Where do you keep your Will and Trust documents?

[CRLLS]

The discussion about old wills and trusts got me thinking about this. Having not used an attorney in creating our docs, we cannot leave copies at "our attorney's office. In our case, our properly executed Nolo wills and other life documents are kept in a fire safe along with other important documents such as birth certificates, marriage certificates, paper stock certificates, vehicle titles, passports etc. We have not given copies of our wills to our children but they have been told where they are and can access them if needed.

I have read that many recommend leaving copies of their will at the attorney's office. Which begs the question: is a copy of a will valid? I suspect not. Therefore, there is but one real, legal will. To what purpose is keeping a copy there even used for? Perhaps to show that a more current version may be "out there" somewhere, if not found immediately by family members.

Are attorneys constantly following death notices to see if any of their past clients have passed and then present their copy to the named executor? I highly doubt that. Do any of your beneficiaries even know who your attorney is and how to contact him/her?

 

[skyking1]

lawyer and our friend, his office manager have a copy.

 

[JOBO]

We worked up a plan with our attorney, a family court judge and RIA that involves on and off-site storage. None of them know each other and only our attorney is aware of who the other two are.

Considerations for documenting digital assets:

1. Static information goes stale quickly.
2. Its easy to create an insecure process.
3. Creating a secure easy-to-use process is hard.
4. Cloud storage and bank boxes aren’t dependable.
5. A Will doesn’t keep real estate out of probate court.
6. A Will is overridden by named POD/TOD beneficiaries.
7. The unthinkable comes in the form of regional disasters and localized catastrophes

Goals: Ease executor’s burden, ensure no accounts end up with the SoS, avoid probate.

Requirements: Easily accessible by heirs, reasonably secure, redundant, complete, accurate, inexpensive, maintainable and the hardcopy is useless to anyone all by itself because it contains no account#'s , login credentials or even any of our PII.

Out of Scope: Asset protection, Legacy, Taxes, Anonymity

The Executor must be able to discover all assets without having to rely on an internet connection.

Solutions ranged from doing nothing to creating an interlocking web of nested legal entities managed by a team of asset protection lawyers.
We determined a workable solution varied by need but encryption and physical security were required while keeping complexity, obfuscation and redirection to a minimum.

It includes pictures and contact info for all 9 "team members" from attorney, to insurance agents and handyman.

Its also important to clearly describe things the Executor should NOT look for such as:
There are no older copies of the XXXX Will either real or digital to be recalled, amended or destroyed.
There are no rented lockers, bank deposit or PO boxes.
Nothing of importance is delivered via the USPS.
Nothing is buried in the yard, hidden in the garage, attic, crawlspace, wall, taped to the bottom of a drawer or stuffed into the pockets of old clothes

 

[Sunset]

....

I have read that many recommend leaving copies of their will at the attorney's office. Which begs the question: is a copy of a will valid? I suspect not. Therefore, there is but one real, legal will. To what purpose is keeping a copy there even used for? Perhaps to show that a more current version may be "out there" somewhere, if not found immediately by family members.

....

I would think the "copies" of a Will at the attorneys office, are signed when the "original" is signed, so both are valid as they are signed and dated at the same time.
Since they are copies of each other, the question of which one is valid is moot since they both are equal in wording.

 

[Sunset]

Why keeping a copy at the attorney's office is a good idea, just ask anyone who's house burned down.

Keeping it in a safety deposit bank is bad, as banks often seal the box until you show appointment by the court (but you need the Will to do that easily). So a catch 22.

 

[Jerry1]

We have not given copies of our wills to our children but they have been told where they are and can access them if needed.

Do any of your beneficiaries even know who your attorney is and how to contact him/her?

You should give copies to your children (assuming they are adults and live in a separate home).

Yes, my beneficiaries know to call my lawyer and my financial planner. My lawyer has my will and due to drafting it, knows my intent. My financial planner gets a copy of my year-end statements and a net worth print out so knows where all of my assets are.

 

[pacergal]

Lawyers office has one, we have the other, kept in our safe.

 

[brett]

One copy held by lawyer.

Another copy in safe deposit box. Both children has access to the box.

A third copy filed at home.

Updated every 7 years or so or as necessary.

 

[gayl]

I'm wondering what else I need to do:
> will in safe
> designated beneficiaries on Schwab, bank, house
> everything else is under small estate affidavit limit
So does the will even matter?

 

[qwerty3656]

I'm wondering what else I need to do:
> will in safe
> designated beneficiaries on Schwab, bank, house
> everything else is under small estate affidavit limit
So does the will even matter?

What do you have for the house? I have the beneficiaries on the bank accounts, but haven't found a good solution for the house. I live in Michigan, and you cannot name multiple beneficiaries on a house (I see references for a "Lady Bird Deed", but haven't worked through how to impliment)

 

[threeonesix]

Why not just use a Dead Man's Switch? The two of which I am aware are:

https://www.deadmansswitch.net/

https://www.deadmantracker.com/

When you miss your check-in and have not prepared the service for a known future absence, it generates emails to contacts of your choosing. The emails can be CC'd to lawyers, bankers, state agencies, etc. These emails are acceptable to be used in place of legal documents such as wills. Or just store your will and other legal documents in cloud storage, such as Google Storage, and include links to those files in the emails.

 

[Montecfo]

^^^

But need original will for probate.

 

[JBTX]

Not all lawyers these days keep originals, especially post Covid as some may work from home. Ours doesn’t. I’m still trying to figure out a good place to keep it.

 

[Morgan22]

Why not just email your kids a copy of your will? And if you ever update, email again.
DF has done this with us kids. No surprises when the unfortunate time arrives.
He also let us know that he keeps an original in his file cabinet.

 

[W2R]

I had my first will made last November (better late than never, eh?). It is a short, very simple will and unlikely to be contested.

There's a signed original at my attorney's office. In addition, I sent a PDF of it to each of my heirs, and also told each of them where to find the second original signed copy that I have in my possession.

 

[MC Rider]

Where do you keep your Will and Trust documents?

My what now? Guess I should get on the stick.

 

[RetMD21]

The discussion about old wills and trusts got me thinking about this. Having not used an attorney in creating our docs, we cannot leave copies at "our attorney's office. In our case, our properly executed Nolo wills and other life documents are kept in a fire safe along with other important documents such as birth certificates, marriage certificates, paper stock certificates, vehicle titles, passports etc. We have not given copies of our wills to our children but they have been told where they are and can access them if needed.

I have read that many recommend leaving copies of their will at the attorney's office. Which begs the question: is a copy of a will valid? I suspect not. Therefore, there is but one real, legal will. To what purpose is keeping a copy there even used for? Perhaps to show that a more current version may be "out there" somewhere, if not found immediately by family members.

Are attorneys constantly following death notices to see if any of their past clients have passed and then present their copy to the named executor? I highly doubt that. Do any of your beneficiaries even know who your attorney is and how to contact him/her?

Yeah, there are downsides to attorneys keeping wills. A semi-retired attorney in his early 70s was telling me that he has a huge stash of old wills of people who may or may not be alive and may have newer documents. He just waits for people to ask for them.

We keep our will in a home safe, A copy may or may not suffice. We're hoping that our trust will eliminate the need for probate of the will anyway.

 

[teejayevans]

Do you really need a safe, do you expect someone would try to falsify it?

Does your executor know the combination? And years from now, will they remember it?

 

[Midpack]

Our trust attorney has a copy with original signatures, and we have a copy with original signatures in our fireproof safe at home. If you have a DIY will, why can’t you provide a copy with original signatures to an attorney or several people you trust - standard practice for estate attorneys, so there isn’t only one legal will/trust.

Odds of fire destroying our copy and attorneys copy simultaneously are remote at best.

Our first and second executors know how to get our trust docs including statements, passwords, etc., and have a three page summary of what it says - who gets what in %, they just don’t know what “the pot” is until we’re gone. Our third executor knows how to get our trust doc.

Right or wrong, my parents gave sister and I (co-trustees) full copies of their trust docs, with periodic updates, for the last 20+ years of their lives. So there were no surprises. We knew we were splitting everything 50/50, and even what the $ balances were throughout.

I know people like to keep their beneficiaries in the dark, but that’s sad (even cowardly) if you can’t be honest with your own kids IMO…

 

[DrRoy]

Basement fire safe box.

 

[donheff]

I'm not paranoid about our wills and trusts. I don't see anything in them that data thieves could use. And nothing I would worry about appearing on the front page of the newspaper. We keep copies in a fireproof, unlocked safe, our attorney's office, and on a cloud drive with read permissions for the kids. We told them we were posting the documents and a brief explanation of what they do. I'm pretty sure neither of them have read them carefully, especially the trust documents. I wish the pain language movement had taken over this sphere but it hasn't.

 

[steelyman]

I keep digital copies at FidSafe, a service that I first learned of here at e-r.org. It’s free and is a little clunky (the user interface) but does the job.

http://fidsafe.com

 

[Kings over Queens]

Ours are in sealed envelops in our safe, not out of any security concerns, just because. The originals are in sealed envelops to protect their authenticity.

 

[Going camping]

We have a copy of our wills in our house safe and a relative has a second copy. The attorneys' office will have a copy on hand as well.

We have tried to reduce the need for a will by having beneficiaries listed on all accounts and we are going to file a Transfer on Death Deed with our local circuit court so the property won't have to go through probate and go directly to the kids.

One thing I have done recently is make a list of the brokerage and insurance account types and firms with contact information and given it to my DF to assist the kids if the inevitable happens sooner rather than later. Dad is getting older, so once the kids get a little more established, they will get the list. I'd like to keep things as simple as possible.

 

[Happyras]

I keep digital copies at FidSafe, a service that I first learned of here at e-r.org. It’s free and is a little clunky (the user interface) but does the job.

http://fidsafe.com

Absolutely my go to as well. The site is provided by Fidelity Investments, has the required security features and you can organize easily to give access or limited access to certain files. Now the issue is, will our heirs know how to use it? You will likely never know.....