Would you trade 20 years earlier FIRE for private education for your kids?

[NW-Bound]

What I found interesting is that for a forum frequented by early retirees or ER wannabes, talk about competitive schooling would bring up such an interest.

So, how many of the people here who spend a lot of money for juniors to attend prestigious schools would want to see them dropping out of the work force early, and to follow their footsteps?

 

[youbet]

What I found interesting is that for a forum frequented by early retirees or ER wannabes, talk about competitive schooling would bring up such an interest.

So, how many of the people here who spend a lot of money for juniors to attend prestigious schools would want to see them dropping out of the work force early, and to follow their footsteps?

I hope jr can ER. I paid for an education, not vocational training. I'd jump for joy if he can be successful in life without selling too much of his limited time on earth to traditional gov't or private employers. I already did that and I've told him what a drag it was. I love my son and wish better for him.

What do you wish for your kids NW?

 

[smjsl]

That's a good answer. My older daughter could have attended Standford, MIT, Or CalTech but decided to attend a local state university with full scholarship. However, she plans to attend one of those schools this Fall to pursue a graduate degree in engineering if offered a fellowship stipend. Her chance of receiving one may be touch despite her nearly perfect GPA and GRE scores and internships.

It's very tough to get into a top-10 school graduate program from an average undergrad school even if you have perfect 4.0 gpa and 97% GREs. Apparently admissions in such programs give a very high weight to what they think of the school you come from. (BTW, I don't mean to imply that public school would imply bad "image" - Berkley would be a good counter example.)

IMHO, the reputation of the university attended is not very relevant to one's success in life. Motivation and determination are a lot more important.Many who graduate from top colleges have discovered that are not better off than those who attended their local state universities in terms of pay and career opportunities. They quickly realize that the material they learned in the “ivory tower” has no relevance to the real world.

What I discovered is that at least in engineering field, large companies come up with big starting offers (and actually any offers at all) only for graduates from a small list of top schools. I don't know or have any stats on how much of a boost it gives to overall success in life (and how much it's worth dollars-wise), but it IS a boost.

 

[packrat44]

I went through a Catholic high school and college. But my children went through public high school and college.

Son went the ROTC route while acquiring a BS in Mechanical Engineering. About 2 1/2 years after being commissioned the Air Force put him back in the school house on their dime to receive a Masters in Aeronautical Engineering. Next month he should pin on Major (under ten years).

Daughter graduated high school Magna Cum Laude with a 4.0 and college with a 3.98 GPA. She is research scientist and has completed all her course work for her Doctorate.

Bottom line, I believe if the student is motivated they will succeed well whether they go through a private of a public school. Paying high fees does not guarantee better returns (just like in investing). However, if a student is not motivated, a private school might keep them on course.

 

[deserat]

I went and looked at the ratings of the schools I attended - first there are a lot more schools available now than there were then, so the ratings have probably changed quite a bit. I know that my parents were very diligent about making sure we were in the best school districts possible at the time for our public education. I believe the ratings don't necessarily reflect what they were when I attended - in fact, I know the school I went to were some of the best available publicly at the time.

That being said, genetics, home environment and level of ambition/motivation have a lot to do with how well one does in school. I was fortunate in that there were classes available for me to accelerate through my schooling and have access to classes not normally available to most.

Nowadays, I think the quality of public education can vary quite considerably - it's a matter of access to subjects and teachers of those subject. It's also a matter of having an environment that is conducive to learning. For most of us, we were segregated out by our abilities and allowed to go at a pace that worked for us. There were separate special education classes and vocational classes for those who were not necessarily interested in a profession that required a university education. There was no 'mainstreaming' as I understand it. Times have changed.

I have two stepsons - they live with their other parent and I believe their environment is one in which the expectations are not necessarily strong enough to encourage studying and diligence. One can talk the talk but not walk the walk - and it shows. My husband and I have discussed other options and I believe we may end up with one or both living closer to use in the future ostensibly to take advantage of our life view and opportunities. We'll see. We are too far away now to have a large influence.

How it is playing out is the older son is drifting along - living at home with his mother - blaming the world for his problems. The younger son, who has demonstrated excellent emotional maturity at a young age, still is not studying hard enough to ensure his ability to attend a State U - my husband has told him that he will support him going to a community college and then transferring at the two year point to the State U. His mother says he's a 'good boy' and deserves to go away to college - it's not a matter of deserving, it's a matter of being able to handle the experience and succeed.

Would private school have helped them - perhaps, perhaps not. Unfortunately, the emotional ravages of divorce and control of the children for financial means took precedence over what might have been the best opportunity at the time. I will say that as someone who had straight A's throughout her K-12 schooling (and in what we called gifted classes back then as well), I haven't seen the natural ability nor possibly the overwhelming drive to compensate for any lack in these young men. Life can be very competitive at the higher echelons of anything - one must either be brilliant or a driven SOB and preferably both to succeed in that arena.

 

[MDJO]

Our kids went to a great public school system for k -12, then went on to public colleges. I went to a private Catholic school from 1 to 9, then switched to public schools. I was an entire year ahead of everyone else in my grade when I switched. Attended a small public university for undergrad, then a large university for grad school. Both were good for me.

Somehow we all managed to turn out okay. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. If we really thought private schools would have been better for the kids, we would have bitten the bullet and paid.

 

[lrak]

My kids are 4 years and 4 months so I haven't had to tackle this question yet. However, I'd say the child's tallent, interests, and personality have to come into play.

If the kid is an average student that wants to major in social anthropology, art history, or some other field with low likelyhood of a high paying career directly in their degree field, it probably won't make much difference if they go to state school or the most expensive private school out there.

If the kid is talented in math/science and wants to major in science, engineering, or some other field where the school makes a difference in terms of education and/or job opportunities, I'm all for paying for a top school where their peer group will be other top students in the field and their degree opens doors.

In some states, the state school IS a top school. That's the best of both worlds.

 

[Texas Proud]

Seems like a bit of a contradiction there.

Yes... a bit... but the vast majority of 'us' here with children live in school districts that teach children quite well... and we are not paying tuition to get it..


Even the bad ones will teach students who are willing to learn pretty good..

Now, if you children are not that smart and are not putting in much effort and you live in a bad school district.... then maybe.. MAYBE, a private school would help them to achieve more than a bad public school...

 

[Texas Proud]

I bet you earned more than the $70K from the OP... if you did, then maybe your answer would have changed...

Actually... no I did not... I did not have children when I moved to my old house (it is in the same school district I am in now)... but I chose it thinking that I might get married and have kids... at the time I was making $38K... I did not start to make good money until about 10 years ago... in my 40s....


And there are plenty of houses that someone making $70K or less can afford around here... and even if you make less... there are apartments...


Finally... who in their right mind would spend $20K for education if only making $70K... just does not make sense...

 

[haha]

Our kids went to a great public school system for k -12, then went on to public colleges. I went to a private Catholic school from 1 to 9, then switched to public schools. I was an entire year ahead of everyone else in my grade when I switched.

This was true 50 years ago, and it is more true today.

A Catholic School may be cheaper than a typical prep school or country day school, and except in rare circumstances where the public school does not have to take all comers, or where it is open only to a very affluent neighborhood, the Catholic School will be academically better, but perhaps more important, less likely to get your kid assaulted.

 

[youbet]

Finally... who in their right mind would spend $20K for education if only making $70K... just does not make sense...

OP has already mentioned this is all hypothetical. And, yes, the figures he threw out that his "imaginary friend" would be spending are ridiculous. I think the thread quickly went away from the make believe scenario that OP threw up to a discussion of public vs. private education in general.

So, to go back to OP's unrealistic, hypothetical scenario, would I recommend that a couple with a modest income pay big bux to send their kids to private school when in their case there is no advantage to doing so? Well....... let's see...... thinking ..... thinking.... thinking.... NO! No, I would not make that recommendation.

In my own case, the public HS I attended really, really stunk academically and I was fortunate enough to attend a small, private college that bailed me out. So, that worked for me. In hindsight, it was money well spent and was a big factor contributing to reaching FIRE. Grad school was started at a large, public university and finished at a private school, employer paid.

In my son's case, it was public schools for K - 12 and BS. A private school (paid for by his employer) for the MS. That seems to have worked.

If our local public school system had been as horrific and scary as the Chicago Public Schools I attended were (at least when and where I attended), I'd have gladly paid for DS to attend private school, if a good one had been available, in our circumstances. Don't know if I would have moved to a better school district as an alternative. I'd have to understand how far away that would have been, what the taxes would have been, housing costs there, etc. All unknown and hypothetical at this point in time but certainly a possibility.

I do know I would have been flexible and avoided any stand where schooling had to be public or private "no matter what."

 

[NW-Bound]

I have been off...

I paid for an education, not vocational training...

Well, talk about education, if it is for one to be a well-rounded person, there are other ways to do it than to learn in school, and a lot more satisfying. In fact, looking back, many of the things that I learned and still remember to this day, I learned myself from books. Whatever one teaches himself, stick the best. Often, the school function was to apply pressure for me to crack the books and to memorize some things so I could pass the tests. Yes, I was smart , but also liked to goof off doing my own nerdy things.

My role models when young were inventors like Henry Ford or the Wright brothers. Later, it was the Silicon Valley nerds who built cool things. These people did stuff that were simply not in any textbook.

And a curious point about Ivy League Schools: they are difficult to get in, and the curriculum and standards are higher than other schools. And their graduates would have a higher average intelligence and better knowledge, even at entrance. I would not dispute the above points.

Then, why is it that many of our nation leaders, of all different political inclinations, who were graduates of these schools did not escape name calling, which are mostly degrading and insulting their intelligence? Their credentials are not universally honored. Obviously, being from these schools may not guarantee one any respect!

Ah, I still say one needs a diploma mainly to get a job. The value of it is to open the doors more than anything else. I just wish I had the ingenuity and inventiveness of these geeks that speak for themselves, without needing any endorsement from any institution. But as I was not that smart, and neither are my children, we need something to show.

What do you wish for your kids NW?

I wish for my children to be happy, and that in the pursuit of their happiness, they will not break any laws, violate anyone's rights, do unethical deeds. And same as their parents, because they are not ascetic, they will need a certain degree of material comfort, which requires them to be able to make a living. And in generating this income, I hope they will not have to suffer fools in their workplace. I hope they will get some satisfaction out of their work, to feel some pride in what they produce.

About ER, yes, I hope they will reach FI. But how they get there is important too! I hope they will be able to do it on their own, for their own sake. Yes, even if FIRECalc says that it is likely that I will be able to leave them enough for them to ER, if I can stay as frugal as I have.

I almost forgot this most recent development. My daughter had been working full-time while finishing her accounting degree. Then, she changed to a better job after graduation and her new employer pays for 1/2 of the cost of her graduate study. So, she is taking some legal courses while thinking about a CPA. So, her happiness is now in learning more. This embarkment on a graduate degree was initiated by herself, no pushing from me! And I could not believe that the state U now charges as high as $750 per graduate credit hour, which means more than $22K a year in tuition.

And then, my son recently said that he wanted to get a Master in Engineering also. It appears he liked some elective courses that he had, and that they just whetted his appetite and did not go far enough. No pushing from me here either. And it looks like he is getting an internship at a major government research lab. It was all due to his own initiative too!

I guess our work as parents is about done. I am goin' RV'in.

 

[packrat44]

And I could not believe that the state U now charges as high as $750 per graduate credit hour, which means more than $22K a year in tuition.

Many years ago I complained about paying high tuition at a Catholic college at $35/credit hour for undergrad classes. I believe my grad classes cost slightly more. At least the GI Bill helped with the tab.

 

[Texas Proud]

Many years ago I complained about paying high tuition at a Catholic college at $35/credit hour for undergrad classes. I believe my grad classes cost slightly more. At least the GI Bill helped with the tab.

I got my masters at a Catholic college and the cost was $750 per credit hour back in the early 90s... when I started they were about $500 per hour...

I was on the 6 year program as I needed continuing education for my CPA... so, got an MBA...


WOW... just checked and they have only gone up to $872... wonder if mine included some kind of fee that is not in the above number...

 

[smjsl]

Many years ago I complained about paying high tuition at a Catholic college at $35/credit hour for undergrad classes. I believe my grad classes cost slightly more. At least the GI Bill helped with the tab.

Many years ago my classmates complained about receiving too small of a stipend, "impossible to live on", (on top of $0 tuition) from one of the top universities in the world... I guess it's all about anchoring of your expectations...

 

[verygoodthings]

I feel like I'm a different position in life than most on this board, so I'd like to add my commentary.

I'm 29, and I did not go to college after high school because I had started a business. My two younger siblings however did go to college, of which my parents paid every penny (60k in the one case, 80k for the other). I don't feel that it was worth it for them to steal from their retirement to do this. My siblings could have gotten loans, and the only difference it would have made is they would have had to suffer a slightly less spoiled lifestyle upon entering their first job. The student loans I'm aware of are usually at least a 10 year payoff, and it really just amounts to an extra bill in the budget. The money saved not paying that bill just goes towards a consumer lifestyle, it isn't invested. And even if it were invested, it would be better invested with the extra time allowance in the parents portfolio in the first place.

I think most parents just feel like it is the right thing to do, but I just don't know about it. I think if a kid is not going to go to school on loans, then maybe chipping in or paying for the education is worth it. But in the comparison of a kid taking on the debt themselves vs parent paying, I think its teaching better financial responsibility from an early age.

In my own family situation, I have to see my parents, one 63 and the other 60, with roughly 500k of savings and no pensions. My younger siblings are not going to provide for them if they lose their nest egg in retirement. They are grateful, but they will never "pay it forward".