Who changed it to 20%

[Sunset]

+1 Most posts refer to waiting tables. What about hair stylists, Uber drivers, hotel luggage carriers and maids, valet parking attendants, tour guides...etc. I did wait tables in college. I don't care to share what happens to food to poor tippers who frequent the restaurants I worked.

So it should not really be called a tip, more like an extortion.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

+1 I don't care to share what happens to food to poor tippers who frequent the restaurants I worked.

This just goes to show the mentality of "some" staff. They do not deserve my tip to start with, let alone that of others. They are degusting and spiteful human beings and probably deserve all they get. What if a patron simply cannot afford to tip to their satisfaction.

If one does not rebel against the system, it will never change.

 

[Music Lover]

Agree. I never worked a tipped job, but I spent a few years in fast food service, both as server/cashier and cook. Many customers were wonderful, but others treated us as though we were subhuman or something. If you feel that way about the help, then stay home! I suspect that many people who think those jobs are so easy have never done them.

I know several servers and don't think they're subhuman. The job can get busy at times but the reality is that it's not overly difficult or complicated. But I also don't think they're worth $30 or $40 an hour, which is what most of the ones I know earn.

 

[Music Lover]

If you want to be a cheapskate, just proudly be one. Don't try to justify it. Because the world is still going to judge you, and the rationalizers always come out looking worse.

If people want to judge me for not paying a server $30 or $40 for an hour of work, that's their right. But it certainly doesn't make me cheap. I didn't make $40 in my best ever year of my career....no reason that a server deserves that much.

 

[24601NoMore]

I am amazed at how many here think that waiting tables should be a min wage position. And determine, or at least justify their tip based on that. All they do is take your orders and deliver the food. That job certainly cannot be worth minimum wage plus a small tip if any at all, is it? That is the feeling that I get reading here. One could say that an electrician whose only "fix" is to reset a breaker switch is not worth more than minimum wage, or a plumber who charges a minimum of 1 hrs labor and simply changes a trap gasket that takes 5 minutes. I wonder what they would think a road worker holding a traffic flag is worth in pay. Imagine how you would feel if you were paid what the public thought you should have been paid during your working years.

There's a big difference in education, experience and skills needed to be an electrician, plumber, etc compared to a server.

If you base compensation on the skills required to do a job, then (respectfully), a server in most scenarios is a minimum wage or slightly above minimum wage job. It certainly does not require the skills, experience or training of an electrician, plumber, etc. Just about anyone can wait tables, regardless of education, skills, etc. Learn the menu. Be pleasant to your customers. Run food to the table. That's just not a difficult job compared to many other positions.

And to the person who said they don't want us to know what happens to people who are not perceived as good tippers? Are you seriously proud of that?

Back to the original question..I feel that 15% of the total bill including tax in most scenarios is plenty to leave as a tip. Servers can make very good money waiting tables at that tip level, and I personally don't leave 20% unless the service is 'above and beyond' and warrants a larger tip.

 

[Dash man]

Seems to me most servers don’t have a steady flow of customers for their entire shift. So the may make $30-40/hr for a few hours on a weekend, I’m pretty sure the beginning and ends of shifts are not as fruitful. Servers do work hard in many places and dealing with customers is not always easy. I tend to tip well, especially for breakfast and lunch when the bills aren’t as high.

 

[RobbieB]

If you want to be a cheapskate, just proudly be one. Don't try to justify it. Because the world is still going to judge you, and the rationalizers always come out looking worse.

Yeah Baby!

If you have to justify being cheap, you must feel guilty.

If you were cheap and proud, no justification would be given or needed.

Fly your cheap flag high! Be proud to pay less! Put another notch on your wallet for every waiter stiffed.

 

[CRLLS]

I worked a factory job for minimum wage for a summer. Before that I was a stock boy, a short order cook, a bottle washer, a pizza delivery guy and I delivered newspapers when I was 12 or 13 yrs old for below min wage. I do know what it means to work for minimum wage. Some of those jobs I had the opportunity to better my pay thru tips or piece rate bonus, but not all of them.

In the case of wait staff, it is customary to tip here in the USA, so I do. I don't care whether they make min wage, above or below min wage. It is not part of my thought process at all. Never even crosses my mind. The price on the menu is not the price we pay. I expect to pay a tip just like I expect to pay a sales tax. It just is. Plain and simple. No justification needed. The only difference is that we get to decide how much to tip and the tax is set by others.

Whether the electrician or plumber in my earlier example has the education training and experience, the service that they performed is not rocket science and certainly would take less than a high school education to perform. If we pay the person for the job performed they would get minimum wage for those jobs. If we pay for the education, maybe we should ask out waiter/waitress if they have an advanced degree. But we don't do either, we pay what is reasonable and customary. I guess we certainly have our differences in what is reasonable. Some prefer to pay less than customary.

 

[Midpack]

I know several servers and don't think they're subhuman. The job can get busy at times but the reality is that it's not overly difficult or complicated. But I also don't think they're worth $30 or $40 an hour, which is what most of the ones I know earn.

If people want to judge me for not paying a server $30 or $40 for an hour of work, that's their right. But it certainly doesn't make me cheap. I didn't make $40 in my best ever year of my career....no reason that a server deserves that much.

Except your pulling your $30-40/hr out of thin air, grossly overstated for most servers. Sure the top 10% of professional servers at $$$$ restaurants can make a very good income. And a typical server can make that at peak hours on a good day/night, but there are more slow hours you’re conveniently ignoring. Lunch shifts are often 3 hours, only about 1-1.5 busy. Dinner shifts may be 5-6 hours, usually very slow the first and last hour. And you don’t get paid in between lunch and dinner. Some days and nights are slower and no one does well - happens all the time. Servers often tip busboys or others. There’s tip pooling. Most servers have no benefits.

There are of wage stats online showing what restaurant servers make, one below. You have no idea what your talking about assuming $30-40/hr. But go ahead, consider yourself an expert...it’s clear you and some others here don’t need any real info to support your views.

Seems to me most servers don’t have a steady flow of customers for their entire shift. So the may make $30-40/hr for a few hours on a weekend, I’m pretty sure the beginning and ends of shifts are not as fruitful. Servers do work hard in many places and dealing with customers is not always easy. I tend to tip well, especially for breakfast and lunch when the bills aren’t as high.

+1.

 

[Music Lover]

Except your pulling your $30-40/hr out of thin air, grossly overstated for most servers. Sure the top 10% of professional servers at $$$$ restaurants can make a very good income. And a typical server can make that at peak hours on a good day/night, but there are more slow hours you’re conveniently ignoring. Lunch shifts are often 3 hours, only about 1-1.5 busy. Dinner shifts may be 5-6 hours, usually very slow the first and last hour. And you don’t get paid in between lunch and dinner. Some days and nights are slower and no one does well - happens all the time. Servers often tip busboys or others. There’s tip pooling. Most servers have no benefits.

There are of wage stats online showing what restaurant servers make, one below. You have no idea what your talking about assuming $30-40/hr. But go ahead, consider yourself an expert...it’s clear you and some others here don’t need any real info to support your views.
+1.

Not out of thin air. All the servers I know (5 or 6) earn $30 - $40k a year in tips alone. Plus wages. None of them work full time and they're all at breakfast special places or chains like Olive Garden. My friend's kid averages over $100 a night in tips working Olive Garden. Small sample, but accurate. I don't know any servers at high end restaurants but they probably make more...especially the ones that work full time.

Do the math. Just ten $60 tables at 20% (what people here say they tip) is $120. Most servers cover far more than 10 tables in a shift.

 

[24601NoMore]

Whether the electrician or plumber in my earlier example has the education training and experience, the service that they performed is not rocket science and certainly would take less than a high school education to perform. If we pay the person for the job performed they would get minimum wage for those jobs.

Wow. I don't even know where to start with that one. You're seriously saying someone with "less than a high school education" can be an electrician or a plumber? Go ahead - hire one of those people to work on your house..hope your insurance is paid up.

My dad was an electrician - and a damned good one. There's a massive amount of training and experience required before you can even get licensed. Not like a restaurant server where the most training you're going to get is how to explain what's on the menu. And far as I know, no servers need to be licensed by the state they are trying to do business in.

Since it sounds like you may not be familiar with the skills, education and experience required to be an electrician, here's a few bits of info..

To become an APPRENTICE electrician..

Complete at least 720 hours of relevant classroom instruction through a state-approved school (can be part of an apprenticeship) Acquire at least 8,000 hours of supervised on-the-job experience from a certified electrician (can be part of an apprenticeship)

To become a JOURNEYMAN electrician..(like my Dad was)..

To become a journeyman electrician, you must complete a rigorous course of education and training in the form of an apprenticeship consisting of between 500 and 1,000 classroom hours and between 8,000 and 10,000 hours (5-6 years) of supervised work experience and on-the-job training.

I don't know a single person who needed to take 720 hours of classroom instruction or have 8,000 of supervised, OTJ experience to get hired as an apprentice server.

So, comparing a server to an electrician or plumber makes ZERO sense IMHO. ANYONE can wait tables - it's not hard. I wouldn't hire just anyone to wire or plumb my house.

And FWIW, most servers will make more per hour than my dad ever did.

 

[doneat54]

Tipping is something my DW and I discuss/argue about often. I could post my views, but I digress. I will make 2 related comments however.


Seems more an more restaurants are adding an automatic 18% tip. This is very presumptuous and I simply refuse to eat at those places.


If I were a wait/server, I would not make it my goal to provide the best service as possible to maximize tip revenue. I would simply work at the place with the highest prices on the menu as tips are based as a percentage of the bill, not the level of service provided. It is no harder to bring a $17 entree to the table and serve, as it is a $38 one.

 

[Midpack]

Not out of thin air. All the servers I know (5 or 6) earn $30 - $40k a year in tips alone. Plus wages. None of them work full time and they're all at breakfast special places or chains like Olive Garden. My friend's kid averages over $100 a night in tips working Olive Garden. Small sample, but accurate. I don't know any servers at high end restaurants but they probably make more...especially the ones that work full time.

Do the math. Just ten $60 tables at 20% (what people here say they tip) is $120. Most servers cover far more than 10 tables in a shift.

You didn’t read my post I guess. And 5-6 servers may not be representative. First you said $30-40/hr, now you’re backtracking to $30-40K/yr. They must be good friends in that you know exactly what they make annually, with separate tip and wage data. Here’s some data for Canada, but if you have something more representative we’d love to see it.

BTW what do your server friends think of your $5 tip for a table of 6 for an hour regardless of tab?

https://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Waiter/Waitress/Hourly_Rate

 

[GenXguy]

Tipping is something my DW and I
If I were a wait/server, I would not make it my goal to provide the best service as possible to maximize tip revenue. I would simply work at the place with the highest prices on the menu as tips are based as a percentage of the bill, not the level of service provided. It is no harder to bring a $17 entree to the table and serve, as it is a $38 one.

That's why I always tip based on what I think the effort and service is worth, completely unrelated to the price of the meal.

I was a waiter for a while 30 years ago when it paid $2 and change per hour. I don't think the position is really worth more than other low paying jobs. And in my state, they raised it to nearly $12/hr minimum for tipped positions. Those menu prices are getting out of hand with these big hikes to minimum wage.

 

[Music Lover]

You didn’t read my post I guess. And 5-6 servers may not be representative. First you said $30-40/hr, now you’re backtracking to $30-40K/yr. They must be good friends in that you know exactly what they make annually, with separate tip and wage data. Here’s some data for Canada, but if you have something representative we’d love to see it.

BTW what do your server friends think of your $5 tip for a table of 6 for an hour regardless of tab?

https://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Waiter/Waitress/Hourly_Rate

They're part time so $30 - $40 an hour is $30 - $40k per year. I don't know any full time servers. Minimum wage here ranges from $11.32 to $15 (including servers), your chart is a little dated.

We (as a couple) normally tip 10% or so in Canada. I see nothing wrong with a $3 tip on a $30, but we do tip higher in the US (15% or so) because of the wage difference for servers. But the 15% has an upper limit....a $20 lunch will get 15% but a $60 dinner will get a little less than 15%.

I haven't been served by anyone I know yet but I'd probably go a little higher just because I know them.

 

[CRLLS]

Wow. I don't even know where to start with that one. You're seriously saying someone with "less than a high school education" can be an electrician or a plumber? Go ahead - hire one of those people to work on your house..hope your insurance is paid up.

My dad was an electrician - and a damned good one. There's a massive amount of training and experience required before you can even get licensed. Not like a restaurant server where the most training you're going to get is how to explain what's on the menu. And far as I know, no servers need to be licensed by the state they are trying to do business in.

Since it sounds like you may not be familiar with the skills, education and experience required to be an electrician, here's a few bits of info..

To become an APPRENTICE electrician..

Complete at least 720 hours of relevant classroom instruction through a state-approved school (can be part of an apprenticeship) Acquire at least 8,000 hours of supervised on-the-job experience from a certified electrician (can be part of an apprenticeship)

To become a JOURNEYMAN electrician..(like my Dad was)..

To become a journeyman electrician, you must complete a rigorous course of education and training in the form of an apprenticeship consisting of between 500 and 1,000 classroom hours and between 8,000 and 10,000 hours (5-6 years) of supervised work experience and on-the-job training.

I don't know a single person who needed to take 720 hours of classroom instruction or have 8,000 of supervised, OTJ experience to get hired as an apprentice server.

So, comparing a server to an electrician or plumber makes ZERO sense IMHO. ANYONE can wait tables - it's not hard. I wouldn't hire just anyone to wire or plumb my house.

And FWIW, most servers will make more per hour than my dad ever did.

No. Please read what I actually wrote. What I wrote was for the job described, it wasn't rocket science. No technical training was required. These are not unheard of service calls. For those described jobs, it wouldn't have taken a journeyman nor even an apprentice to do. I'm not saying that the next job assigned to them would not require the education and experience you mention though.

BTW, I am very familiar with the skills. I have managed design teams and designed equipment that was intended to be installed by electricians. I have also done the testing for and taken these products through UL, CSA and VDE process and received approval from them all. I have authored the installation and operation manuals for the same. I do wire and plumb my own house.

 

[doneat54]

That's why I always tip based on what I think the effort and service is worth, completely unrelated to the price of the meal.

I was a waiter for a while 30 years ago when it paid $2 and change per hour. I don't think the position is really worth more than other low paying jobs. And in my state, they raised it to nearly $12/hr minimum for tipped positions. Those menu prices are getting out of hand with these big hikes to minimum wage.

That's a good plan. I've tipped close to 50% at a breakfast diner when (many years ago!) we took the kids to breakfast, they trashed to place, and they brought us a $22 bill. OTOH, If you bring me a $42 steak entree and I have to ask for a steak knife!?

So at mid to high end places, 15% if you meet MY expectations for service. And bring me and my wife a $170 bill, my expectations were VERY high.....

 

[RobLJ]

I'm sure times have changed, but I'm now suspecting that the DW getting tips at Denny's back in the '80s had
a) a clientèle a couple notches down from most ERT-ers
b) a damn generous clientele (in retrospect).

My father was a minister, so I guess "don't muzzle the ox that treads the corn" is now pretty out-of-date.
(I also suspect that more than a few of you are pretending to be more frugal than you actually are.)
Carry on!

 

[Amethyst]

Thank you. I was quietly fulminating on behalf of my late Dad, a master electrician, with all the training and certs you describe, or their mid-20th-century equivalent. His specialty was high-voltage large-scale construction, particularly city power substations. He performed, and supervised, this work outdoors, in every kind of weather from 95-degree NJ summers to 0-degree NJ winters. He was a go-to guy in his profession; would get called in the middle of the night to diagnose and fix problems (meaning: massive explosions and tens of millions $$ in damage) caused by mistakes made by others with lesser skills. And for this, in his 50's, he had risen to made the equivalent of about $60,000 a year, plus any overtime he could snag. No awards, no bonuses.

(Which is not to say we shouldn't tip table servers. He did).

Wow. I don't even know where to start with that one. You're seriously saying someone with "less than a high school education" can be an electrician or a plumber? Go ahead - hire one of those people to work on your house..hope your insurance is paid up.

My dad was an electrician - and a damned good one. There's a massive amount of training and experience required before you can even get licensed. Not like a restaurant server where the most training you're going to get is how to explain what's on the menu. And far as I know, no servers need to be licensed by the state they are trying to do business in.

Since it sounds like you may not be familiar with the skills, education and experience required to be an electrician, here's a few bits of info..

To become an APPRENTICE electrician..

Complete at least 720 hours of relevant classroom instruction through a state-approved school (can be part of an apprenticeship) Acquire at least 8,000 hours of supervised on-the-job experience from a certified electrician (can be part of an apprenticeship)

To become a JOURNEYMAN electrician..(like my Dad was)..

To become a journeyman electrician, you must complete a rigorous course of education and training in the form of an apprenticeship consisting of between 500 and 1,000 classroom hours and between 8,000 and 10,000 hours (5-6 years) of supervised work experience and on-the-job training.

I don't know a single person who needed to take 720 hours of classroom instruction or have 8,000 of supervised, OTJ experience to get hired as an apprentice server.

So, comparing a server to an electrician or plumber makes ZERO sense IMHO. ANYONE can wait tables - it's not hard. I wouldn't hire just anyone to wire or plumb my house.

And FWIW, most servers will make more per hour than my dad ever did.

 

[tmm99]

I tip well but what really bothers me is that the tip is based off the cost of the meal. The lady at the diner where I spend under $20 for me and DW visits our table more and treats us better than the person at a dinner place where the bill will get closer to $40. Was does the later get twice as much?

I usually tip $5 at the diner and I round down from 20% at the dinner place to even out the bill. If I'm over 15%, I'm comfortable with that unless the service stood out.

Although I worked as a waitress when I was in my 20s, I’m not a good tipper but I agree with you: I don’t get why good diner waitresses should get so little while fancy restaurant waitresses get so much.

 

[tmm99]

I don’t care if everyone else is giving 20%. I’ll keep giving my 15% unless the service is great or the bill is really small (diners, cheap Chinese, etc)

 

[ShokWaveRider]

We had company a while ago, I was "forced" to eat out. As I mentioned previously I would say based on my travel experience the restaurants in our area are average at best, especially for a tourist town. The Bill was $88 for 3. They had the audacity to pust estimates of 18% - 25% and wait for it..... 30% on the check, as samples. They got 15% and we will never go back there. Who looses... I hear complaints from local business' that people are not eating out as much, we wonder why, perhaps average food combined with these kind of tipping expectations may not be helping.

Now conversly, we have a Chinese take out with very basic eat in service, just simple tables. Their food is outstanding, better than a lot of full service establishments, and they do not even have a tip jar. The place is always packed, and they are voted eatery of the year, year after year. That must say something. I usually leave a modest tip ~10%, because they are great, and I want to support their business.

 

[Oakster]

I thought it was 10% for average, 15% for good service. My old boss was very generous and he always tipped 20% and I have been operating that way for some time. I feel generous tipping that amount though and sure thought it was more than standard.

 

[RetireAge50]

I thought it was 10% for average, 15% for good service. My old boss was very generous and he always tipped 20% and I have been operating that way for some time. I feel generous tipping that amount though and sure thought it was more than standard.

If I had to take a guess I bet this is the most accurate statement on the thread.

We rarely go out to restaurants with servers but when we do we usually double the tax as a tip.

 

[travelover]

OK, I've read the whole thread. From now on I'll tip my electrician 20%.