Who changed it to 20%

[Midpack]

(1) We would eat out a lot more if tipping was not mandatory (or expected, may as well be mandatory). We never tipped in the UK/EU or very rarely anyway. We have never understood why the servers are paid this way in the US as opposed to the EU. (2) Restaurants should bite the bullet and pay their hired help properly like most of the rest of the world.

How do you reconcile these two disparate positions? You don’t want to tip, but you think restaurants should increase server pay and eliminate tipping. How do you think restaurants will cover those additional wages?

I am all for tipping, and I was a server in college. But if lots of people aren’t leaving tips (shameful), restaurants will have to increase wages and eliminate tipping. In the meantime, those who don’t tip, are punishing servers - not restaurant owners (except indirectly)...

 

[ShokWaveRider]

How do you reconcile these two disparate positions? You don’t want to tip, but you think restaurants should increase server pay and eliminate tipping. How do you think restaurants will cover those additional wages?

I am all for tipping, and I was a server in college. But if lots of people aren’t leaving tips (shameful), restaurants will have to increase wages and eliminate tipping. In the meantime, those who don’t tip, are punishing servers - not restaurant owners...

I would just rather it was included in the meal price, at order time, not added on after. I do usually tip the mandatory amount WHEN we eat out, which is very rare, but do resent being coerced into doing so, just do not tell or kid me into thinking it is optional. Even in your text you intimidate by adding "Shameful". If tipping was NOT expected it would be different. Then one would not have to or feel intimidated into paying for average or sub par service. That said I also do not like being asked every 5 minutes if my meal is OK. I would send it back if it was not. If my glass needs filling I will ask. Just the way we were brought up I suppose. So we choose not to eat out as places that force us to do things we do not agree with.

 

[REWahoo]

I would just rather it was included in the meal price, at order time, not added on after. I do usually tip the mandatory amount WHEN we eat out, which is very rare, but do resent being coerced into doing so, just do not tell me it is optional. ...So we choose not to eat out as places that force us to do things we do not agree with.

Seems backward logic to me. Having additional $ added upfront to the price of a meal gives me no choice (coercion?) vs. choosing how much, if any, to tip.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Seems backward logic to me. Having additional $ added upfront to the price of a meal gives me no choice (coercion?) vs. choosing how much, if any, to tip.

Not really, I would say it is paying someone a fair wage for a fair job.

It is the American way though and I agree we have to live with it, does not mean I have to like or agree with it.

Another example is Sales tax (VAT), fees etc. being added after the main price of an item. The European way is to see it all included in the sales price, so one knows what one is paying up front. So the price advertised for a TV for example is exactly what one pays. America is fixated on making things look cheaper than what they actually are. But as I said we have to live with it, but do not have to like it.

 

[Music Lover]

Seems backward logic to me. Having additional $ added upfront to the price of a meal gives me no choice (coercion?) vs. choosing how much, if any, to tip.

Is there any special reason why the restaurant industry can't operate like any other business that doesn't rely on tips to subsidize employees wages?

If the food or service sucks I'll just stop going, just like if Random Product X sucks...I'll stop buying it and find an alternative.

 

[Midpack]

Another example is Sales tax (VAT), fees etc. being added after the main price of an item. The European way is to see it all included in the sales price, so one knows what one is paying up front. So the price advertised for a TV for example is exactly what one pays. Americans are [-]is[/-] fixated on making things look cheaper than what they actually are. But as I said we have to live with it, but do not have to like it.

FIFY. You can thank all the dumb consumers. Who can’t figure out sales tax anyway, pull out your phone if needed?

Is there any special reason why the restaurant industry can't operate like any other business that doesn't rely on tips to subsidize employees wages?

If the food or service sucks I'll just stop going, just like if Random Product X sucks...I'll stop buying it and find an alternative.

They can and they may, most already have for larger parties for decades. Some restaurants have gone to zero tipping with higher prices, and it hasn’t been universally successful for servers, owners or customers.

But my beef in the meantime is willfully ignorant people leaving “little” or no tip - punishing good servers trying to make an honest living. That’s flat wrong, and it won’t bring the change you’re advocating.

 

[Music Lover]

FIFY.They can and they may, most already do for larger parties. Some restaurants have gone to zero tipping and it hasn’t been universally successful for servers, owners or customers. But my beef in the meantime is willfully ignorant people leaving “little” or no tip - punishing good servers. That’s flat wrong, and it won’t bring the change you’re advocating.

I get your point, but on the other hand people tipping an amount that brings the server's wage up to 4X - 8X minimum doesn't help either. What's wrong with leaving a tip that brings their wage up to the minimum in the area? For example, a $5 tip for a table of 6 (regardless of meal cost) that was there for an hour could easily make up the shortfall in wages.

 

[Kelor]

We now have bars/restaurants that automatically put a 21% mandatory tip on your bill for the entire staff. They then have a line for just your server. The first time I saw it, I had no idea what to do, and added 10%. The server (who did a lousy job, btw) looked disappointed.

 

[Dtail]

We now have bars/restaurants that automatically put a 21% mandatory tip on your bill for the entire staff. They then have a line for just your server. The first time I saw it, I had no idea what to do, and added 10%. The server (who did a lousy job, btw) looked disappointed.

A different version is when we order with delivery from Doordash or Uber Eats, which is rare, but still...
There is already a service charge which includes tips, but there is still a separate line for tips. I never add any further tip and the delivery person isn't upset, at least at the time of delivery.

 

[Midpack]

I get your point, but on the other hand people tipping an amount that brings the server's wage up to 4X - 8X minimum doesn't help either. What's wrong with leaving a tip that brings their wage up to the minimum in the area? For example, a $5 tip for a table of 6 (regardless of meal cost) that was there for an hour could easily make up the shortfall in wages.

$5 tip on a full service 6 top for an hour regardless - you can't be serious? You have no business in a full service sit down restaurant IF you actually tip like that knowing the wage structure and tipping norms. A decent wage is built in to most other professions, but you know it's not for servers and they rely on tips for the largest part of their income. Shorting servers won't change anything.

And if servers expected to make $7.25/hr after tips in the US, they'd all be working elsewhere. There are much easier ways to make $7.25/hr with more, better hours...

 

[GenXguy]

We now have bars/restaurants that automatically put a 21% mandatory tip on your bill for the entire staff. They then have a line for just your server. The first time I saw it, I had no idea what to do, and added 10%. The server (who did a lousy job, btw) looked disappointed.

So that's a total of 31% in tips. I would consider that unacceptable for them to mandate a high tip along with an expectation of another tip on top of that. I base my tips on what I think is fair for the services performed, not a percentage. And 31% is a high tip which should be given for amazing service or low cost meals, for people who actually use a percentage method to figure tips.

Where I live, which is considered a lower cost living area, minimum wage has been increased to $15/hr, and waiters and waitresses minimums are about $12/hr. This minimum wage hike in already causing a spike in menu prices, which is going to go up more in future years, then there's 10% in state & local sales taxes, then possibly adding 31% in tips beyond that? Add up all those increases and tips. It's ridiculous. Fortunately, the only place I've run into those mandatory large tips is for a large party, which automatically had a standard 15% gratuity added to the bill - you weren't expected to tip on top of that.

 

[Eucerin]

I offer Lunch 15% and Dinner 20%.
Thoughts behind it is that lunch serves simple food such as sandwich or salad; Dinner gets more complicated from salad, soup, appetizer, main course, dessert to sometime liquor, therefore deserves more tip.

Of course, spouse is different. 20%+ regardless.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I don't know. Having to rely on Tips to make ends meet is a lost cause in my books, unless you are a stripper . Why would one choose an occupation where one has to rely on the generosity of others to make ends meet. We all have choices, some use them wisely others do not. I am sure a restaurant who paid their employees a fair living wage would win out in the end, especially if they made it known to their clientele, we would definitely eat there assuming the food was good.

We live in a tourist town, one would think the food would be very good. Most all the restaurants we have tried use too much salt and are inflexible with their meal choices, making slight changes to the menu that is. For example; cooking with no salt, substituting this for that. I would call them average at best. Seems it is all about the profit, getting as many people in and out as possible, as opposed to a memorable dining experience.

I think I am qualified to make these comments as I travelled for work to many different countries as well as all around the USA for over 35 years. I have had some wonderful meals and some not so much.

 

[Music Lover]

$5 tip on a full service 6 top for an hour regardless - you can't be serious? You have no business in a full service sit down restaurant IF you actually tip like that knowing the wage structure and tipping norms. A decent wage is built in to most other professions, but you know it's not for servers and they rely on tips for the largest part of their income. Shorting servers won't change anything.

And if servers expected to make $7.25/hr after tips in the US, they'd all be working elsewhere. There are much easier ways to make $7.25/hr with more, better hours...

$5 for one table of 6 plus all the other tables they have during that hour. I know servers who make $50k a year in tips working part time....not sure that they do anything over and above many other minimum/slightly above minimum wage jobs.

It might be my "responsibility" to top their wage up due to a very poor wage system, but I'm not required nor do I feel any obligation to pay them $20 or $30 an hour. Not when there are hundreds of other jobs that don't pay that much. They're just writing down orders and bringing food to the table...it's not rocket science.

The next thing you know there'll be a tip option at the Walmart checkout...

 

[nhcycling]

In the US I’ve tipped 20% for years and tip more for great/exceptional service.

 

[GenXguy]

$5 for one table of 6 plus all the other tables they have during that hour. I know servers who make $50k a year in tips working part time....not sure that they do anything over and above many other minimum/slightly above minimum wage jobs.

It might be my "responsibility" to top their wage up due to a very poor wage system, but I'm not required nor do I feel any obligation to pay them $20 or $30 an hour. Not when there are hundreds of other jobs that don't pay that much. They're just writing down orders and bringing food to the table...it's not rocket science..

Good point. These higher tips being given could be driving up their hourly wages far beyond what the job is worth.

The next thing you know there'll be a tip option at the Walmart checkout..

Yeah, even for the self checkout lanes.

 

[Sunset]

Does it matter what the minimum tipped wage is? In Michigan for example, it is still $3.50, whereas here in Washington it is $13.50

Yes,
When in Canada, I will tip only 10% as they make $15.00 /hr , just like all the other minimum wage workers that don't get tips, like your grocery bagger.

In USA, I tip 15% normally, unless the are EXCELLENT then it goes up.

For Crappy service, I tip much less, once even a penny, just so they know I didn't forget..

 

[CRLLS]

I am amazed at how many here think that waiting tables should be a min wage position. And determine, or at least justify their tip based on that. All they do is take your orders and deliver the food. That job certainly cannot be worth minimum wage plus a small tip if any at all, is it? That is the feeling that I get reading here. One could say that an electrician whose only "fix" is to reset a breaker switch is not worth more than minimum wage, or a plumber who charges a minimum of 1 hrs labor and simply changes a trap gasket that takes 5 minutes. I wonder what they would think a road worker holding a traffic flag is worth in pay. Imagine how you would feel if you were paid what the public thought you should have been paid during your working years.

I know that the above examples do not include jobs that are typically tipped. But anyone who thinks they know what somebody else's job is worth might take a good look at themselves in the mirror. I guess they never asked for a raise in their lives. Anyone is worth what they can take home.

BTW, not all tips are the servers to keep. There is tip sharing or tipping out at some locations. Those tips, or lack thereof may get shared among the other workers.

OK, I'm off my high horse now.





"Tip pooling" and "tipping out" certainly lower the server's nightly take.

 

[davebarnes]

For Crappy service,... once even a penny, just so they know I didn't forget.

There is that.
We were the only customers in a restaurant in NYC and they forgot about us during their shift change. "Food order? You ordered food?"
1¢ on the AMEX.
How do you miss the only 3 people sitting in your restaurant?

 

[Rianne]

I am amazed at how many here think that waiting tables should be a min wage position. And determine, or at least justify their tip based on that. All they do is take your orders and deliver the food. That job certainly cannot be worth minimum wage plus a small tip if any at all, is it? That is the feeling that I get reading here. One could say that an electrician whose only "fix" is to reset a breaker switch is not worth more than minimum wage, or a plumber who charges a minimum of 1 hrs labor and simply changes a trap gasket that takes 5 minutes. I wonder what they would think a road worker holding a traffic flag is worth in pay. Imagine how you would feel if you were paid what the public thought you should have been paid during your working years.

I know that the above examples do not include jobs that are typically tipped. But anyone who thinks they know what somebody else's job is worth might take a good look at themselves in the mirror. I guess they never asked for a raise in their lives. Anyone is worth what they can take home.

BTW, not all tips are the servers to keep. There is tip sharing or tipping out at some locations. Those tips, or lack thereof may get shared among the other workers.

OK, I'm off my high horse now.

"Tip pooling" and "tipping out" certainly lower the server's nightly take.

+1 Most posts refer to waiting tables. What about hair stylists, Uber drivers, hotel luggage carriers and maids, valet parking attendants, tour guides...etc. I did wait tables in college. I don't care to share what happens to food to poor tippers who frequent the restaurants I worked.

 

[CardsFan]

I am amazed at how many here think that waiting tables should be a min wage position. And determine, or at least justify their tip based on that. All they do is take your orders and deliver the food. That job certainly cannot be worth minimum wage plus a small tip if any at all, is it? That is the feeling that I get reading here. One could say that an electrician whose only "fix" is to reset a breaker switch is not worth more than minimum wage, or a plumber who charges a minimum of 1 hrs labor and simply changes a trap gasket that takes 5 minutes. I wonder what they would think a road worker holding a traffic flag is worth in pay. Imagine how you would feel if you were paid what the public thought you should have been paid during your working years.

I know that the above examples do not include jobs that are typically tipped. But anyone who thinks they know what somebody else's job is worth might take a good look at themselves in the mirror. I guess they never asked for a raise in their lives. Anyone is worth what they can take home.

BTW, not all tips are the servers to keep. There is tip sharing or tipping out at some locations. Those tips, or lack thereof may get shared among the other workers.

OK, I'm off my high horse now.

"Tip pooling" and "tipping out" certainly lower the server's nightly take.

Well said!

It may not be the best system, but it is the system we have.

And, in some ways, not very different from someone who gets a year end bonus based on performance. Except they get their bonus daily, based on that day's performance.

 

[Midpack]

I am amazed at how many here think that waiting tables should be a min wage position. And determine, or at least justify their tip based on that. All they do is take your orders and deliver the food. That job certainly cannot be worth minimum wage plus a small tip if any at all, is it? That is the feeling that I get reading here. One could say that an electrician whose only "fix" is to reset a breaker switch is not worth more than minimum wage, or a plumber who charges a minimum of 1 hrs labor and simply changes a trap gasket that takes 5 minutes. I wonder what they would think a road worker holding a traffic flag is worth in pay. Imagine how you would feel if you were paid what the public thought you should have been paid during your working years.

I know that the above examples do not include jobs that are typically tipped. But anyone who thinks they know what somebody else's job is worth might take a good look at themselves in the mirror. I guess they never asked for a raise in their lives. Anyone is worth what they can take home.

BTW, not all tips are the servers to keep. There is tip sharing or tipping out at some locations. Those tips, or lack thereof may get shared among the other workers.

OK, I'm off my high horse now.

"Tip pooling" and "tipping out" certainly lower the server's nightly take.

+3. There are some proud cheapskates in the world, who know better than others. They’re going to rationalize whatever they want. Too bad their customers didn’t have the option to pay them whatever their customers thought was fair.

There are rote aspects to every job, should we all get minimum wage for those tasks?

 

[USGrant1962]

I am amazed at how many here think that waiting tables should be a min wage position. And determine, or at least justify their tip based on that. All they do is take your orders and deliver the food. That job certainly cannot be worth minimum wage plus a small tip if any at all, is it? That is the feeling that I get reading here. One could say that an electrician whose only "fix" is to reset a breaker switch is not worth more than minimum wage, or a plumber who charges a minimum of 1 hrs labor and simply changes a trap gasket that takes 5 minutes. I wonder what they would think a road worker holding a traffic flag is worth in pay. Imagine how you would feel if you were paid what the public thought you should have been paid during your working years.

...

I agree.

But it is the higher tip arguments that bring up the tipped minimum wage as some kind of justification for "standard" tips going from 10% to 15% to 20% to
So that is where the minimum wage talk usually starts.

 

[Gumby]

There are some proud cheapskates in the world, who know better than others. They’re going to rationalize whatever they want.

If you want to be a cheapskate, just proudly be one. Don't try to justify it. Because the world is still going to judge you, and the rationalizers always come out looking worse.

 

[gwraigty]

I am amazed at how many here think that waiting tables should be a min wage position. And determine, or at least justify their tip based on that. All they do is take your orders and deliver the food. That job certainly cannot be worth minimum wage plus a small tip if any at all, is it? That is the feeling that I get reading here. One could say that an electrician whose only "fix" is to reset a breaker switch is not worth more than minimum wage, or a plumber who charges a minimum of 1 hrs labor and simply changes a trap gasket that takes 5 minutes. I wonder what they would think a road worker holding a traffic flag is worth in pay. Imagine how you would feel if you were paid what the public thought you should have been paid during your working years.

I know that the above examples do not include jobs that are typically tipped. But anyone who thinks they know what somebody else's job is worth might take a good look at themselves in the mirror. I guess they never asked for a raise in their lives. Anyone is worth what they can take home.

BTW, not all tips are the servers to keep. There is tip sharing or tipping out at some locations. Those tips, or lack thereof may get shared among the other workers.

OK, I'm off my high horse now.





"Tip pooling" and "tipping out" certainly lower the server's nightly take.

Agree. I never worked a tipped job, but I spent a few years in fast food service, both as server/cashier and cook. Many customers were wonderful, but others treated us as though we were subhuman or something. If you feel that way about the help, then stay home! I suspect that many people who think those jobs are so easy have never done them.