Thoughts - Tax Preparation as PT Work?

[pb4uski]

To those who have worked for Block, are the "commissions" just a share of the total fees paid by the client in lieu of hourly pay?

 

[JoeWras]

Maybe I'm crazy, but my plan when I ER is to actually take the EA exams just "for the heck of it." Right now I find taxes interesting. As an engineer who loves playing with rules and numbers, it seems to make sense -- although it is also very different.

What scares me most about Block is the refund loans and the peace of mind insurance pushing. Not sure I have the proper customer-facing constitution to handle that.

So would I be crazy to spend my own money on getting the EA just to stimulate my mind? It sounds like it.

A job in somebody's tax office would be a plus of course. But I kind of want to just start with a hard challenge first.

 

[rothlev]

Maybe I'm crazy, but my plan when I ER is to actually take the EA exams just "for the heck of it." Right now I find taxes interesting. As an engineer who loves playing with rules and numbers, it seems to make sense -- although it is also very different.

What scares me most about Block is the refund loans and the peace of mind insurance pushing. Not sure I have the proper customer-facing constitution to handle that.

So would I be crazy to spend my own money on getting the EA just to stimulate my mind? It sounds like it.

A job in somebody's tax office would be a plus of course. But I kind of want to just start with a hard challenge first.

I would think you'd want some experience doing taxes before you sit for the EA exam.

There are no more refund loans , the IRS put a stop to that. Peace of Mind is something you offer your clients , there is a sales component to it, but I do not do a hard sale. I explain it and move on.

 

[JoeWras]

I would think you'd want some experience doing taxes before you sit for the EA exam.

There are no more refund loans , the IRS put a stop to that. Peace of Mind is something you offer your clients , there is a sales component to it, but I do not do a hard sale. I explain it and move on.

Thanks rothley. I told you I was crazy.

You're right, it might make sense for me to do something like Block's class and see if I can pass their muster first. It would be cheaper for starters, and that would also give me mental stimulation I fear I may miss, and if motivated enough, a possible job path. EA could come next year if discovered it was something I wanted to do during retirement.

Glad to hear the IRS stopped the refund loan madness. That always disturbed me.

 

[PatrickA5]

To those who have worked for Block, are the "commissions" just a share of the total fees paid by the client in lieu of hourly pay?

I've worked at Block for 6 years since retiring from Megacorp (CPA). I don't need the income, but enjoy doing taxes.

Blocks commission is based on several factors including client fees, certification level, years worked for the company, etc. If your commission is more than your hourly draw at the end of tax season, you will receive a final commission check. If your hourly draw is more than your calculated commission, you don't have to pay back your overdraw.

Some of the "pros" to working at Block include: 1) Very good training 2) Flexible hours (basically work when you want 3) Decent wages after a few years once you build up your client base.

"Cons" include: 1)Low starting pay 2)having to "sell" some products such as Peace of Mind and Emerald Debit Cards 3)Potentially dealing with office politics.

Honestly, if you don't think you'd like preparing taxes, it's not worth it. The money won't be worth the headaches. If you're weird like me and read tax/finance books and magazines "for fun", then you'd probably like making a few extra bucks working 3 1/2 months a year at a place like Block.

 

[frayne]

To those who have worked for Block, are the "commissions" just a share of the total fees paid by the client in lieu of hourly pay?

When I worked for Block you received an hourly pay based on your classification as TP1, TP2, Tax Advisor 1, etc., etc. At the end of the season you got your bonus which was based on a number of different metrics; cost of the tax return, POM sold, client retention, etc., etc., etc. Every year they seemed to change it just enough to keep many people confused.

When all was said and done I made about $15-$17 an hour. One thing I found rather strange was most if not all of the PT tax preparers would go down and sign up for unemployment on April 16th. I asked why they did this and they rationalized it by Block's low pay.

 

[JoeWras]

Honestly, if you don't think you'd like preparing taxes, it's not worth it. The money won't be worth the headaches. If you're weird like me and read tax/finance books and magazines "for fun", then you'd probably like making a few extra bucks working 3 1/2 months a year at a place like Block.

I haven't got into the books and magazines yet, but I do like reading about the tax situations. I also enjoy doing my own taxes. When I mention this to people, they say I am crazy. So, I do know I'm special.

I've also gotten a reputation at Megacorp for wanting to discuss taxes. To me it is all simple stuff like standard IRA, ESPP, HSA and NQSO issues. No big deal, but people just freak out over the rules. I enjoy discussing it.

As an aside... It is unbelievable how many people won't participate in our ESPP program because they "may have to pay taxes." We're talking 15% return for money set aside a maximum of 6 months (actually, more of an average of 3 months). No where can you get that kind of easy guaranteed return. Yet people let it go away because they "may have to pay that return as regular income." Arghhh!

 

[Buckeye]

I do tax returns as a volunteer with TaxAide. Prepare or review approximately 500 returns a year. I don't know what the pay is at Block or others. I have some volunteers who used to work at Block who got pretty disgusted with how they treated clients - especially taking advantage of lower income clients.

I was trained by Block (did their full class twice) and worked for them a couple of winters in OH. I would never work for them again (yes, very disgusted with their fee structure) but I've put my skills and experience to work volunteering to do free taxes at the local library. Mostly, an elderly population and the disgust now comes from seeing how their brokers are ripping them off by churning their accounts.

After retiring, I went back to college for a year to get my FL teaching certificate and I now substitute teach in our local school district (middle school). I choose how many days to work and where. When the day is over, I'm done! The rules changed during the year so a certificate is no longer required for daily jobs, but long term jobs can only be filled by certified subs. I now make in a day what I used to make in an hour but I've found it to be interesting and rewarding and relatively low stress.

 

[PatrickA5]

I haven't got into the books and magazines yet, but I do like reading about the tax situations. I also enjoy doing my own taxes. When I mention this to people, they say I am crazy. So, I do know I'm special.

I've also gotten a reputation at Megacorp for wanting to discuss taxes. To me it is all simple stuff like standard IRA, ESPP, HSA and NQSO issues. No big deal, but people just freak out over the rules. I enjoy discussing it.

As an aside... It is unbelievable how many people won't participate in our ESPP program because they "may have to pay taxes." We're talking 15% return for money set aside a maximum of 6 months (actually, more of an average of 3 months). No where can you get that kind of easy guaranteed return. Yet people let it go away because they "may have to pay that return as regular income." Arghhh!

Sounds like you're a good candidate for tax prep work!

I always participated in the ESPP plan at work. It could be a headache at tax time (keeping track of basis), but like you said, it's easy money. Same thing with FSA's - most of my co-workers never used them. I saved thousands over the years with daycare and kids in braces!

 

[Texas Proud]

Just a curiosity question on people who work for Block... do you have to sign the return as preparer or do they put down Block

 

[rothlev]

We sign the returns and each return has our PTIN. We ( especially those who are enrolled agents) are under strict guidelines and ethics rules when we sign a return. There are monetary penalties for violating the rules. ( ie: helping somone claim fraudulent expenses for example) We also give a signed copy of the return to the client.

 

[ziggy29]

We sign the returns and each return has our PTIN. We ( especially those who are enrolled agents) are under strict guidelines and ethics rules when we sign a return. There are monetary penalties for violating the rules. ( ie: helping somone claim fraudulent expenses for example) We also give a signed copy of the return to the client.

How does professional liability work if you are sued by a client? Do you have to have some sort of insurance for that?

 

[rothlev]

Thanks rothley. I told you I was crazy.

You're right, it might make sense for me to do something like Block's class and see if I can pass their muster first. It would be cheaper for starters, and that would also give me mental stimulation I fear I may miss, and if motivated enough, a possible job path. EA could come next year if discovered it was something I wanted to do during retirement.

Glad to hear the IRS stopped the refund loan madness. That always disturbed me.

That is exactly how I approached it. However I had 0 background and did not know what an enrolled agent was. Block payed the fees and bought the study materials. I am very much an introvert so I like least the sales component of the job. The fees also disburb me, especially the earned income credit tax return fees. But it is what it is and people do have choices in where and how they complete their taxes.

 

[rothlev]

How does professional liability work if you are sued by a client? Do you have to have some sort of insurance for that?

We can be left hanging in the wind depending on what BLOCK thinks . I have no direct knowledge of anyone who actually was sued. BLOCK tells us to follow the rules or they won't back you up. There is no insurance.

 

[target2019]

We can be left hanging in the wind depending on what BLOCK thinks . I have no direct knowledge of anyone who actually was sued. BLOCK tells us to follow the rules or they won't back you up. There is no insurance.

HRB is most likely the target of lawsuits, not preparer. It is possible that an individual preparer would get named, but just seems highly unlikely. If a preparer makes a mistake and it is brought to the attention of HRB, the return would be checked and amended if necessary. There is probably an arbitration statement in the contract that is signed before HRB will prepare taxes.

I think it is unlikely that an unbalanced or incompetent individual would get through the training each year. I know that the instructor I had back in 2005 was very much on the ball, and keeping notes.

There must be insurance of some kind. Whether it goes to the extent of E&O for you, probably not.

 

[rothlev]

HRB is most likely the target of lawsuits, not preparer. It is possible that an individual preparer would get named, but just seems highly unlikely. If a preparer makes a mistake and it is brought to the attention of HRB, the return would be checked and amended if necessary. There is probably an arbitration statement in the contract that is signed before HRB will prepare taxes.


There must be insurance of some kind. Whether it goes to the extent of E&O for you, probably not.

All true, clients sign an artbritation clause, thou they can opt out. Most do not pay any attention to the form. The guarentee covers errors. However should a preparer wind up in hot water with the IRS, I am not sure how much or if at all BLOCK will back us up. The IRS monitors preparers for questionable returns, as well they should.

 

[rothlev]

The more likely issue would be the IRS assessing penalties against the preparer that we would have to pay out of pocket.

 

[rothlev]

I think it is unlikely that an unbalanced or incompetent individual would get through the training each year. I know that the instructor I had back in 2005 was very much on the ball, and keeping notes.

.

BLOCK is pretty ethical. We do not do fraudulent returns. We are told to not file any returns wherein we suspect fraud. However there are plenty of unbalanced and or incompetent people who do do tax returns and are quite capable of maintaining their PTIN's and training requirements. We often get the letter that follows and the client has no idea where those numbers came from.

 

[rothlev]

Another important point: Clients must sign their tax returns. They are told up front that they are responsible for a true and correct return, It is on the 8879

 

[PatrickA5]

Just a curiosity question on people who work for Block... do you have to sign the return as preparer or do they put down Block

The preparer signs the return.

 

[youbet]

Wow! All this talk about "W*RK" is making me dizzy!

 

[youbet]

BLOCK is pretty ethical. We do not do fraudulent returns.

I don't think that "not doing fraudulent returns" is a measure of "ethical-ness." It's a measure of covering their butts so they don't get in trouble with the IRS.

Acting as a fiduciary to clients and not selling them any products or services not in the client's best interest would be an example of acting in an "ethical" manner.

 

[frayne]

Charging folks a 36% APR for Emerald Advance loans is not my idea of being ethical. Throw into the equation of charging anywhere from $250-$400+ for returns that have EITC isn't my idea of being ethical either. In my way of thinking Block as well as many other tax prep firms take advantage of those who can least afford to be taken advantage of. If you step back and look at the whole situation in a wider perspective these firms are taking your tax money that was intended for those with lower incomes.

Not bashing Block, just telling it the way it is.

 

[jkern]

Learning and doing taxes is my post-retirement hobby. I volunteer through the VITA program, which is great. When clients receive a free service, they love you.

Taking tax prep to the next level, I gave H&R Block a try. The office that I worked in had limited walk in traffic. Therefore, I spent a lot of time not preparing tax returns. It got a little boring. Also, the tax returns they let you prepare the first year are too easy. The long term tax prepares get the more complex returns because of experience and higher commissions. The clients can get a little rude and annoying at times too. And last but not least, I only made $10 per hour.

In order not to rush to judgment, I went back to H&R Block the second year. With the commission structure and the number of clients I had, I was still only going to make $10 per hour. My tolerance for rude clients and petty office politics diminished as time went on. Without getting into the details, I had a disagreement with the Office Manager and I ended up walking out (take this job and shove it!).

It was not for me. Too much down time, not challenging enough, awful office politics and extremely low pay.

If you have the right attitude, need the money and are willing to spend a few years building a client base, this could be a viable part time retirement job. For me, I sticking to the VITA program.

 

[Buckeye]

Charging folks a 36% APR for Emerald Advance loans is not my idea of being ethical. Throw into the equation of charging anywhere from $250-$400+ for returns that have EITC isn't my idea of being ethical either. In my way of thinking Block as well as many other tax prep firms take advantage of those who can least afford to be taken advantage of. If you step back and look at the whole situation in a wider perspective these firms are taking your tax money that was intended for those with lower incomes.

Not bashing Block, just telling it the way it is.

This is exactly why I stopped doing tax returns for money and went the volunteer route.