Work Situation - Opinions please

[Lakewood90712]

This thread jarred my memory of something that happened to a good friend of mine. She was doing a difficult job really well. She found out something unethical was going on and she reported it (whistle blower). About six months later she was put on a PIP, even though she had always been rated highly. Well, she didn't achieve the state objectives on the PIP and was fired.

She had about 24 years in and really got screwed on her pension.

There is no way she could have met the PIP performance targets since the real reason for firing her was to retaliate for exposing something unethical.

Drifting a little from the OP , But , anyone considering being a whistle blower , you better be 100% squeaky clean yourself AND either be ready and able to retire or get another employer on short notice.

The King (employer)often has the urge to kill the messenger of bad news. It's just the way Kings ( employers) often are.

 

[growing_older]

His background on his "About" page hardly inspires me that he is qualified to give the advice he is giving.

His closing advice is to be professional, and then he drops an F-bomb. I'm not confident that his claims about the legal implications of signing are correct. He does not appear to have a legal background. Nevertheless, I would want to really understand what the PIP said, and possibly have it reviewed by MY lawyer before I would sign such an important and unfamiliar document.

 

[scrabbler1]

Back in the mid-1990s, when I was still working full-time at MegaCorp as a supervisor, we had a re-org which expanded my division's functions and shrunk 2 other division's functions and merged them together. We also added a few workers from those other divisions to compensate us. However, two of our added workers turned out to be their worst ones and both of them, at the time of their next employee review, ended up being put on a 60-day extreme probationary period, kinda like the PIP described here. One of them was in my specific work unit so I was assigned to work with him. I also saw his last performance review (from his old division) and it was the worst one I ever saw.


He was told specifically the things he was doing wrong and what he needed to do to fix them. But in those next 60 days, he kept doing those same things wrong, like he had the words, "Fire me!" taped to his forehead. At the end of his 60 days, I had to recommend to my boss that he be let go. It turned my stomach to have to make a recommendation like that, but I knew it was the right thing to do. I saw the effect his poor work was having on coworkers at his level but could not tell them what we were doing until he was actually told he was being let go and packing his things. He did receive a severance package but because he hadn't been with us for very long it wasn't very big. HR didn't get involved until he was told he was getting fired although they were informed about the extreme probationary period.


The other worker, meanwhile, was also not doing very well. He was in another work unit in my division. He had been with the company for a few years but his problem wasn't being inept so much as being insubordinate. He knew he wasn't go make it through the same extreme probationary period, one he had successfully gotten through once before, I would later learn. But this guy shot himself in the foot when he didn't report to work for 3 days. According to company rules, if someone fails to show up or check in for 3 days, it is considered a resignation so he lost his chance to receive a severance package, one which would have been bigger than my guy's severance package because he was with MegaCorp for several years.


We were also a little concerned this guy, who happened to be black, might try to sue us for discrimination. But because my guy was white and did get fired at the same time, that would blunt a discrimination lawsuit (there was none).


While it was a sad chapter of my career, getting rid of both men did lift a weight off the collective shoulders of everyone in my division.

 

[Spanky]

This thread jarred my memory of something that happened to a good friend of mine. She was doing a difficult job really well. She found out something unethical was going on and she reported it (whistle blower). About six months later she was put on a PIP, even though she had always been rated highly. Well, she didn't achieve the state objectives on the PIP and was fired.

She had about 24 years in and really got screwed on her pension.

There is no way she could have met the PIP performance targets since the real reason for firing her was to retaliate for exposing something unethical.

That's really unfortunate. Our Megacorp has a policy against retaliation and encourages employee to report any unethical behaviors.

 

[2B]

That's really unfortunate. Our Megacorp has a policy against retaliation and encourages employee to report any unethical behaviors.

And if you believe them, you are living in a dream world.

 

[Andre1969]

I couldn't recall hearing of a "PIP" before, but at the same time, the phrase did sound vaguely familiar. Then it hit me...my first employer, McDonnell-Douglas Space Systems, called their annual review the "CPIP", for "Continuous Performance Improvement Process".

So, I'm glad this topic got brought up, so I'll know what's going on if I ever get "PIP'ed"

 

[travelover]

....... We also added a few workers from those other divisions to compensate us. However, two of our added workers turned out to be their worst ones .........

I'm shocked. Surely it was pure coincidence.

 

[travelover]

And if you believe them, you are living in a dream world.

+1. When I hired into MegaMotors, my headcount was tasked to HR for the first 24 months while I did three 8 month rotations in different areas of the company. They told me, "if you see anything being done wrong, tell us right away". On my first assignment, I had basically nothing to do as they had about a half dozen people doing what was a one or two man job, then they would come in on Saturday to collect OT, on the manager's orders.

I was so naive, I relayed this back to my guy at HR. He called my boss before I walked back to my desk and the retaliation began. Thankfully, I soon rotated out of there and I learned never to trust HR, even after I was promoted into management.

 

[athena53]

That's really unfortunate. Our Megacorp has a policy against retaliation and encourages employee to report any unethical behaviors.

The megacorp where I once worked had a "Confidential" hot line for reporting ethical violations. Management was pressuring people in our department to sign off on a value for a very large liability (major impact on earnings) that we believed was too low. Without going into too much detail, this quantity is complex to calculate, requires a lot of judgment and a pretty wide range of values could be reasonable, but they wanted something too far towards the low end.

An employee in our department called the Ethics hotline and reported it. Shortly after that, his boss got a call from the company CEO complaining that the guy had reported it. So much for confidentiality. The employee is still there, I'm happy to say. Shortly thereafter, our sub was sold and the parent company had to take a huge haircut on the sales price because that liability was considered too low by the buyer, even though it was higher than management had wanted to book.

 

[Spanky]

And if you believe them, you are living in a dream world.

agreed - you cannot always trust what they say.

 

[Bamaman]

After working 36 years at a company with acceptable job performance, a large company wouldn't want the negative visibility that a lawsuit would cause. They'll usually offer you a really decent retirement package and send you to the house.

My company overreacted in 2008, and essentially terminated every employee 55 years old and older. It was nothing personal, but they didn't handle the terminations with class. They did offer insurance to age 65, a pay supplement until age 62, a year's severance pay and 5 weeks vacation.

36 years is long enough, actually too long, for any self respecting person to work for a single company. The employee and the employer simply get tired of their "marriage." Ask for a package and go enjoy your life.

 

[Lakewood90712]

After working 36 years at a company with acceptable job performance, a large company wouldn't want the negative visibility that a lawsuit would cause. They'll usually offer you a really decent retirement package and send you to the house.

My company overreacted in 2008, and essentially terminated every employee 55 years old and older. It was nothing personal, but they didn't handle the terminations with class. They did offer insurance to age 65, a pay supplement until age 62, a year's severance pay and 5 weeks vacation.

36 years is long enough, actually too long, for any self respecting person to work for a single company. The employee and the employer simply get tired of their "marriage." Ask for a package and go enjoy your life.

I would strongly disagree with the last paragraph. Although personally in hindsight, I should have changed jobs more often mid career (19 years at mega-corp and 13 years at mega-city)to prevent stagnation, as I never aspired to promote at either place,but that's just me.

Some folks are truly the core of some businesses, are as dedicated as if they owned the place , and enjoy staying at the same employer.

 

[Spanky]

36 years is long enough, actually too long, for any self respecting person to work for a single company.

The longer one stays, the better pension (if applicable) will be.

 

[Bamaman]

I can tell you that our company didn't care about having ultra experienced employees. They simply preferred to have younger workers making less money.

And in these changing times, my company is now trying to run a $15 billion company with outsourcing of some job functions and much fewer employees. And I'm not talking about 10% less employees. I'm talking 70% fewer people.

The timing was great for me. I'm young enough to chase my dreams and financially stable enough to support my hobbies--RV's, boats and travel.

 

[growing_older]

Thankfully, I soon rotated out of there and I learned never to trust HR, even after I was promoted into management.

I have had some good experiences with HR and with management, but I have also had some terrible experiences with untrustworthy HR in cahoots with management, even when I was part of management. There is no getting around that HR is NOT for the purposes of assisting the employees, it is for the purpose of assisting the company with employees.

I still get LinkedIn invitations from the worst of the worst HR directors who regularly betrayed confidences and was involved in covering up several age discrimination actions I know of. I can only assume that this is seen as so much a part of the HR job that she is oblivious to the fact that people affected would harbor ill will.

 

[Spanky]

I still get LinkedIn invitations from the worst of the worst HR directors who regularly betrayed confidences and was involved in covering up several age discrimination actions I know of.

Is it safe to assume that you did not accept their invitations?

 

[Bamaman]

My degree is in Labor Legislation. Had I known how disliked and untrustworthy H.R. reps. were, I might have found a different field of study.

I found you never tell them the truth. You tell'em what they want to hear. And they're not to be trusted as far as you can throw'em.

One of their job tasks is to minimize employee litigation against the company. My boss used to give decent performance reviews to females and minorities--even if they were sub-par. When 3 ladies were passed over in promotions, he was formally threatened by lawsuits. The company paid the three ladies over $250K each for hold harmless agreements. These things happen in the real world.

 

[tmm99]

Does HR usually offer severance when they present you with a RIP?

 

[Spanky]

Does HR usually offer severance when they present you with a RIP?

Severance is normally offered for RIF or layoff but not termination due to poor performance or misconduct.