Will you consider getting married with a prenup?

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I think they're agreeing to whatever the prenup's terms are, which could very well be generous.

I

Absent any other arrangements, a poor person signing a prenup is agreeing to remain poor even after the death of the wealthy partner. This brings up an auxiliary question that could be lurking in the mind of the poor person: "If you really love me, you would be willing to make me rich after your death ..." Ouch! :(

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I don't see the point of marriage anymore. Marriages are so easily undone nowadays that the practice seems both antiquated and worthless in my eyes. So prenup or not, it's a no for me.

+1

For those like me who are not religious and do not intend to have children in the future, marriage has become essentially a financial arrangement. Since Frank and I are both perfectly capable of taking care of ourselves financially, it's a no for us, too. I can understand those who decide to marry for emotional reasons and reasons of commitment, but we feel just as committed to one another now as we did when married to our late spouses. I guess that's an individual thing. Then some people feel that being in this type of relationship without marriage is just plain wrong, and certainly that is a good reason for people who feel that way, to marry.

Living in New Orleans we know quite a few gays and some have married. Others (especially older gays) feel as we do and don't want to risk losing their financial assets, whether due to a divorce or while still married.

Here, it is illegal for hospitals to deny visitation to a significant other due to being unmarried, whether the couple is gay or het. We tested that out when Frank was hospitalized for severe chest pains a few years ago. (Turned out to be indigestion, but the doctors didn't know that at the time.)
 
Sorry, but I'm still wrapping my head around the fact that you've been married 3 times in the past and you still have assets? :)

Mike

Yeah, I don't understand that either. After my second marriage, which ended in a very expensive California divorce, I essentially started over with two teenage daughters to raise by myself, literally no financial assets, a rented apartment with rented furniture, and a 10 year old car. I did have a job, but was turned down for a credit card.:blush: All this at age 50. (and my ex also got 1/2 my meager ARCO pension that was vested)

FIREd posted this above which I find is not the majority case (my bold):
I don't see the point of marriage anymore. Marriages are so easily undone nowadays that the practice seems both antiquated and worthless in my eyes. So prenup or not, it's a no for me.
 
I have been married 48 years and I hope it lasts forever but in the sad event something happened and I would consider marrying again I would definitely want a premarital agreement. Here in NC we have the Uniform Premarital Act that makes them enforceable. I know lots of people who have them. If a prospective spouse were to balk at the idea of a Premarital Agreement then he is not the man for me.
 
FIREd posted this above which I find is not the majority case (my bold):

I took that to mean that it is easy to get divorced, even though it can be financially ruinous. At least, my divorce was financially ruinous! Like you, I ended up with nothing but a junk car and debt to pay off at age 50, and had to recover from that and begin building my retirement nestegg from scratch. I don't think I could do that again now, at age 72 and retired.
 
There could be a problem at death. In many states if there is no prenup a surviving spouse has the right to a certain percentage of the estate of the first spouse to die.

First, the state imposes obligations on married couples that a prenup can't negate.

+1 to both the above. My state is only 1 of 3 that still have dower rights. Specifically in Ohio, this means that a surviving spouse has lifetime rights to 1/3 of real property owned by the deceased spouse. The surviving spouse also has the right to remain in the marital home for up to a year rent-free. The marital home can only be sold within that first year to pay off debts of the estate. If this must be done, the surviving spouse is entitled to fair market rental value as compensation.

A surviving spouse can also elect to set aside the terms of the deceased's will and take their inheritance under state statute, if the statute is more generous than the terms of the will. (Details on the latter depend on if the deceased spouse had children and if any of them were biological children of the surviving spouse.) This can mean a minimum of 1/3 of the probate estate (which I'd guess could be circumvented by using POD/TOD to minimize the probate estate), a $40,000 allowance, and other significant things.

Bottom line, if DH were to pass before me, I'd never consider marrying again. I want what we've built up together during our marriage to go to our 2 kids after our deaths. What we have is pretty significant right now. I'd potentially be looked at as the "nurse with a purse". No thanks.

I don't mean to sound so cynical, but companionship such as W2R and Frank enjoy would be the only arrangement I'd consider because of these laws.
 
I took that to mean that it is easy to get divorced, even though it can be financially ruinous. At least, my divorce was financially ruinous! Like you, I ended up with nothing but a junk car and debt to pay off at age 50, and had to recover from that and begin building my retirement nestegg from scratch. I don't think I could do that again now, at age 72 and retired.

My California divorce took almost 18 months due to the ex not agreeing to any settlement until she got everything known (assets) and some things that were not even actually there.

Also, there was this issue with credit card purchases that kept popping up even though she had agreed, in writing, to stop using credit during the divorce period. I also had to serve her with an additional summons, take her to court, and have the court force her to test for her ability to work and contribute to the raising of the daughters. She blew town right after that and went to Michigan making that effort all for naught. I'm not going to get into what happened after that as it raises my BP.

Yeah, it's SOMTIMES easy to go through the process, but not always....
 
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No direct experience. I broached the subject with my current GF and she said she would want a prenup if she got married, and thinks most marriages should have one. She also said she didn't think she'd want to ever get married again.

I think a prenup would have a better chance if it's reasonable, and wasn't signed under duress. It wouldn't be fair to marry someone poor, have them leave their job since you have enough money, then divorce them later and leave them not only poor again, but without a job or current work experience. Also, springing a prenup a few days or weeks before a wedding, when all plans have been made and everyone told puts them in a bad negotiating position. I'd think it wouldn't be too hard to get that nullified as being signed under duress.
 
What I meant by "easy" has more to do with the fact that divorce has become much more acceptable. Nowadays one is unlikely to be shunned by the community because one walked away from one's marriage so the decision to divorce has to clear a much lower threshold. Hence it "cheapens" marriage as a bond.
 
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What I meant by "easy" has more to do with the fact that divorce has become much more acceptable. Nowadays one is unlikely to be shunned by the community because one walked away from one's marriage so the decision to divorce has to clear a much lower threshold. Hence it "cheapens" marriage as a bond.

+1 !!
 
What I meant by "easy" has more to do with the fact that divorce has become much more acceptable. Nowadays one is unlikely to be shunned by the community because one walked away from one's marriage so the decision to divorce has to clear a much lower threshold. Hence it "cheapens" marriage as a bond.

It has become easier, even "no fault".
To me that means marriage is a choice of commitment rather than a life long prison sentence.
 
Marriage #1 - I had doubts, therefore I went with a prenup. We were divorced within 2 years.

Marriage #2 - I had NO doubts, therefore I did not need a prenup. We will be happily celebrating our 10 year anniversary on April 2nd.

I was able to determine the type of woman that I was marrying by courting her for two years and being a trusting partner. If you do not trust the woman that you are marrying - then don’t get married.

I
 
It has become easier, even "no fault".
To me that means marriage is a choice of commitment rather than a life long prison sentence.

But can we talk about commitment if that commitment can end at any time and for any reason? The question can become quite philosophical (too much so for my simple mind :)). Anyways, to each their own, I'm not judging. I understand why marriage retains tremendous appeal to some.
 
What I meant by "easy" has more to do with the fact that divorce has become much more acceptable. Nowadays one is unlikely to be shunned by the community because one walked away from one's marriage so the decision to divorce has to clear a much lower threshold. Hence it "cheapens" marriage as a bond.
OK, but divorce rates are also down. Marriage rates are also down, so maybe the % of marriages ending in divorce is still slightly up, but it doesn't seem like it's by much, if at all. This graph, along with explanation of how the data was compiled, is from 144 years of marriage and divorce in 1 chart | Dr. Randal S. Olson

marriages_divorces_per_capita.png
 
+1

Frank and I met back in 2000 on an internet dating site. I told him on our first date that I wanted a relationship with no limits on emotional commitment but no marriage, no living together, and no mixing of money or financial assets.

Having heard many horror stories about gold diggers, he thought that was a great idea. :D We both feel like we are too old to start over again from scratch.

We are simply NOT interested in government enforcement of any financial agreements. We just want to be with each other.

A very top notch attorney once told me that all preconceptions aside, there is no such thing as a completely bullet-proof prenup if confronted by a good enough legal team. I tend to believe him, but either way it's irrelevant to me since I have no desire to marry again.

Do you guys still live in 2 separate homes?
 
I was widowed and remarried. We keep all our stuff separate, so there is no problem. Even in a community property state, if the assets are not commingled, there should not be a problem.

Love this option!
 
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I don't have an opinion on whether you should get married, but I do know there are significant potential financial benefits to being married as opposed to simply living with a person. These may or may not apply to your situation. Some of them include:

Spouses are eligible for social security spousal benefits while alive and survivor benefits upon the death of one spouse. These are most relevant if one spouse has a significantly higher SS benefit than the other.

A 401k or IRA has better RMD options when left to a spouse as opposed to a non-spouse.

If you live in a community property state, if you elect to make some of your assets community property, a surviving spouse gets a full step up for the community property. So, if John and Mary each have $100,000 in non retirement assets each of which has a $50,000 basis and they combine their accounts and declare them community property, then upon the death of either, the survivor has $200,000 with a basis of $200,000. Better than $200,000 with a basis of $150,000 which would be the case if they did not get married and left the account to the survivor.

In California, a spouse may inherit a residence's property tax basis from a spouse. This could be a very valuable benefit due to Proposition 13, if one spouse has held a property for a long time.

Many other potential benefits related to employment and insurance.

Sorry but I would like to go on a little rant: I often hear or read derogatory comments directed toward couples that opt for a prenup. When I married my spouse, we had a prenup executed. We got married fairly late in life and will not have children. We each have our own assets that we would like to see go to our own relatives when we are both deceased. With the advice and help of a few attorneys, we put a plan in place to do this by executing a prenup wherein we keep separate property (including our retirement accounts). Our estate plans are coordinated with our prenup such that a surviving spouse can use the assets of the first deceased spouse. Upon the death of the surviving spouse, the unused assets of each spouse pass to each spouse's designated beneficiaries. My point in saying all this is that for us a prenup was crucial to assuring our wishes have the best chance of being executed. Anyone who tells me prenups are useless or taint a marriage is in my opinion displaying ignorance and intolerance. There are many other reasons couples elect to have prenups and my opinion is that as long as a couple is in agreement on the terms without coercion, no one is qualified to pass judgment on their choices.

Regarding the enforceability of a prenup, we were told by several family and estate attorneys that in California it is very difficult to successfully contest a well executed prenup. In California, the standard for throwing out a prenup is that it be "unconscionable", or not have met some statutory requirement such as each side having their own counsel et. al. Now, if one of the parties is a billionaire, or one of the parties is being left with meager resources, the calculus will be different. But if a couple has a prenup executed properly with reasonable terms, it is very unlikely to be contested at all, let alone contested successfully.

Anyway, to the OP, be aware there are some financial benefits only marriage can confer. A properly executed prenup is a legal option to substitute mutually agreed upon divorce terms over the default in your state and no one should feel their marriage is any less if this is elected. Finally, best wishes to both of you whatever you decide!

Thank you for sharing your story! We both agree that a prenup will be a great choice!
 
Sorry, but I'm still wrapping my head around the fact that you've been married 3 times in the past and you still have assets? :)



Mike

There's always hope as long as you work hard, focus, and have determination. All the way up, the sky is the limit!
 
I'm really sorry you went through such a disastrous divorce at age 50.

I guess I was a lucky man that got divorced at 25, 35 and 41!
 
I love your story. I have enjoyed reading all of these posts, since a lot of people think that because you were married 3 times and got divorced it is all my fault.

I'm so glad to hear that you found in your husband your best friend and your life partner to live and share a lot of experiences and memories together!
 
That is an excellent way to communicate your desires. Appreciate that wisdom.







This gives me pause-I am a twice divorced person and yet the second divorce was definitely not my choice while the first one was a mutual decision as we married very young and then only spent half of our married life in the same place (dual military does that). I don't want to think of myself as a 'loser' but I know that could be implied.



I think that's why it's important to be clear about what you want and why while dating. I would not necessarily discount someone who has been divorced twice, however, I would want to know the reasons behind those. One must understand what it was that they contributed to any situation to determine what should change for the next situation (if at all).



To the OP, one way to look at this is you can't take it with you when you die. So, how would you like your assets to be distributed and if you want this new 'friend' in your life to possibly share in your largesse, by how much and will they be able to manage any friction with the rest of your family. I would also ask if they want that. As W2R above, it may not be necessary, but it depends on the people involved.



A little story; I know a lady who was divorced once, widowed once and re-met a guy who had been single his whole life that she had known in high school. Turns out he had loved her all along. He had a terminal condition, but he wanted to marry her because he wanted her to have his assets. He had no other family or they did not need his assets. He just wanted to be able to spend the rest of his life with someone he cared for and provide for her afterward.



So, one never knows.....



Nice story, sweet ending. No need for a pre-nup in that arrangement.
 
Do you guys still live in 2 separate homes?

Yes, right next door to one another. There's about 20 feet between his house and mine. I'm not saying this is great for every couple, but it works really well for us. :)
 
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