The Three Stooges appear before the senate banking committee---wooowooowoo

[haha]

Worse than their performance, how about the guys doing the grilling? Isn't that more funny? Remember these are the folks that gather their revenue at gunpoint, I guess that makes it easier to criticize real businesspeople.

I was thinking the same thing. No matter how bad the business people at Congressional hearings are, the congress people are bound to be infinitely more useless.

Also, it's all a charade, very similar to pro wrestling. I can just see them before the cameras start rolling, "Hey Alan and Rick, we're gonna put you guys into a headlock followed by a body slam, but hey, don't forget, it's all for the stupid voters. We really do love you guys!

By the way, can I borrow your jet for a junket to Paris over the Holidays? My girlfriend needs a little loving in a foreign locale or she will ditch me.

Great!! I knew you guys could help a buddy."

 

[chinaco]

I was thinking the same thing. No matter how bad the business people at Congressional hearings are, the congress people are bound to be infinitely more useless.

Also, it's all a charade, very similar to pro wrestling. I can just see them before the cameras start rolling, "Hey Alan and Rick, we're gonna put you guys into a headlock followed by a body slam, but hey, don't forget, it's all for the stupid voters. We really do love you guys!

By the way, can I borrow your jet for a junket to Paris over the Holidays? My girlfriend needs a little loving in a foreign locale or she will ditch me.

Great!! I knew you guys could help a buddy."

Yup... We will see how hard line the congress is if they do the bail out.

IMO - Wagoner should be fired along with most GM division heads (no golden parachute or bonus.

 

[clifp]

My former company not only didn't have corporate jets, but nobody flew first class, and everybody worked in cubicles. When bad times came the first people to get hit with bonus and paycuts was senior management. Wall St types were certainly greedy, but the Big 3 are greedy and stupid and that combo is just unforgivable.

My favorite line about the bailout, came from woman who grew up in Cleveland and moved to Hawaii about 10 years ago.

"This is God's way of telling people to leave Detroit before winter"

 

[catdance62]

My husband, a pilot, was aghast when he way their planes (jets). He couldn't believe that they are still flying around that way when their companies are drowning. And the one CEOs response when asked about it, like he just couldn't see what was wrong with that. They make me sick.
No bailout! Read my lips, No Bailout!!

 

[FinanceDude]

I tuned in to cnbc for parts of that sitcom today. Puhleeeze .. didn't they defend $75 /hr salary and entitlements by saying new workers were coming in at less? So people making 15 an hour and losing SS in coming years are supposed to secure those bad deals? No way. No way. No way. And STOP disparaging the stooges, when they screwed up a job they went on to another line of work at entry level instead of looking for a bailout.

I wish just ONE of the Senators would have said: "OH, WISE GUY HUH"

 

[al_bundy]

If they want $25 Billion of my tax money because they claim to be in financial trouble, they should not be flying around in 36 million dollar private jets. (Each of them flew in a separate jet)

for them it's probably cheaper to buy a company jet than to always buy airline tickets. the jet is probably used by a lot of management and business class open ended tickets are very expensive

 

[Bestwifeever]

They should have each driven their companies' cheapest, best gas mileage car in a caravan--it's 524 miles from Detroit to DC, or just under 9 hours per Googlemaps so they could make it in a day and three tanks of gas round trip per car--to show their support of their products.

 

[sailor]

for them it's probably cheaper to buy a company jet than to always buy airline tickets. the jet is probably used by a lot of management and business class open ended tickets are very expensive

No Al, it's definitely more expensive to buy a company jet than to buy business (or even first for that matter) open ended tickets. For some people/companies the ratio is worse than 100:1

 

[Payin-the-Toll]

Would have loved to see them get the bailout--since I live in the center of Indiana and know what devastation a BK will bring. But those 3 idiots really screwed the pooch!

 

[saluki9]

for them it's probably cheaper to buy a company jet than to always buy airline tickets. the jet is probably used by a lot of management and business class open ended tickets are very expensive

You do realize that a full size get like a GIV, GV, Global Express, etc can run upwards of $6,000 an hour to run, plus landing fees and other costs.

That doesn't include the 15-45M up front lease payments they pay to lease the jets.

First class is cheaper by a factor of 10 at least.

 

[Frugality_of_Apathy]

Sure they could buy out the entire first class cabin and save money. But is it even worth answering the congressional subpoena if you can't play air-hockey on the way there?

They'd probably rather take the prison time then have to travel with sub-billionaires.

 

[al_bundy]

when you factor in all the people the jet flies compared to regular business class tickets it's at least break even. and you can have a private meeting on a company jet unlike an airport

the jet just made it stand out they came to beg for money with no plan on how they will use it and no plan to cut costs. i'm all for the middle class but when a company the size of GM is about to go bankrupt because they are paying close to $100,000 per person in pensions plus medical benefits most people would kill for and they have a union contract with more fat than a whale there is something wrong

 

[samclem]

when you factor in all the people the jet flies compared to regular business class tickets it's at least break even. and you can have a private meeting on a company jet unlike an airport

There is no way it is a "break even" from a $$ spent standpoint. Maybe it is possible to justify the expense of the use of a corporate jet on the basis of utility (it keeps these high-power guys at work rather than sitting in an airport, they can work ont he airplane, etc). There'd be a stronger case if there was evidence that their amazing management abilities were resulting in big improvements. Regardless--flying in style to this hearing with tin cup in hand demonstrates a tone-deafness that does no inspire confidence. Maybe they stopped by the AIG executive spa/retreat on the way back to decompress as well.

 

[REWahoo]

when you factor in all the people the jet flies compared to regular business class tickets it's at least break even.

Not even close.

Company owned aircraft cannot be justified on a cost basis, not by any stretch of the imagination. They serve as status and convenience perks for the top brass, nothing more.

 

[saluki9]

when you factor in all the people the jet flies compared to regular business class tickets it's at least break even. and you can have a private meeting on a company jet unlike an airport

Are you actually being serious? Do you think that the other big 3 execs just happened to have meetings in DC that day?

Even if you ignore the opportunity costs of the tens of millions up front, and throw out the $15 - $40K a month in storage, maintenance, and piloting costs it still does not even come close to break even. Having a plane is about luxury, you can't make the numbers work out even if you try.

I have seen it come close once. We had a client who had to take 6 corporate attorneys to St. Louis for a deposition. They managed to find a jet operated by a local business that was idle for the day. It actually was cheaper for the client to pay for 3 hours of time at $3500 an hour than to buy 6 business class tickets at the last minute and pay the lawyers to wait at the airport. That's the only one I've ever seen. Having your own plane NEVER makes sense from a $$$ perspective.

 

[FIREd]

Well if it cost GM $20K to fly Wagoner to DC and he comes back with a "deal" worth $25B, then it will look like money well spent!

 

[al_bundy]

from the Delta website a 1st class fully refundable business/first class ticket is $1358 round trip to go from detroit to DC with one stop Nov 24 and come back the 26th. no saturday night stay to make this realistic.

if this thing seats 20 people like someone said than that's almost $27000 in airfare. don't know how much fuel and maintenance is or how many people it flies but i doubt it's a huge money pit compared to flying a commercial airline. and it's more flexible because you can fly into any airport you want without having people spend a full day traveling if their destination isn't in a major city.

few years ago i flew NYC to boston a few times for work. i'd take a 7am flight out and be back in time for dinner. in manement's case they can have the company jet wait for them if they are running late and save the money on hotel costs.

 

[Bestwifeever]

They could have carpooled for under $100 in gas....

 

[Goonie]

They could have carpooled for under $100 in gas....

...and even divvied up the cost to rent a Honda Prius to drive there.

 

[FinanceDude]

...and even divvied up the cost to rent a Honda Prius to drive there.

That would have been a great photo op, the Big Three CEOs and the UAW goof crammed into a Prius, rolling up to Capitol Hill.

 

[samclem]

from the Delta website a 1st class fully refundable business/first class ticket . . .

if this thing seats 20 people like someone said than that's almost $27000 in airfare.

I think I found the problem. This is the type of math/rationalization that got these companies to the point they are today.

 

[deepc]

from the Delta website a 1st class fully refundable business/first class ticket is $1358 round trip to go from detroit to DC with one stop Nov 24 and come back the 26th. no saturday night stay to make this realistic.

if this thing seats 20 people like someone said than that's almost $27000 in airfare. don't know how much fuel and maintenance is or how many people it flies but i doubt it's a huge money pit compared to flying a commercial airline.

First, these companies likely can arrange contract air prices from the airlines, such as the US Government does. This affords refundability, flexibility in schedules, and the benefit of volume pricing.

Second, what makes these CEOs worth business/first class? Again in comparison with the government, a commander of a ship for example, does not rate first/business class unless the distances are extreme or such. As a matter of fact, most government employees are not authorized any but coach unless it's upgraded with frequent flyer miles or at the employees expense. Again, what makes these guys think they need this sort of treatment?

It's incomprehensible the audacity of these types of managers. Even if it were all a charade, don't they understand the statement they're making by this sort of elitist (yes, this is truly elitist) behavior? Can't be seen with the rabble? While the rest of us wait in absurd security lines, take our shoes off and can't carry more than 3 oz of toothpaste!?

Perhaps if more of these buggers were brought down to earth, the world wouldn't be such a pain in the okole for the rest of us. Imagine waiting in line with a Senator, Congressman, or CEO of one of the big 3 in the TSA gate at Dulles and seeing one of them get pulled aside for the screening especiale. Then I'll believe they understand the challenges real people face, in large part due to their actions.

 

[Bestwifeever]

That would have been a great photo op, the Big Three CEOs and the UAW goof crammed into a Prius, rolling up to Capitol Hill.

I know, maybe then they would have gotten the bailout!

 

[saluki9]

if this thing seats 20 people like someone said than that's almost $27000 in airfare. don't know how much fuel and maintenance is or how many people it flies but i doubt it's a huge money pit compared to flying a commercial airline. and it's more flexible because you can fly into any airport you want without having people spend a full day traveling if their destination isn't in a major city.

Believe me, the planes may have seats for 16 to 20 people, but they NEVER fly with that many people. I remember when Bill Ford took the company over and found out that Ford owned a FLEET of jets that were sometimes being used by separate execs to fly the same routes almost empty. He sold the fleet and leased a smaller fleet of jets.

In all seriousness, it would have shown some sincerity if they all would have flown in together at least.

 

[FinanceDude]

I just don't see how a "measly" amount like $8 billion is going to help GM, when they are burning almost $6 billion a month??