travelover
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Vanguard - last straw?
- Thread starter ChicagoGal
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jazz4cash
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I have an appointment next week with a Fido rep. I had one assigned to me that was horrible, so I had him removed as my account rep. I went through the list of reps to meet with and found two who had CFP credentials. I picked the one who used to work for Vanguard.
Jack Bogle is a hero of mine, but Vanguard's website leaves a lot to be desired IMO.
Please post an update on your experience with the new rep. I am undecided if I should use the guy assigned to me or mostly ignore him. He seems to be hinting at using their paid advisory service. I’ve been bringing funds over to Fido but he seems unimpressed.
Texas Proud
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An interesting article.... it is talking about the changes that are happening at Vanguard.
IMO it is real... I had great service many years ago, but it has declined over the last 5 or so years....
BTW, they always say 'you own the company' but do I really? Owning a Vanguard does not appear to be any different than any other find I have... I never get a check from them, just like my other funds... so it is a talking point of no importance...
Here is a part of the article.
This strain has manifested itself in two ways. One has been a decline in customer service. Whereas Vanguard executives once boasted that the company answered calls within three rings, complaints now abound about the difficulty of reaching company representatives. (Stated another friend, “I get prompt responses from Fidelity and Schwab, but with Vanguard I have waited on hold as long as 45 minutes.”) Customer-service surveys support the anecdotal evidence.
https://www.morningstar.com/articles/1071801/has-vanguard-lost-its-way
IMO it is real... I had great service many years ago, but it has declined over the last 5 or so years....
BTW, they always say 'you own the company' but do I really? Owning a Vanguard does not appear to be any different than any other find I have... I never get a check from them, just like my other funds... so it is a talking point of no importance...
Here is a part of the article.
This strain has manifested itself in two ways. One has been a decline in customer service. Whereas Vanguard executives once boasted that the company answered calls within three rings, complaints now abound about the difficulty of reaching company representatives. (Stated another friend, “I get prompt responses from Fidelity and Schwab, but with Vanguard I have waited on hold as long as 45 minutes.”) Customer-service surveys support the anecdotal evidence.
https://www.morningstar.com/articles/1071801/has-vanguard-lost-its-way
I have done the backdoor Roth, mega back door Roth, designated beneficiaries, found mailing info, updated personal and banking info, I bought 25 shares of VTI on FRI with a limit order on my phone, transferred bank funds on my phone, and blah blah blah. All in my Vanguard accounts not needing to speak on the phone with a Vanguard customer Rep.
I am sure Vanguard has struggled big time with not being to answer the phone in 3 minutes in 2022 but many other companies are experiencing the same problem
The baby boomers crying about being on hold for 45 minutes should switch to Schwab and Fidelity and call it a day.
Or call back Vanguard when the wait time is not 45 minutes. lol
The younger investors don't even want to call a 800 number at all.
The trillions of new dollars flowing into Vanguard creates a hard decision for Vanguard and the future of investing is not on a 800 number.
Just like Costco knows their ridiculously crowded gas pumps will sooner than later be electric charging stations.
So I am not leaving Costco now because of their success with low cost gasoline.
youbet
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This is a bit of a fun thread. Personally, I don't see where it could make all that much difference whether you choose Vanguard, Fidelity or Schwab. I'm very familiar with Schwab, somewhat familiar with Fidelity and not so familiar with Vanguard. (I'm talking Vanguard the brokerage house, not Vanguard funds. Two different things.)
I went with Schwab 30+ years ago because I wanted a B and M office nearby, access to all funds and most other investments (a full-service brokerage house), low costs and no pressure to be anything other than DIY. They've been OK. A few hassles here and there, but generally I'm pleased. Over half my assets at Schwab are in Vanguard funds.
I help the widow of a close friend monitor her investments. She's with Fidelity. Seems fine. I haven't had any issues with the advise she's been getting and she meets with them twice a year.
I recall that years ago, Vanguard was not where you wanted to be if you wanted a full service broker and did some trading outside of Vanguard funds. Then I noted they changed their structure and switched everyone to a brokerage account holding many funds and improved their performance as a full service brokerage house.
Other than the fact that I want a physical office nearby (for DW), I don't think I'd loose much, if anything, by moving to Vanguard. But I don't exercise their web site or phone lines, so only know what I read here.
Every place seems to have its pros and cons. It's amazing how defensive folks can get about their own brokerage house.
I went with Schwab 30+ years ago because I wanted a B and M office nearby, access to all funds and most other investments (a full-service brokerage house), low costs and no pressure to be anything other than DIY. They've been OK. A few hassles here and there, but generally I'm pleased. Over half my assets at Schwab are in Vanguard funds.
I help the widow of a close friend monitor her investments. She's with Fidelity. Seems fine. I haven't had any issues with the advise she's been getting and she meets with them twice a year.
I recall that years ago, Vanguard was not where you wanted to be if you wanted a full service broker and did some trading outside of Vanguard funds. Then I noted they changed their structure and switched everyone to a brokerage account holding many funds and improved their performance as a full service brokerage house.
Other than the fact that I want a physical office nearby (for DW), I don't think I'd loose much, if anything, by moving to Vanguard. But I don't exercise their web site or phone lines, so only know what I read here.
Every place seems to have its pros and cons. It's amazing how defensive folks can get about their own brokerage house.
jazz4cash
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
The comments about VG not caring about losing individual investors got me wondering about their relative size. Indeed they probably think everything is fine. They are 2x Fido and Schwab is not even top 10.
This list from The Balance (Feb ‘22) contained several surprises to me. I never heard of #9. #7 and #10 seem to have outsized influence for their size. Besides Schwab, another outfit with high focus on retail investors is EJ.
AUM RANK
1.Blackrock 9.4T
2.Vanguard 8.4T
3.UBS 4.4T
4.Fidelity 4.2T
5.State Street 3.8T
6.Morgan Stanley 3.2T
7.JP Morgan Chase 2.9 T
8.Allianz 2.9T
9.Capital Group 2.3T
10.Goldman Sachs 2.3T
https://www.thebalance.com/which-firms-have-the-most-assets-under-management-4173923
This list from The Balance (Feb ‘22) contained several surprises to me. I never heard of #9. #7 and #10 seem to have outsized influence for their size. Besides Schwab, another outfit with high focus on retail investors is EJ.
AUM RANK
1.Blackrock 9.4T
2.Vanguard 8.4T
3.UBS 4.4T
4.Fidelity 4.2T
5.State Street 3.8T
6.Morgan Stanley 3.2T
7.JP Morgan Chase 2.9 T
8.Allianz 2.9T
9.Capital Group 2.3T
10.Goldman Sachs 2.3T
https://www.thebalance.com/which-firms-have-the-most-assets-under-management-4173923
Koolau
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Okay, now I feel really stupid. I don't even know Blackrock (and a couple others.) YMMV
Koolau
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COcheesehead
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#9 is also known as American funds.
RetiredAt55.5
Full time employment: Posting here.
So I'm just curious by your comment WHAT young investors do when they have a problem with the website. Vanguard has turned off chat and doesn't reply to secure emails.
Other than calling their 800 number, what other magical channel do they use?
I will admit I HAVE whined when I have run out of Vanguard checks and I cannot order more checks because the website shows a block on my checking account and I have no earthly idea why there is a block on my account. Silly me for calling on the phone.
Koolau
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
So were you able to get through and have the issue resolved?
RetiredAt55.5
Full time employment: Posting here.
Yes, after 2 separate calls weeks apart. I was assured during the first call that I could ignore the website message and the checks would arrive in the mail in 7-10 days. The checks never came and the blocked account message was still showing on the website.
The second rep was able to successfully get the checks sent out.
Neither rep could explain what the blocked account message was all about.
Fortunately, we do have other checkbooks with other banks. I prefer to use Vanguard checks for significant payments since they keep 10+ years of transaction histories with check images online. This is one of the many reasons (beyond taxable accounts and capital gains over 30+ years) that it is nontrivial to move to another financial institution as some have suggested.
A problem with the Vanguard website or phone app? I have never had a real problem with Vanguards phone App or website except when they are down for maintenance on the weekends.
Obviously on occasion all large companies and organizations have tech problems sometimes.
But I am an active trader using Vanguard weekly in my Roth and brokerage account and I have no problems making trades at all. Very quick and trades are always filled up to the last minute of the trading day.
The Vanguard 800 number is open 12 hours a day Monday thru Friday so I guess young investors use that service when needed. But it won't be for a tech issue.
I have called Vanguard a few times in the past 5 years and they do answer the phone quickly in my experience.
If any company puts me on hold longer than 15 minutes I move on with life and try again later.
So was Vanguard able to help you with your checking account issue?
Hopefully you received quick phone service.
I really cannot even think of a reason to call Vanguard or Schwab or Fidelity to be honest.
I can now do everything on my phone or MacBook Pro.
So electronic payments would not work instead of actual paper checks?
mathjak107
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Many are not aware of vanguards self serving policies and marketing ploys
And no , they are not in your best interest despite they call you an owner
jazz4cash
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RetiredAt55.5
Full time employment: Posting here.
A problem with the Vanguard website or phone app? I have never had a real problem with Vanguards phone App or website except when they are down for maintenance on the weekends.
Obviously on occasion all large companies and organizations have tech problems sometimes.
But I am an active trader using Vanguard weekly in my Roth and brokerage account and I have no problems making trades at all. Very quick and trades are always filled up to the last minute of the trading day.
The Vanguard 800 number is open 12 hours a day Monday thru Friday so I guess young investors use that service when needed. But it won't be for a tech issue.
I have called Vanguard a few times in the past 5 years and they do answer the phone quickly in my experience.
If any company puts me on hold longer than 15 minutes I move on with life and try again later.
So was Vanguard able to help you with your checking account issue?
Hopefully you received quick phone service.
I really cannot even think of a reason to call Vanguard or Schwab or Fidelity to be honest.
I can now do everything on my phone or MacBook Pro.
Yea, I guess I'm one of those technically challenged baby boomers that just can't self service themselves on the web.
33+ years in IT, the last 17 doing web development as a tech lead for a major financial institution with millions of customers, worked on website logon and registration, statements, online chat, collaborative browsing with a phone rep, etc., etc.
And I still can't figure out this web thing and have to call up. It's gotta be me.
And I have to be honest with you, in those 17 years of doing web development, we never had any bugs in our millions of lines of code that prevented customers from being able to self service themselves. Unlike the software industry in general, our software was just 100% perfect all the time.
Koolau
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I certainly sympathize with your situation. I just wonder if it's a Vanguard problem or a checking-at-a-big-remote-house issue.
Honestly, I simply would not bank where I either do not have a brick and mortar bank or a long relationship with a bank that has brick and mortar where I used to live (my situation) as I have both such bank accounts.
I understand there are some advantages of banking through the big houses, but as you have found, dealing with issues may be more problematic. Call me a Luddite but I just wouldn't "depend" on such a checking account. At least I would have a totally viable back-up bank capable of handling any transaction that might go "bad" at a big house. YMMV
VanWinkle
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Yea, I guess I'm one of those technically challenged baby boomers that just can't self service themselves on the web.
33+ years in IT, the last 17 doing web development as a tech lead for a major financial institution with millions of customers, worked on website logon and registration, statements, online chat, collaborative browsing with a phone rep, etc., etc.
And I still can't figure out this web thing and have to call up. It's gotta be me.
And I have to be honest with you, in those 17 years of doing web development, we never had any bugs in our millions of lines of code that prevented customers from being able to self service themselves. Unlike the software industry in general, our software was just 100% perfect all the time.
I'm going to assume the financial institution was something other than Vanguard.
Koolau
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You wouldn't have low cost mutual funds from Fidelity if they didn't have to compete with Vanguard. Vanguard reduces investment expenses to cover costs while Fidelity will sell you a high cost closet index fund if you aren't paying close attention.
I don't understand why Vanguard doesn't have an option for beneficiaries on joint accounts, but a trust is one of several ways around this. I don't think they "tried to sell you a trust."
Vanguard has always had managed funds. I don't see the point myself. You are mad at Vanguard about this but give Fido, Schwab and the others a pass, since you hold them to a lower standard.
It is a fact that investors get less than the market return due to poor decision making. John Bogle promoted investing conservatively and "staying the course." It turns out that many people can't do it. They chase trends or overinvest in risky assets. When their funds go down they sell in a panic. Those people probably benefit from paying 0.3% for an individual to give them advice. I don't see the need for myself but it is probably good to make it available at Vanguard. Since those investors pay their way I can't understand why I would mind.
It's understandable that Vanguard is held to a higher standard but with the availability of ETFs it is great that you can invest in a Vanguard portfolio based at another broker.
mathjak107
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You are missing the point .
Fidelity didn’t go to market drawing in investors on the virtues of indexing and how anyone can beat the pros ..
That ended up being false since most investors exhibit poor investor behavior which is why the morningstar investor numbers are always worse then the funds themselves got …..
Vanguard did not promote money mgmt much before they got in to it whole hog .
Then they released a study showing how poor investor behavior was the reason many investors lagged behind what having their money managed by them could do .
They have Been promoting their managed funds as well all over the place despite their claim to fame of indexing beats buying manged funds .
There is a pattern here ….as things they preached to us end up not being the case after all after they decide to promote what it is they want to promote.
What they did to us with our beneficiaries and tried to force us to get trusts was the last straw with them for me
Fidelity didn’t go to market drawing in investors on the virtues of indexing and how anyone can beat the pros ..
That ended up being false since most investors exhibit poor investor behavior which is why the morningstar investor numbers are always worse then the funds themselves got …..
Vanguard did not promote money mgmt much before they got in to it whole hog .
Then they released a study showing how poor investor behavior was the reason many investors lagged behind what having their money managed by them could do .
They have Been promoting their managed funds as well all over the place despite their claim to fame of indexing beats buying manged funds .
There is a pattern here ….as things they preached to us end up not being the case after all after they decide to promote what it is they want to promote.
What they did to us with our beneficiaries and tried to force us to get trusts was the last straw with them for me
RetiredAt55.5
Full time employment: Posting here.
I am not at liberty to say (they strongly discourage current and former employees from divulging their employer). I don't have a pension, but I do get some retirement benefits that I'm not risking.
RetiredAt55.5
Full time employment: Posting here.
My guess: US Gummint.
At the risk of getting the moderators involved, I'll take the high road and not reply to your comment.
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