Ridiculed for being cheap??

[ziggy29]

So, how we spend our money is really our business. It's all a matter of priority. Some save maximum, to get out of the rat race ASAP. Some, like myself, started to save for financial security, to be able to sleep at night during crises like this. Up until a few years ago, when I became burnt-out with my work, I never thought I would retire early.

Definitely.

I've always said there is a difference between LBYM and LAFAPBYM (Living As Far As Possible Below Your Means). The former doesn't have to imply the latter.

Saving for a secure future is critical, IMO, and I think just about all of us [-]compulsive[/-] active retirement savers would agree with that. However, we don't KNOW we'll be around to enjoy the tomorrow we're saving for. We DO know, on the other hand, that we are here today. So some "living for today," reasonable budget permitting, is worthwhile and adds enjoyment to life.

And if that means I'm "reckless" or "wasteful" because it means putting (say) $2,000 a month instead of $2,500 a month away in savings and retirement accounts, so be it. If that means I'm "wasting" $500 a month, well, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it ("royal", generic you). But it adds enough to our enjoyment and quality of life today that I don't consider it wasted.

I am a strong LBYMer, but I have no desire to LAFAPBYM. I'm not into complete austerity and self-deprivation if I don't have to. Of course, if you derive pleasure from LAFAPBYM because you get joy from watching your savings deposits grow as rapidly as possible, more power to you -- but even if most of us share a general sense of frugality, we're not all wired to pursue it to the same degree.

 

[ChrisC]

I don't think I could look another person in the eye and tell them it was not fair that they had a few more bucks than me. Rather than thinking "not fair", I am usually just in awe, and try to learn what I can from them.

R

My siblings are very much like yours when it comes to spending and financial responsibility. And I'm sure they resent me for having the good fortune and work ethic that has made our stations of life quite different. However, it took me a long, long time, with lots of patience, empathy and understanding to agree with them when they made the claim, like your siblings, that it's not fair that I'm financially at a much better place than them.

I've lost friends and have been estranged from my siblings and other family members over the years because, quite frankly, our sense of fairness was different over particular issues. Sometimes the sense of fairness that others have is quite puzzling to me, but I've learned to respect that sense, as well, and its made me more understanding and less hostile to others who might take a different view of what's fair about particular issues or incidents.

Your sense of a "reverse crab mentality" was quite interesting to me. Not sure I'd call it that. Your siblings, like mine, just appear to be arrested in their financial development and one of them appears very immature to gloat about her irresponsibility, something which I have seen when people believe "they are sticking it to the man."

 

[Walt34]

I think crab mentality works the other way too. My sis and bro are both in very bad financial shape...sis declared bankruptcy last year. They seem to want everything that I have, that I worked hard, 12-15 hours a day for a long time to save for, and paid hard earned cash for the few toys that I do have.

Apparently most families have a few like that. A nephew has been foreclosed upon years ago, evicted from a rental house for non-payment, but drives a Lincoln Navigator. A BIL has a nice house, three-car garage, takes frequent trips to resorts, but when FIL couldn't pay his property taxes, who were the only ones who could come up with $3k in cash in one day? Us, of course.

 

[slimm]

OMGosh, it's so very simple.....live within (or below) your means and be mindful (not miserly). Save, save, save & enjoy the fruits of your labor, and be thankful. I have endured the comments re: my frugality from friends and family for many years and it made me defensive. Now, I just smile like the cheshire cat. It's interesting when people ask me for budgeting (happy to oblige) or investing (nope) advice. Get off your dang duff, turn off the TV, roll up your sleeves, and "get after it". And oh yeah, quit buying a bunch of needless/useless "crap", try cooking from scratch once in awhile, and drive an economical vehicle without a car payment. Regarding the house - try a fixer (with good bones) in a nice neighborhood. Sure it's hard, but the rewards are truly amazing.
p.s. My brother has made fun of me for years - he who lives in a 1mil+ house w/ guest house, pool, pool house, stables, has a lake house, ski boat, show horses, Lexus, Volvo, Ford SUV, Ford 4 door pickup truck
etc. Anyway, he mentioned to me at Thanksgiving dinner, "I am so proud of you...you are amazing". H'mmmmm. Nice to receive kudos from a younger sibling!

THE MILLIONAIRE NEXT DOOR, is my favorite book, go figure.
-----------------------------

 

[barbarus]

Sometimes the sense of fairness that others have is quite puzzling to me, but I've learned to respect that sense, as well, and its made me more understanding and less hostile to others who might take a different view of what's fair about particular issues or incidents.

I find this very interesting Chris.
Could you go into a bit more detail on the opposing view of fairness you have encountered?

 

[kyounge1956]

It sounds like your friend may be suffering from "crab mentality".

I think this is right on the money. I believe most spendthrifts know that it isn't wise to live that way, but find themselves unable to discipline themselves and control their childish impulses. Pressuring their friends and relatives to roll in the same poop with them makes them feel better about their bad behavior in a "misery loves company" sort of way.

Nah, it ain't on the money, at all to me. And I bet this isn't really close to understanding the biting remarks the OP is receiving from her friend. In fact, I kinda think this might be a case where the tone of the message is actually causing the OP more grief than the content of the message.

The OP has a friend who wants the OP to spend more and ridicules the OP for being frugal. This is hardly a case of pulling the OP down to a life of misery. In fact, her friend mistakenly believes that the OP is a cheapskate and needs to be extravagant to enjoy life. Her friend does not appear to want to harm the OP, at all, except perhaps in the tone that her message is being conveyed. (snip)

Someone with a crab mentality, to me, is like someone who displays Schadenfreude,(snip)

Two phrases from the Wikipedia article IMO best describe "crab mentality":
"any behavior inhibiting the free actions of another" and “we all like to see our friends get ahead, but not too far ahead.” Crabs don't pull each other back into the bucket out of spite or Schadenfreude—I don't think the crustacean mind has the capacity for that kind of motive. And just as the crabs are not conscious that pulling each other down guarantees that they're all going to die, I think a lot of people who behave like crabs in a bucket do so without ever consciously thinking about why they do it or the likely results.

I imagine the friend might be shocked at the idea that she could be dragging the OP down, but if she succeeds in ridiculing the OP into abandoning those responsible spending habits, that's exactly what she will have done. Maybe the friend doesn't want to harm the OP, but there does seem to me to be a (possibly subconscious) element of wanting to control the OP—trying to get her to act the way the friend wants her to act and to enjoy what the friend enjoys, rather than allow OP to decide for herself what she will do and what is most likely to contribute to her happiness.

 

[RonBoyd]

I try not to print a lot and have used the PDF printing for many years, it is easy on the Mac and I tend not to loose files on the computer as fast as on my desk. I never liked using the back of used pages to print on it seemed to increase jams and often the reverse side was a distraction.

I always buy printers that handle duplex printing and I use FinePrint. This combination saves an incredible amount of paper.

 

[TromboneAl]

I always buy printers that handle duplex printing and I use FinePrint. This combination saves an incredible amount of paper.

I was instantly interested in FinePrint, but at $49.95 I figure it would have to save me 1,665 page prints to make financial sense (figuring 3 cents per page). Perhaps there's some free software that does the same thing.

 

[HFWR]

I rarely feel the need to print anything, and when I do, I use el cheapo paper, and print using "draft" mode to save ink.

 

[ChrisC]

Two phrases from the Wikipedia article IMO best describe "crab mentality":
"any behavior inhibiting the free actions of another" and “we all like to see our friends get ahead, but not too far ahead.” Crabs don't pull each other back into the bucket out of spite or Schadenfreude—I don't think the crustacean mind has the capacity for that kind of motive. And just as the crabs are not conscious that pulling each other down guarantees that they're all going to die, I think a lot of people who behave like crabs in a bucket do so without ever consciously thinking about why they do it or the likely results.

I imagine the friend might be shocked at the idea that she could be dragging the OP down, but if she succeeds in ridiculing the OP into abandoning those responsible spending habits, that's exactly what she will have done. Maybe the friend doesn't want to harm the OP, but there does seem to me to be a (possibly subconscious) element of wanting to control the OP—trying to get her to act the way the friend wants her to act and to enjoy what the friend enjoys, rather than allow OP to decide for herself what she will do and what is most likely to contribute to her happiness.

Well, I don't fully agree with Wikipedia on the concept of crabs in the barrel. I think that crabs in the barrel, from my vantage point, suggests motive and intent to harm another or upgrade your own worth at the expense of others. And my understanding of it approximates the thinking here in the first item I found from a google search: Sep 04 SuccEzine-Crabs in the Barrel Part I

I don't get the sense that the OP's friend is intending to harm the OP or is trying to upgrade her worth at the expense of the OP. The OP's friend wants her to spend more on things or perhaps even berates her as being a tightwad -- things that I have affectionately and without ridicule told my tightwad friends -- surely not actions that will result in financial ruin or that are acts of financial irresponsibility in many cases!

 

[ChrisC]

I find this very interesting Chris.
Could you go into a bit more detail on the opposing view of fairness you have encountered?

Consider this story, where something similar like this has happened to me where you have different views on how to split the pie of new found wealth:Cash found in wall a nightmare | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press.

And there are so many family tales of woe that are simply based on different views of fairness, like whether someone gets a sentimental piece of furniture, tools or equipment upon the loss of a loved one.

 

[RonBoyd]

I was instantly interested in FinePrint, but at $49.95 I figure it would have to save me 1,665 page prints to make financial sense (figuring 3 cents per page). Perhaps there's some free software that does the same thing.

How many pages in a ream? I use up a couple three cases of paper a year. Anyway, FinePrint has some other useful aspects also -- print selected pages, for example.

 

[kyounge1956]

Well, I don't fully agree with Wikipedia on the concept of crabs in the barrel. I think that crabs in the barrel, from my vantage point, suggests motive and intent to harm another or upgrade your own worth at the expense of others. And my understanding of it approximates the thinking here in the first item I found from a google search: Sep 04 SuccEzine-Crabs in the Barrel Part I

I don't get the sense that the OP's friend is intending to harm the OP or is trying to upgrade her worth at the expense of the OP. The OP's friend wants her to spend more on things or perhaps even berates her as being a tightwad -- things that I have affectionately and without ridicule told my tightwad friends -- surely not actions that will result in financial ruin or that are acts of financial irresponsibility in many cases!

That may be your intention and may come across to your friends the way you intend, but it doesn't match how tmm (the OP) describes her friend—tmm says that the friend uses a ridiculing tone and that she finds it irritating. That doesn't sound like affectionate ribbing to me.

Tmm says that she has changed her spending habits because she has financial goals for her later years. If the friend's pointed comments induce tmm to go back to her old spending habits, she may fail to meet her retirement savings goal. I can't begin to guess at the friend's motives, but whatever they are, her actions are just like those of a crab in a bucket. Since I don't know why the friend is doing this, I probably should have used a link that just described the behavior, instead of one that links it to a motive, but the Wikipedia link was the closest thing I could find on short notice.

 

[ChrisC]

That may be your intention and may come across to your friends the way you intend, but it doesn't match how tmm (the OP) describes her friend—tmm says that the friend uses a ridiculing tone and that she finds it irritating. That doesn't sound like affectionate ribbing to me.

Tmm says that she has changed her spending habits because she has financial goals for her later years. If the friend's pointed comments induce tmm to go back to her old spending habits, she may fail to meet her retirement savings goal. I can't begin to guess at the friend's motives, but whatever they are, her actions are just like those of a crab in a bucket. Since I don't know why the friend is doing this, I probably should have used a link that just described the behavior, instead of one that links it to a motive, but the Wikipedia link was the closest thing I could find on short notice.

I guess we're beating this to death, but I never said Tmm's friend was affectionately ribbing her or implied that was the case; I only said I do that to my "tightwad friends" who, when it comes to money, are tighter than a crab's ass on a cloudy day in Baltimore! And I said in other posts, it might be the tone of Tmm's friend's banter, not the message that's irritating Tmm.

Maybe I misread something, but I didn't get the impression that Tmm was re-changing her plans because of the prodding from her friend to spend more; or that she was being persuaded now to become a spendthrift! It seems to me that her friend is merely asking her to loosen up because she might be too tight with the cash, in her friend's opinion! Again, I don't know the entire parameters of the relationship or the diaglogue here -- but to suggest it's crab mentality or crabs in the barrel, just seems off base to me. Her friend is not trying to bring her down to the bottom of the financial cess-pool by having her spring for more expensive items.

I would grant you that would be the case if her friend persuaded her to live entirely beyond her means, buy moronically expensive items, and accumulate mountains of debt for no good purpose, except to live a life of decadence shared by her friend.

 

[Bimmerbill]

I'm pretty lucky. I generally don't give a rats azz what people other than my family and a few very good friends think. I guess after years of being shy and quiet, I've become quite self assured.

I'll tell my family to kiss off too, but will always listen respectfully first. They know not to ask me anything unless they want an honest and blunt answer.