The good old USA and medical costs

[Alan]

not gonna happen in the good old U.S. of A.  

In Italy (and I assume Canada, Switzerland, Japan and just about every other developed country with a public system) one is certainly free to buy additional private health insurance and either use that or pay out-of-pocket to visit private physicians and clinics.

From what people tell me (and I have both doctors and patients in the family here), it's not so much a matter of quality as of convenience and wait times. If you are on the list for a non-emergency test you may have to wait weeks. You're always free, though, to get the same test sooner for cash at a private lab if you so choose.

When I lived in England back in '83 I had a foot problem that was extremely painful meaning I had wear open-toe sandals at work etc.  I had to wait for 18 months to have the required surgery.  However, I always believed that if something was life-threatening, things would be different.  Since then I have had a number of family members with some really serious health problems who can't afford private and have to wait many months or years to get treatment.  The most recent is my sister's husband who was having balance problems and then dizzy spells.  It took 2 years before he had an MRI on his head, where they found a very large tumor wrapped around his brain stem, and they operated within days.  They couldn't take it all of course and after tests found some cancer cells so expected it to continue to grow slowly.  He has been pretty sick since then and 10 days ago had the first MRI since his operation 18 months ago.  The tumor has been growing again and the doctors debated about going in again for a trim and tuck but decided it would probably keep for 12 months.  However they have told him that the waiting list for the MRI scanner is 18 months so they won't see him again until then, unless he gets much worse (they also assured him that death will be painless when it comes).  He is 48 with 2 girls, 2 grandchildren and another due in 6 months.  We have often thought about going back to England when we retire because that is still where the vast majority of our family live, but the National Health care system is broken, and while we can afford the insurance in the USA there is no doubt in our my minds that it is worth it. (We moved here in 1987)

 

[ladelfina]

Alan, I am so sorry to hear about your brother-in-law. I guess I am, as you were, 'whistling in the dark'.

I'm truly troubled to hear of such long wait times for an MRI! I had read in the article I cited earlier that some countries have more MRI machines per person than the US, but I don't think Britain was mentioned.

In Italy my MIL has just come off the second of two knee replacements. She only had to wait a month or two.. probably depends on regional availability and demand here.

Certainly, especially after reading your story, it's hard to be a 'cheerleader' for socialized medicine, but I still do think of the millions of Americans who have no insurance whatsover; they would not have had the MRI at all, nor would they have had the operation.

I have a close friend in the US who is living with brain tumors (she had her first operation about 25 years ago, not long after I first met her), so I know it is a very long and rocky road. She has had to go through the "wait and see how big it gets" scenario, as well. She's had excellent care so far, since she is covered by her employer's insurance. However, the tumors' continued growth and her operations and treatment leave her ever more deaf. When her deafness reaches the point where she is no longer able to do her job, where will she go? How will she be able to pay with no job and no insurance? What insurer would take her even if she had the wherewithal to pay a high monthly premium?

It's a conundrum.

I do wish you and your brother-in-law and his family all the best.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Alan, I am so sorry to hear about your brother-in-law. I guess I am, as you were, 'whistling in the dark'.

I'm truly troubled to hear of such long wait times for an MRI! I had read in the article I cited earlier that some countries have more MRI machines per person than the US, but I don't think Britain was mentioned.

In Italy my MIL has just come off the second of two knee replacements. She only had to wait a month or two.. probably depends on regional availability and demand here.

Certainly, especially after reading your story, it's hard to be a 'cheerleader' for socialized medicine, but I still do think of the millions of Americans who have no insurance whatsover; they would not have had the MRI at all, nor would they have had the operation.

I have a close friend in the US who is living with brain tumors (she had her first operation about 25 years ago, not long after I first met her), so I know it is a very long and rocky road. She has had to go through the "wait and see how big it gets" scenario, as well. She's had excellent care so far, since she is covered by her employer's insurance. However, the tumors' continued growth and her operations and treatment leave her ever more deaf. When her deafness reaches the point where she is no longer able to do her job, where will she go? How will she be able to pay with no job and no insurance? What insurer would take her even if she had the wherewithal to pay a high monthly premium?

It's a conundrum.

I do wish you and your brother-in-law and his family all the best.

I've had some MRIs. I only use the "open" type as I am
slightly claustrophobic. Anyway, the last time I could have gotten
in at several locations within 24 hours. In fact, I had more trouble
scheduling to be able to get there as quickly as they could take me.
Never ever any trouble with a wait for an MRI.

JG

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

So were they able to locate a brain?

Was it where I think it is?

 

[Alan]

I'm truly troubled to hear of such long wait times for an MRI! I had read in the article I cited earlier that some countries have more MRI machines per person than the US, but I don't think Britain was mentioned.

Thank you for your words of support. My family is in the NE of England, which is where this particular family drama is unfolding. My wife's family lives in Manchester and a few years ago her brother was desperately in need of an MRI on his back as he was heading towards paralysis of his lower body. He was born with part of his lower spine missing and had several surgeries as a small boy. He was now a successful lawyer in his mid 30's and obviously things were getting much worse. He had a few months to wait, and had to travel to Liverpool for the nearest available MRI machine, which was amazing considering the size of Manchester. All turned out well in this case. As a result of the MRI they went back in and did some more surgery to make him much better.

Medicare may well be facing some tough times financially in the coming years but it has a long way to go before it faces the types of issues plaguing the NHS in Britain.

 

[macdaddy]

He had a few months to wait, and had to travel to Liverpool for the nearest available MRI machine, which was amazing considering the size of Manchester.

Unbelievable. I know of a few doctors who want to set up a remote MRI facility in a nearby town of 45000 people because they think it would save people the two hour trip to the University hospital and consequently be profitable. Capitalism is good for something after all I guess.

In the US if you went to an ER and complained of dizzyness and other associated symptoms, they would most likely do an MRI/catscan. If they didn't and then later someone found a brain tumor, you are looking at a 7 figure settlement. Helps to keep them honest...

 

[Alan]

In the US if you went to an ER and complained of dizzyness and other associated symptoms, they would most likely do an MRI/catscan.  If they didn't and then later someone found a brain tumor, you are looking at a 7 figure settlement.  Helps to keep them honest...

You can only bring a lawsuit in England if a doctor makes a mistake, not if the government doesn't provide sufficient high tech equipment.  As I mentioned, the brother-in-law in question is also a lawyer, and if fact he specializes in such cases.  In 2001 his mother (my MIL) fell and hurt her ankle while on a short vacation (MIL is a poor walker and uses a frame).  The doctor she saw diagnosed a badly sprained ankle and didn't order an X-Ray.  The Dr claimed she advised that MIL get an X-Ray when she returned home a couple of days later.  MIL claimed differently,  and in fact lived with the pain for a couple of weeks then came over to the USA for our daughter's wedding.  When she returned in 2 weeks time she saw her regular GP who had her go to the hospital for an X-Ray and it was found to be broken in 3 places.  She needed surgery to insert a plate and several screws.  BIL then sued the Dr, who had no record of advising an X-Ray.  They settled on a sum of $38K.

 

[Michael 95]

Alan, good luck, it sounds like things are rather tough, but it is possible to buy private Insurance in the UK at a reasonable price.

In the Us it is quite likely that your Brother's coverage would have elapsed and that he would have to pay out of his own pocket.

I have friends who have had to take relatives in because the cost of the illness eclipsed the amount the Insurance would pay.

I have over 30 years experiance in International Health Care, at a Senior CEO level, the US has the best system if you are relativly healthy with good company coverage, but Canada's is the best for overall population coverage.

No system meets 100% of the populations needs 100% of the time, but on balance, a Private/ Socialised System works the best.

Canadians and others can buy supplementary insurance that will allow them to travel to the US if they do not want to wait, but no life saving treatment is ever delayed.

My Brother went from Heart Attack to Angioplasty to Bypass within a week.

 

[Alan]

Michael 95,

Thank you for your reply. From these posts and other things I have seen and read, I think a pretty good place to be if you can't afford health insurance is Canada.