thinking about it for days. For what it’s worth, here are my ideas.

There are hidden currents here...

You know how a couple might go to a counselor thinking that the issue is X but it’s obvious to the counselor from day one that the issue is actually Y and her task is to make the couple come to that awareness? I’m going to play counselor and not necessarily take everything you’ve said at face value.

Judging by your evident thoughtfulness and self-knowledge, I think you realize there might be hidden motivations to uncover. You’re highly introspective -- it goes hand in hand with being introverted, which most early retirees are.

At first glance, the long list of reasons you give for staying in a job seems like you’re trying to convince yourself out of taking the buyout and retiring now, particularly since you say you’re hesitating. However, a careful reading of each reason clearly shows that you’re making the best case possible for dismissing each one.

You're a giver...

You indicate you enjoy the idea that you could spend a substantial amount of money to help others, like your mom and pets. I suspect you’re a “giver” personality type (e.g., in the Enneagram personality system). That explains your concern about your co-workers. But they’ll be fine without you. In my years in business I’ve seen how seemingly the most irreplaceable individual is ultimately quite replaceable. Your co-workers are responsible for their own lives and careers, and whatever discomfort they experience at your departure might actually be necessary for their own growth.

As a “giver” you likely reject any actions that might seem selfish and contrary to your self-image. But there are hints in your posts that you might be susceptible to some consumerism (the McMansion reference, for one). No judgment here, but none of this aligns with the $15,000 in expenses you mention.

Consider a new budget that will excite you...

I think you should forget the idea of a $15,000 budget, because that’s helping to dampen your retirement enthusiasm. Instead, determine a more generous budget, one that it would excite you to have in retirement. Check FireCalc. I suspect you’d still have a 100% success rate with your new budget – even if you lost 50% or more of your savings in a stock market drop – particularly since you have a COLA’d pension (you lucky dog).

You are making a fantastic salary and that can be hard to give up (I make a lot less than you and still wonder about that too). However, remember that once you get to a certain amount of savings – and you’re well past it – it’s appreciation and income that make the difference and your salary plays a much lesser role. You could pay for your mom’s house with only a little portfolio appreciation.

I’m not a follower of the bucket system, but it might work best in your case, going by how your mind appears to work. Since the expenditures you want to be able to do are large, you could set aside a few million for that purpose and consider the rest your actual income-generating portfolio.

But I'm not a financial planner -- only you can decide what works for you.

Retirement lets you give like never before...

If you are in fact a “giver,” keep in mind that retirement opens up numerous opportunities to give more than you’ve ever given before. Does that not excite you?

Can't wait to hear what you end up deciding, Shawn.
 
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I've been pondering fully retiring for a couple of months. I've been semi-retired going to the office once or twice a week for 3 years. As I get closer I keep thinking about why people don't retire and I know that some of the things here don't apply to me. I'm not at all worried about what I'll during retirement, for example. I have plenty of things I want to do.

So for me it is 3 things:

1. Do I have enough? Obviously, working would give me more but do I have enough now. I ran Firecalc (again) last night. I used some fairly unfavorable numbers and I come out fine with room to cut. Now, all of this is based upon DH and I receiving SS. DH is already on SS and I'm 59 so I think it is reasonable to think we will. We could handle some cuts as long as they weren't more than, say, 50% (we could handle more than that but wouldn't want is a better way to put it). So reasonably, while I could clearly have more by working longer, we have a long.

2. Do I enjoy the work? I don't really love it, but I haven't hated it for the past 3 years. I did a part-time deal 3 years ago which left me with the parts of my job that I like the best. There are some somewhat onerous things about the work based upon a long commute (I spend 3 hours in the car on work days) and on some of the scheduling (with work bleeding into more days than I want it to even when I'm home -- I get paid for it well but still...) I think there is a decent chance I could get an agreement for me to work solely from home and could change some of work so I only had to do work on very limited days. But, the bottom line I realized is that I just don't want to do what I'm doing any more. I'm just of done with this profession and don't want to do it any more.

3. Fear of finality and not being able to handle the unexpected. I realized that this is the real reason I drag my feet. I've had an open invitation the last 3 years to return to work full-time. I always knew that if the investments went south or something bad happened I could go back. And, if expenses were higher than anticipated (we still have adolescents at home) then I could always work a few more hours on my part-time basis and cover them. Once I quit, that isn't a realistic option any more. Sure I could probably find a part-time job but not at the $113 an hour that I make now. Still, it isn't so much that I need that $113 an hour but that keeping this job keeps my toes in the water to go back. It is a real security blanket. To quit is scary since that seems so final and I have no flexibility if something happens.

On the other hand, I know that really isn't true. I've run various budgets. DH and I could make some changes and live on much less money than we spend now. We have even thought about what we would do if we suddenly had to live on half as much money. So we know it could be done. And one or both of us could probably get a part-time low paid job to bridge any gap. So there are options out there. It is just that continuing to work part-time is an easy option in that I am well paid for not much work and I have free rein to increase my level of work.

Nonetheless (unless I change my mind) I am giving notice next week.
 
Shawn: What did you end up doing?
 
Shawn: What did you end up doing?

I decided to decline the buyout offer meaning that I did not retire last week. I was going to post about this but wanted to first let my thoughts settle (introvert thing).

Initially, I signed up for the buyout / retirement but had the option to decline late in the process. I waited until the last 30 minutes to decide. It was a difficult decision but not an agonizing decision. It probably would have been OK either way. Sort of like, "should I pay off my mortgage now or invest the money instead." Since I was conflicted, I decided to retain the status quo and keep working. That was the default decision. I can always retire "tomorrow" but I would not have been able to return to my job if I retired and had subsequent regrets.

I think 75% of my decision was financial in the sense that the majority of my thinking was based on financial considerations / number crunching. The buyout offer itself was modest at only 5 months of pay. It's complicated, but due to the way my pension increases in value and the fact that I can use my 2 1/2 months of accumulated vacation to add to my service credit and age factor by retiring in a normal manner (not true with the buyout), I will "break even" in about 2 months. So essentially, I will work for free for two months and then my financial net worth will resume its $400K/yr increase (salary plus pension). Most important to me is the growing pension value. While anything can happen, I like the guarantee of steady income. But hopefully I will not work for even one more year.

Another significant consideration was that I was not mentally (and logistically) prepared for such a rapid departure from the workplace. This seems odd since I had been waiting for the buyout for many months. But it still seemed to arrive quickly, with limited time to prepare and decide. So tentatively, I plan to retire next February. This will give me more time to create the concept of finality. February is an optimal month for me to retire and my pension payout will grow by about $10K/yr due to the extra months of work. Also, I want to enjoy the next several months knowing that retirement is eminent. Unfortunately, I use the word tentatively. I hope that OMY syndrome does not show its ugly head at the beginning of next year.

Also, my departure would have had significant impact on my work area. This is especially true considering all the federal budget issues, but in the opposite sense. My work area actually has "too much" money. My continued employment helps spend it. This is important as we close out the federal fiscal year (September 30). If we do not spend the money this year it is likely that we will get less of it next year. Also, I am PI (Principal Investigator) on a few pending proposals. Support decisions have yet to be finalized but it is likely that these proposals will be funded. This status would be in jeopardy if there was a sudden change in the PI. Overall, this is about $1M of potential impact. Not huge by government standards, but not trivial either.

Last Thursday was the last day of work at my employer for those people who accepted the buyout (about 7-8% of employees accepted the offer). It was a little difficult watching these people pack up and leave knowing that I could have been one of them. They all seemed so gleeful. But there were no major regrets on my part. Minor ones, yes, but not major ones.

I really appreciate all the comments in this thread. They were very helpful. Some were "right on the money." I wish I could take the time to thank everyone personally, but some of us poor suckers still have a job to do.
 
Another significant consideration was that I was not mentally (and logistically) prepared for such a rapid departure from the workplace. This seems odd since I had been waiting for the buyout for many months. But it still seemed to arrive quickly, with limited time to prepare and decide. So tentatively, I plan to retire next February. This will give me more time to create the concept of finality.

As somebody who is usually a bit rattled by unexpected sudden major changes, I can relate to your wanting some time to adjust and prepare. Besides, February is just 8 months away.
 
You shouldn't be surprised when you get little sympathy from us on the above statement....

Well, I hope you took it for the sarcasm it was (complaining about work when I gave up a "perfect" opportunity to retire).
 
Retirement has been the happiest years of my life. I hope that you have a similar experience with it.
 
Hi Shawn. I've gone through the same process as you, and I am now negotiating a work from home arrangement. If I get it, I will continue working. I've read on the board "if it doesn't feel right, don't do it". In your situation, with many times over the income you need, I would have probably retired - but the real point is, if it doesn't feel "right" to YOU, then you made the best decision for yourself. I think you and I will have several days of kicking ourselves in the behinds when we have a bad day at work, but I'd rather kick myself over that then stay awake at night because I didn't budget enough for one (non-discretionary) thing or another.

When the time is right you'll know it.
 
Read the thread with great interest, particularly since I'm in a somewhat similar position. Work needs me at least for a year or two, I think, although I will qualify for ER in about 12 months. And another year or two will help the numbers; it's not nearly as much as a slam dunk as your situation.

I have invested more than two decades in the increased success of my workplace and have concerns shorter-term about my co-workers. Yes, it would survive my retirement or death, to be sure, all organizations must. And the stress and burn-out are not to be dismissed, yet the attraction of living a stress-free retirement (however much I may dislike stress) is not necessarily attractive, although stress can be concocted. Part-time work would be ideal but not easily obtained.
And the high amount of reimbursement you have and the pay-back period of the buy-out makes it even tougher, as you note. After working for almost 25 years in this organization, another year--to me--seems trivial, if I think I can make a difference. If not, it would be different. My wife is going through the same dilemma, with a higher reimbursement (but considerably less satisfaction in what she contributes); I've convinced her to hang on for a year and then bail, since the success numbers go up measurably after only a year, particularly since we want to move to the coast where our children have located and she can probably locate a decent job that will further improve the numbers, measurably.

Good luck to you; your post has been very interesting and hit the nail on the head.

To me, the investment is in the workplace, which is non-profit, which probably won't change the perspective of most here. But working there is a calling, not exactly subject to ROI analyses, so severance is fraught with difficulty. I may continue to work another year or two while my wife goes West, if she finds a job on the Coast.




I decided to decline the buyout offer meaning that I did not retire last week. I was going to post about this but wanted to first let my thoughts settle (introvert thing).

Initially, I signed up for the buyout / retirement but had the option to decline late in the process. I waited until the last 30 minutes to decide. It was a difficult decision but not an agonizing decision. It probably would have been OK either way. Sort of like, "should I pay off my mortgage now or invest the money instead." Since I was conflicted, I decided to retain the status quo and keep working. That was the default decision. I can always retire "tomorrow" but I would not have been able to return to my job if I retired and had subsequent regrets.

I think 75% of my decision was financial in the sense that the majority of my thinking was based on financial considerations / number crunching. The buyout offer itself was modest at only 5 months of pay. It's complicated, but due to the way my pension increases in value and the fact that I can use my 2 1/2 months of accumulated vacation to add to my service credit and age factor by retiring in a normal manner (not true with the buyout), I will "break even" in about 2 months. So essentially, I will work for free for two months and then my financial net worth will resume its $400K/yr increase (salary plus pension). Most important to me is the growing pension value. While anything can happen, I like the guarantee of steady income. But hopefully I will not work for even one more year.

Another significant consideration was that I was not mentally (and logistically) prepared for such a rapid departure from the workplace. This seems odd since I had been waiting for the buyout for many months. But it still seemed to arrive quickly, with limited time to prepare and decide. So tentatively, I plan to retire next February. This will give me more time to create the concept of finality. February is an optimal month for me to retire and my pension payout will grow by about $10K/yr due to the extra months of work. Also, I want to enjoy the next several months knowing that retirement is eminent. Unfortunately, I use the word tentatively. I hope that OMY syndrome does not show its ugly head at the beginning of next year.

Also, my departure would have had significant impact on my work area. This is especially true considering all the federal budget issues, but in the opposite sense. My work area actually has "too much" money. My continued employment helps spend it. This is important as we close out the federal fiscal year (September 30). If we do not spend the money this year it is likely that we will get less of it next year. Also, I am PI (Principal Investigator) on a few pending proposals. Support decisions have yet to be finalized but it is likely that these proposals will be funded. This status would be in jeopardy if there was a sudden change in the PI. Overall, this is about $1M of potential impact. Not huge by government standards, but not trivial either.

Last Thursday was the last day of work at my employer for those people who accepted the buyout (about 7-8% of employees accepted the offer). It was a little difficult watching these people pack up and leave knowing that I could have been one of them. They all seemed so gleeful. But there were no major regrets on my part. Minor ones, yes, but not major ones.

I really appreciate all the comments in this thread. They were very helpful. Some were "right on the money." I wish I could take the time to thank everyone personally, but some of us poor suckers still have a job to do.
 
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