Reek of a scam

[aja8888]

American Greed is a great show. Do they have episodes on their Web site? You may be able to find one with a similar scam.

Someone had suggested that she invest a small amount (something you could afford to lose), but a typical pattern is that someone invests $10,000 or so, they keep getting statements showing the increasing balance in their account (or they may even get checks) and after a few months of steady returns they're s darn happy they invest their entire savings. If she makes a small initial investment it may appear to do very well and then she'll want to invest more. Better not to start.

We watch on (yuk!) cable, but it is watchable on Hulu and CNBC's site:

CNBC - Watch Full Episodes | CNBC | American Greed

 

[haha]

. I always thought I could fix the marriage. Then one day she said something very innocent to me, but that day I realized it could never be fixed. Then my question was what do I do now? Have you hit that point yet? Only you can decide.

Sounds very familiar. I was so sad, and trying so hard to make things better. It was not her, it was the two of us at that point in our lives. I read a book by some divorced guy, I can't remember its name. He said it's a big world, don't struggle with pushing rocks you don't have to push. Keep your mouth shut and your ears open, don't give out alarm signals but don't be a Chamberlain.

Ha

 

[Katiek]

You mention that your wife is generally financial responsible, and it seems that she ha an interest in financial stuff, although it's going in a bad direction.

Would she be interested in spending some time working on joint financial goals with you? Establishing an amount to be invested in retirement plans and talking with a financial advisor on how to invest those amounts. Then, if there is extra and she wants to try some MLM, encourage her and see how it works out. Have some portion of your funds dedicated to more discretionary investment.

But it also sounds like some of your differences are personality driven, and maybe there are things you can encourage her to do together that will help satisfy some of her social needs in a more positive outlet (a hiking group, art classes, local not for profits etc,)

Obviously I don't know you or her, so I'm just throwing out some ideas for you to consider.

 

[karen1972]

Unfortunately, you may already be headed for divorce. I find many of the women that want to get into MLMs are because they are unhappy with their home life (ie. either my husband is too controlling and I want some of my own money..or if I can become self sufficient.. I can leave him)... I hear the latter on social media ALL the time.

Question: Do you control all the money? Do you involve her in any of the investment decisions? Does she have her own money to spend as she wishes? ie reading your question I'm guessing maybe not ie so she may feel like you have all the control and maybe don't trust her or don't think her capable. something that may have started as just her not being interested could over time have become a bigger problem.

As for the MLMs, seriously, every job you've ever had is a Ponzi scheme in some way.. ie you work for a manager, who works for a manager, who eventually works for the owner.. There are plenty of MLMs that only cost $50 to join... and the person above them doesn't get that much of your profit.. moreover there are many that you can rank above the person that brought you in which are better ones to be in. You get together with your friends, you meet new people, and if you make $500 extra bucks to go shopping with .. great. Also many MLMs are smart and cater to the things their husbands won't buy them..
1) a nice vacation to Hawaii or tropics
2) jewelry
3) a new car (usually leased for them for a year..lexus, Mercedes, etc)

So she can either earn it or you can buy it for her...

Obviously the Chinese thing is very scary and depending on what type of money your talking about you may have to say no...but I'd suggest you come up with other suggestions of where she can go with it.. ie honey if you want to invest.. maybe you can go to these classes, join an investment club locally.. we can talk to the advisor.. etc.

 

[ls99]

As I recall rule one of being in deep hole is stop digging. While OP cited cost of divorce as a deterrent, my initial reaction was still divorce with with a question mark. Reading through again I would just change the question mark to an exclamation mark.

 

[Iameasy]

I learned much from the female voices in the thread. Very interesting. Gfs/wives are good at making up their mind about the relationship without your input.

 

[aja8888]

I learned much from the female voices in the thread. Very interesting. Gfs/wives are good at making up their mind about the relationship without your input.

Yes, it's important to monitor social media as that's where all the dirt comes out!

 

[Iameasy]

Yes, it's important to monitor social media as that's where all the dirt comes out!

Speaking from experience?
Her MLM friends are probably cleaning my clock there.

 

[aja8888]

Speaking from experience?
Her MLM friends are probably cleaning my clock there.

No, from Post #29!

 

[haha]

I learned much from the female voices in the thread. Very interesting. Gfs/wives are good at making up their mind about the relationship without your input.

They have all the input they want, and them some. She thinks, "do I want to believe him, or my lying eyes?". We men are famously clueless at how our crap is going down.

I am always amazed at the tight control that some wives are said to put up with. All women get hit on, so it may be easy for her to believe that some other man will understand and value her more, and not be a live in cop or comptroller.

Get smart now, or get sorry later!

Ha

 

[braumeister]

Some lessons are expensive. A divorce cost more.

Short term, maybe.
Long term, probably not.
But please don't rely on random internet advice. Go to a professional.

 

[LOL!]

Perhaps use this as an opportunity to go visit China on vacation and check it out.

 

[Debinnov a]

Wow, tough crowd. If my husband was trying to spend "our" hard earned money on MLM schemes, one after the other, I would be doing everything I could to shut him down. Some people chase rainbows and are always just "the next deal away" from success, which rarely comes.

Sounds like you two might be too different in your financial views - which may make for constant battles.

Also, it sounds like you have given in to her wishes on some fronts, i.e. the new car, larger home than needed, the pool, etc., so hopefully this is not a case of your being too "one way".

The China thing scares me. Wondering if she does participate and there is a loss, would she learn from that? Or just look for the next great "opportunity"?


Sent from my KFTHWA using Tapatalk HD

 

[BellBarbara]

Note to self: stop reading how many husbands think divorcing is easier than figuring out how to make their wives feel included in financial decisions. Just wow.

Super happy I never let my hub take it all over like he wanted. Second marriage, I insisted on my own investments and accounts. 11 years later we combined everything and do it all jointly.

Sounds like your wife is bored since you say she is financially responsible normally.

 

[Travelwanted]

Wow, tough situation.

A suggestion: tell her you are willing to be open-minded if you can run the investment by an attorney who has a background in this stuff. Yes, the attorney may be expensive, but if they are telling her to RUN AWAY, it will save you $$$$ and you don't have to be the bad guy.

 

[Texas Proud]

Note to self: stop reading how many husbands think divorcing is easier than figuring out how to make their wives feel included in financial decisions. Just wow.

Super happy I never let my hub take it all over like he wanted. Second marriage, I insisted on my own investments and accounts. 11 years later we combined everything and do it all jointly.

Sounds like your wife is bored since you say she is financially responsible normally.

Some have the opposite problem.... where DW does not want to know anything about financial decisions... except for spending money of course... I keep telling her she needs to know etc. etc.... and all she says is 'you take care of it'....


Then again, she has ZERO knowledge of investing... so in the end it is better that I do it....

 

[harley]

Note to self: stop reading how many husbands think divorcing is easier than figuring out how to make their wives feel included in financial decisions. Just wow.

Super happy I never let my hub take it all over like he wanted. Second marriage, I insisted on my own investments and accounts. 11 years later we combined everything and do it all jointly.

Sounds like your wife is bored since you say she is financially responsible normally.

Reading between the lines, sounds like mostly divorced guys going that route. Hard not to react when someone pokes that big festering wound.

 

[jon-nyc]

Wow, tough situation.

A suggestion: tell her you are willing to be open-minded if you can run the investment by an attorney who has a background in this stuff. Yes, the attorney may be expensive, but if they are telling her to RUN AWAY, it will save you $$$$ and you don't have to be the bad guy.

Good suggestion.

 

[kcowan]

Sounds like a lot of good advice here. DW#1 wanted to spend too much time with her girlfriends. Often doing strange investments. Never large enough to break us but all ending up as failures.

I toughed it out for 10 years for the kids, then pulled the pin. All my friends said I was crazy and should have an affair instead. I ended up with DW#2 who had been abused mentally for years. We are still together 20 years later and our equity position is almost 50-50.

There is another life after your current one and I sense that your situation has gone beyond saving. I would suggest a marriage counselor before the financial advisor. Make sure it is not a rent-seeker but a true counselor. (Dr Phil?)

 

[PhrugalPhan]

Note to self: stop reading how many husbands think divorcing is easier than figuring out how to make their wives feel included in financial decisions. Just wow.

As pointed out, there are lots of wives that don't want to deal with finances. My ex was that way, she didn't even want to know math (I got to hear many times "I don't need to know math. Why should I care to learn?"). There are many men (and women too) that are forced to be the family "bad guy" regarding finances. Now my new GF is happy to learn finances from me and is very appreciative - its a pleasant change.

 

[haha]

Reading between the lines, sounds like mostly divorced guys going that route. Hard not to react when someone pokes that big festering wound.

That may be an explanation. But it is also true that once you have endured a divorce, you realize that there is meaning in the phrase "the enemy in your bed."

If I were young I would still marry, because I like to have a family. But I would also realize that this is probably the biggest financial hazard that I would likely ever encounter.

Once out of that marriage, no repeats. Men think that they gain lot of loyalty if they marry, and sometimes this is true.

Ha

 

[EastWest Gal]

DH and I got into and out of the granddaddy of them all MLMs, Sc**w*y, in the mid 90s. Lost some friends along the way, as well as $$. With the Internet, we did some real research into as well as the company's own numbers and realized what a bad deal it was. We wrote our up line a detailed letter, joined and eventually ran a a Yahoo group for several years, and probably saved others from our fate. We also ended up on a national TV show speaking against the scheme.

I haven't had time to read the info about these Chinese investment schemes, but in my book, anything from China or India is designed solely to part Americans from their dollars in return for nothing.

To the OP: wanting to get into such a scheme is a sign of dissatisfaction with time spent working or income or sense of financial security. I was burned out at that point in my life. IMO, women value financial security and are willing to go to great lengths, including working in professions they no longer enjoy (me), marry wealthy but obnoxious or old men (Hugh Hefner's recent wife/wives--whatever) for security.

So I'm guessing OP's wife might be looking for something along those lines. MLM companies are adept at destroying marriages and families preying on this very human need to have a sense of security and belonging.

So, I've been there, done that. Find out what she is looking for. The sharks are preying on her unfilled need. Try to find out what that is and you've got a better chance of steering her clear. Who knows, these thieves may have stealing everything through identity theft as their agenda. You never know.

Since FI in ~2013, and RE this year, I have zero interest in even buying a lottery ticket. Would have been FI sooner if it weren't for Sc****y.

OP stand your ground, be careful, and I wish you success in this.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[AllDone]

Ditto what EastWestGal said. Before we retired, we would spend $5 on a lottery ticket every time we got anxious about work. We stopped that as soon as we realized that we could afford to retire and it was just a matter of waiting out a few payoffs. Your wife is probably feeling anxious about retirement and finances, so go see a counselor -- financial, if not marriage.

Additionally, if she's a computer engineer, she's not innumerate. My DH means well, but he tends to keep the investment and financial data to himself. He shares it without a problem, if I ask, but only if I ask. Are you doing the same thing? He is more conservative in his approach, too, which frustrates me (too darn much cash!), but it helped to drag him to a financial advisor.

I think the idea about checking with the postmaster about the Chinese scam was an excellent suggestion.

 

[dand76]

OP, tough situation with many good suggestions so far. As I read thru the posts I began to wonder what if you could put together some sort of agreement or 'contract' that you both would sign and adhere to. Something that would limit each spouses liability to the other spouse's financial actions. Something that would be binding should a divorce become the inevitable end solution. Something like a pre-nuptial agreement except after the wedding. A post-nuptial agreement. I googled it and surprise, surprise, there really is such a thing.

I'm just an old IT guy so know nothing about any of the legalities of this. I began wondering what I might include in this agreement. Maybe things like:
1) n % of each spouse's portfolio is untouchable by the other spouse should the marriage dissolve.
2) Spouse #1 agrees not to retire until his portion of the portfolio reaches at least $nnn (specified dollar amount).
3) Spouse #2 agrees not to retire until her portion of the portfolio reaches at least $nnn (specified dollar amount).

If one spouse sees their portfolio value decreasing which will increase the number of years that will need to be worked and their partner's portfolio is increasing and gaining ground on that retirement date then maybe a lesson will be learned.

As far as investing goes I had my head buried in the sand up until 3 years ago at age 54. It started to dawn on me that I was getting closer to retirement and I had no clue if I was invested properly or how much I needed to pull the plug. So, over the past 3 years I’ve been reading investment books which were suggested by the bogleheads website as well as learning from their forum as well as great info from this one. Point here is that you’ve said that “The problem is she did not have hardly any interest in investing her money until recently” which I’m assuming means little or no investing knowledge. For myself, I thought how can I make intelligent investing decisions if I have no knowledge about investing? It's like thinking I could write quality software code without knowing the programming language. Not possible.

Thanks to modern medicine my DW is down to just a couple personalities, which is manageable . I’m working at getting better at our conversations so that I don’t trigger the 12 year olds appearance. It can be difficult to reason with a pre-teen girl . May or may not apply to your situation but how you word your conversation can help prevent putting the other person on the defensive.

Good luck!
DanD76

 

[48Fire]

A coworker came to me after his wife of 3 months spent $25,000 on Shirley McLain seminars back in early 90's. He asked me, "What should I do?". I told him to cut his losses. He divorced shortly after that. Have some heart to heart discussions, but if that doesn't work, it could get worse. Good luck!